Author Topic: Experiences with Ivan Kit (Read 6576 times)

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #25 on:** 01 May 2023, 06:23:16 am »

Just halved is fine.

Carbs in/out gets easier every time you do it.

jul1us · « **Reply #26 on:** 03 May 2023, 07:42:42 am »

Thanks, Mike.

Basically the only things left to be done is reinstalling the radiator and syncing the carbs (I already pre-synced them with the steel ball). Unfortunately, ist has been raining for the last couple of days.

I did everything according to your specs, set the mixture screw 4 turns out. In your experience this always works or does it sometimes need adjusting?

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #27 on:** 04 May 2023, 02:19:30 pm »

Hi J,

Neat job with the airbox lid - only just seen your photo. That will work fine.

I'm confident that 4 turns will be good. If you put the bike on a dyno, a tuner might feel the need to make minor adjustment but really, you'd never notice the difference on the road.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts once the job is complete.

jul1us · « **Reply #28 on:** 07 May 2023, 05:49:56 pm »

Today started out going very smoothly. I finally had time and weather was nice so I could finally finish up (or so I thought).

After reinstalling the radiator, I started up the bike and to my great joy, it started on the first press of the starter button.

I let it warm and after pushing the choke back, I synced the carbs with the carbtune pro. It really paid of prsyncing it with the ball bearings, as it went pretty fast and easy but it also showed that syncing with ball bearing alone is not enough.

The engine sounded better and smoother than it ever has. Thanks so much for the help, Mike!

After putting everything else back together (and doing some other stuff in the house), I pushed it out of my yard and wanted to take it for a quick test drive. It started right up but after going only a few meters the engine suddenly revved up really high with out me pulling the throttle. I switched off the bike and after restarting the engine revved right back up.

I looked under the carbs and it was pretty heavily dripping from carb #2.

Going to take out the carbs in a few minutes...

The gaskets for the carb bowls (and most other gaskets and o-rings) were brand new and the carb properly closed. From where could the dripping have come?

I'm guessing it's some connected with the float but it I set it to 14mm and checked repeatedly.

Hopefully, I will find an obvious reason when taking it apart...

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #29 on:** 08 May 2023, 10:12:51 am »

Either a stuck float needle or a leaking float needle valve O-ring.

Before removing carbs, try tapping the affected carb body to see if you can shake the float loose.

jul1us · « **Reply #30 on:** 08 May 2023, 11:50:01 am »

Thank you, after doing some reading last night I thought this would be the case. Very nice to have this confirmed.

I already took out the carbs yesterday, last night I was thinking, I should have tried knocking it first.

I replaced the needle valve o-rings so that can probably be ruled out...

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #31 on:** 08 May 2023, 03:16:40 pm »

Did you fit replacement aftermarket float needles, Julius? If so, that might be the source of your problem. I've had to remove those from a couple of bikes when owners had used them instead of genuine Yamaha parts and suffered issues such as yours.

The spring-loaded plunger in the needle body is slightly different in length - and possibly spring pressure - which makes it hard to achieve the correct fuel level using Ivan's instructions.

jul1us · « **Reply #32 on:** 08 May 2023, 07:28:20 pm »

Funny you say that. I first had put those new aftermarket float needles in but then took them out again when doing the float hight as their spring tension was much higher and this made me doubt them.

Good news, everything seems to be working now.

First thing I did was measure the float hight of carb #2 and lo and behold, the height was way too low, so this was probably the reason for what happened yesterday.

I suspect how this might have happened. I set the float hight by holding the carbs slightly angled standing on it's side. It seems that when carb #2 was on the bottom side, the angle quickly became too steep so today I turned the carbs around so that #2 was at the top.

At that point, I decided to follow Pat's advice and raise the float hight from 14mm to 14.5mm and reset all the floats.

But the fun wasn't over:

After putting everything back together, I started the bike and it immediately revved up to 6000 rpms without any use of the throttle. I quickly switched it back off. I tried a few more times but it was the same. Choke made no difference.

I checked the throttle which was fine and even unhooked the throttle from the tensioner on the carb side. I turned the idle all the way down. Still the same.

At this point I was truly overcome by joy and in my mind composing my next message to you.

The only thing I could think of was the TPS. Since I had switched carbs it sure must have been way off. So I checked the TPS and the display gave me 10.000. I set it to 5000. By now the bike was turned off for a few minutes and when I turned it back on, it ran fine. I just had to set the idle back to the right setting.

I can't imagine the TPS being responsible for this behaviour (as there was also no problem yesterday) but nothing else changed. Any idea what might have happened?

It was about to rain and dinner time came close but I was able to do a 5 minute test drive and there were no issues.

Of course, it hard to really say something as the engine was cold and I didn't revv it higher than 4000 rpms but it definitely seemed more snappy (in a good way) and less "lazy" from low down. I can already say that it was definitely worth it.

Thanks so much Mike, and everybody else contributing to this thread, you were really a tremendous help! I will update again once I can do a proper assessment.

SkidT · « **Reply #33 on:** 08 May 2023, 08:21:45 pm »

Fingers crossed for you Julius that you’ve got it sorted this time. 👍
“Truly overcome by joy”…………I’d have still been looking for the spanners that I’d thrown. 🤗

jul1us · « **Reply #34 on:** 08 May 2023, 09:39:21 pm »

Well, there was a sarcastic undertone in my mind when I wrote that

jul1us · « **Reply #35 on:** 11 May 2023, 09:47:46 pm »

Little update:

Have taken two more rides and the Fazer runs like a dream. The power is always right there from the get go and it really just feels like this is the way the bike is meant to be. There is also a notable increase of power. Was able to go little faster this time and wow, so much fun.

The bike also starts much better and runs smoother.

Really happy I went for these mods.

Hopefully next week I can actually take it out of town...

Thanks again so much!

[Edited to fix the tiny font problem - GrahamM: Moderator]

SkidT · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 May 2023, 04:48:18 pm »

Brilliant. Well done and congratulations Julius, on having a go and finishing the project yourself, in less than ideal conditions.

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 May 2023, 05:24:16 pm »

That's good news all round, Julius. Congratulations on the all the work you've done - hope summer is good where you are to let you enjoy the improvements to the max!

Mike

jul1us · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 August 2023, 11:32:47 pm »

Little update: So far the bike has been running like a dream. It's so much fun and power is just always there! That is until today. Today, I took out the bike for an afternoon of bliss out of town. I gave it everything on the b-roads and the bike was just so sweet and smooth. Power delivery was perfect and I was feeling very appreciative.

After coming back home, it was parked for about three hours until I took it out in the evening for some errands around town. This is when I noticed some stuttering when accelerating, especially when hard accelerating. Something that has never happened before. I think it was especially around 2000 - 3000 and 5000 - 6000. Power was still there and it was fine when going steady or accelerating very smoothly. It revs up fine when I'm in neutral, just stutters under load. It feels like the engine is not getting enough gas.

It's so weird because it was just running so perfectly al the way until I was home, a few hours earlier. It would have made more sense to me, if it happened during the ride and not after.

Carbs are clean (Ivan was just installed a few month ago) and synched, spark plugs are fresh. Exup was serviced. I have only used V-Power fuel so far, so I don't think it's possible that anything gummed up, especially as it was just perfectly running in the afternoon.

Tomorrow, I will check if it's still there (probably will be, I'm guessing) and then check all the electrical connections...

jul1us · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 August 2023, 01:30:56 pm »

Update:

Just took it for a ride and it has become much worse. Power was fluctuating even at constant rpms and it went off a couple of times at red lights. The engine also ran rougher than usual. Standing at idle, it sometimes sounds fine and sometimes not.
I made two videos, a short one with bike running when it’s parked and one with the phone camera in my pocket during a ride so there is just audio.

Here is the one with the bike parked:

https://youtu.be/Vz4nr0bHKRI?feature=shared

And here is the ride (at 30 seconds is the first red light where it goes off a few times). Engine was already a little warm during this ride as I had already gone for a few miles:

https://youtu.be/1lC3a4UeJ2E

When I was stopped at the red light (at second 30 of the video) I also got the exup error (7000) two or three times but it was just for a second. Could all of this just be an exup problem?

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #40 on:** 20 August 2023, 03:57:57 pm »

What a PITA.

First, I suggest assume nothing. New spark plugs can fail, cleaned carbs can still have bits of crud which get dislodged after a few hundred kms use - particularly if you've used all the power!

I'd start by pulling each plug cap in turn to see if the misfire is electrical - ie, plug, plug cap or plug lead.

If you can't pin it down to electrics, start by taking the carb tops off to check that the needles and diaphragms are OK.

Check the fuel filter.

Check the air filter and the air intake.

I don't think it's EXUP-related as a stuck/misaligned valve won't cause those symptoms.

Check electrical connections and earths. Take a close look at the multi-pin connector under the left side of the tank - the one in the rubber boot that you would have moved doing the Ivan's installation.

You are probably thinking to pull the carbs straight away but eliminate other possibilities first.

Good luck!

jul1us · « **Reply #41 on:** 20 August 2023, 04:16:41 pm »

Thank you so much for this thorough reply which gives me a direction forward.

Just to be clear (as I have never done this before, I'm quite okay at following instructions -> installing Ivan, checking valves but I lack experience) when I pull the individual spark plugs, I then just let it run or take it for a test ride? If I just let it run, how will I know if I have found the culprit?

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #42 on:** 21 August 2023, 08:50:53 am »

Do this test at idle on the centrestand. You don't need to remove the plugs. Just pull a plug cap off the plug and see if that alters the way the motor is running. It should be obvious if that cylinder stops firing. If nothing changes, however, it indicates that the cylinder is already failing to fire, so you know which one is giving you problems.

However, before doing any of this, remove each plug cap from the ignition lead and trim 1cm off the lead. Then screw the cap back into the lead. Reason for doing this is that over time, the core of the plug lead corrodes and fractures causing a poor contact and weak spark. With luck, this might be the reason for your misfire. You'll know soon enough ...

jul1us · « **Reply #43 on:** 21 August 2023, 02:19:59 pm »

Good news my beloved FZS is back on track!

Thank you so much for your help, Mike! I really appreciate it.

I had first shortened the ignition lead but that didn’t fix it.

After that I did a couple of things, so it’s hard to say what it was.

What I did:

- I put contact spray on the ignition leads.

- I removed the spark plugs and tested them with a volt meter.

- Some of the spark plug gaps were slightly big so I adjusted the gaps.

- The rectifier plug seemed fine but I cleaned with contact spray and a brass brush.

So, I really don’t know what it was but happy, it’s running again!

SkidT · « **Reply #44 on:** 21 August 2023, 03:16:05 pm »

Well done Julius for getting it sorted. Fingers crossed for many more trouble free miles.

[/size]Good to see you’re still loitering on these pages Mike, sharing your wealth of knowledge as ever. Hope you’re keeping well. 👍

jul1us · « **Reply #45 on:** 21 August 2023, 04:06:32 pm »

Haha, it seems I rejoiced to soon.

So now, it was mostly running perfect but there was a slight bit of stuttering a couple of times which seems to indicate that I fixed it but not 100%.

Is it perhaps possible that the spark plug caps are somehow corroded or not 100% okay?

Also, in my case the plug don't screw off from the ignition lead but can just be pulled off.

The day it went bad was a really hot day and I was keeping the revs really high so I am thinking it was caused by heat?

Also, this is a picture of the rectifier plug:

https://i.imgur.com/He0hafK.jpg

Would it be visible if there were something wrong with it?

Edit: I just measured the resistance of the spark plug caps. All but the cap of cylinder 3 had around 9.6 kOhms, the cap of cylinder 3 had 11.6 kOhms. Could this be the reason?

Will take it for another test drive now...

jul1us · « **Reply #46 on:** 21 August 2023, 07:31:35 pm »

So, I took it for a test drive. The first 15 to 20 minutes it was almost perfect, only three or four misfires in total, hardly noticeable.

After that it deteriorated rapidly and now I'm back to square one.

I'm now wondering if it's actually the spark plug cap or what else it could be.

Edit: This is what someone in the German forum wrote to my initial question:

"This sounds like voltage problems with the ignition system. The exup fault could be a side effect. An exup fault will not cause the engine to stop.

I would start by investigating if the 12V is coming clean to the ignition. A simple bulb on the 12V supply side of the ignition coils may give some initial clues.

Second important thing is the starter relay and all its little switches. This can also block the ignition. To rule that out you can temporarily replace the relay with wire jumpers.

What I have also seen are cracked plastic housings of the ignition coils. There the spark jumps directly to ground. But this can only be seen in total darkness."

unfazed · « **Reply #47 on:** 21 August 2023, 10:06:39 pm »

Looking at this it sounds

1. like and Air leak on the intake

2. a plug cap or two gone high resistance

3. Fake NGK Spark plugs
For the air leak, check the Vacuum take off caps, the intake manifolds are seated correctly and the rubbers from the air filter are seated correctly
Thankfully the plug cap can be dismantled, they can corrode internally and the 10kohm resistor which is a carbon resistor can go high resistance. Unscrew the the plug holder in the cap and you should have the screw section the resistor and a spring. The Base the spring sits on inside the cap needs to be cleaned, I usually clean it with a long very thin sharpened screwdriver as this is the easiest option. The spring may also be corroded and needs cleaning with wire wool or something. Finally I replace the resistors with those from faulty NGK plug caps as these are wire wound and stainless ends. Thses are only 5kohm but it is not a proble as they are only to prevent interference Yes NGK plugs also suffer from internal tarnishing which can send the resistance in the high megohm range and screw up the spark. I have come across plenty of them, the latest was last Saturday on a 2002 Triumph Bonneville 800, broke it open in front of the owner to prove it. At least the NGK caps are a lot cheaper than OEM even if you need to break open a new one for the resistor. when finished cleanin off all the corrosion put them back together.

Fake NGK plugs can be difficult to detect but close inspection will show poor printing, engraving and sealing washers. Only way to avoid them is to buy from a reputable source. Very risky buying ones at knock down prices

jul1us · « **Reply #48 on:** 21 August 2023, 10:26:28 pm »

Update: What I had completely forgotten: I have a lithium battery with charge indicator, and it was all the way down this morning, whereupon I charged the battery for half an hour (not longer, because I wanted to test then).

After that, the Fazer ran better for about 25 minutes and then got worse again (as described above).

Now I just went down and measured the battery with the bike turned off: 13.48 volts and when I start the engine it is only 13.51 volts. Does that mean the rectifier or the stator are gone and would that also explain the engine problems?

Tomorrow I will repeat the test and rev up the engine which I wasn't able to now because of my neighbors.

Thanks, unfazed! These are great tips! Do you think that 11.6 kohm is too much for a plug cap? (One is at 11.6, the rest at 9.6)

I don't think the spark plugs can be fake as I bought them over the counter at Germanys most reputable motorcycle dealer (Louis).

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #49 on:** 21 August 2023, 11:26:41 pm »

Don't you just love random faults? No, didn't think so ...

With Unfazed on the case you're in the best hands but a few thoughts from me:

Plug caps shouldn't just pull off the lead. It should be a really secure, screwed-in connection. This sounds suspect to me.

Also, it sounds like you have a battery voltage drop issue - potentially not charging - which could explain why it ran fine for a short while after you boosted the battery, then started misfiring as the battery voltage dropped.

The contacts inside the rectifier plug look fine but have you inspected the cables where they enter the connector block? Look for signs of overheating or other damage.

You haven't mentioned if you checked the earth connections. Many intermittent electrical faults have their root in dodgy earths.

A useful thread on replacing the reg/rec connector block to eliminate that as a cause/future source of problems

http://www.fz1oa.com/eskortsdefectiveconnectorreplacement.shtml