Author Topic: Low RPM cough cough.... (Read 9105 times)

anutz · « **on:** 15 February 2015, 05:14:49 pm »

Hello,

This is my first post...

Recently purchased a FZS600 from a private seller, 2001 model with 17,000 miles, very nice condition. Have not been on a bike since 2004, and even then that was for 2 months to get my license...

Anyway i took it slowly, did a back to biking lesson or two on a SV650, then have put about 300 miles on the Fazer over the past few weekend and am enjoying it greatly...

One issue, at low RPM, especially in 1st and 2nd it seems not too happy, it might be me or it might be the bike...i have no idea!

For example i have friends who can let the clutch out in 1st and coast, i don't know if i should be able to or not..but if i do that it wants to cut out, no matter how gentle, it WILL roll forward and keep going but its not happy

So my questions is, the Fazer, do you find it a little touchy at low RPM, roundabouts etc...have had a local bike mechanic say it may well be blocked Jets...

As i am sure you can tell - i am no motorcycle engineer/mechanic so constructive comments please!

Anutz

darrsi · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 February 2015, 05:49:26 pm »

From personal experience rough running at under 3000rpm was sorted out with a carb balance.

A dodgy or misaligned Throttle Position Sensor can make it a bit ropey too. (TPS)

Use the search function to see how to check a TPS, I've explained it several times on the forum, it shouldn't be hard to find.
It's very simple and quick to do once you know how.

Paulfzs · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 February 2015, 06:56:31 pm »

Quote from: darrsi on 15 February 2015, 05:49:26 pm

From personal experience rough running at under 3000rpm was sorted out with a carb balance.

A dodgy or misaligned Throttle Position Sensor can make it a bit ropey too. (TPS)

Use the search function to see how to check a TPS, I've explained it several times on the forum, it shouldn't be hard to find.
It's very simple and quick to do once you know how.

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,91.msg160372.html#msg160372

unfazed · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 February 2015, 10:09:37 pm »

Compared to the SV650 the Fazer 600 would generally not have enough torque to trundle around at idle without slipping the clutch.

As said in previous post carb balance and TPS setting will help and set the idle speed to 1200rpm

anutz · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 February 2015, 08:45:43 am »

All....

Thanks for the useful input...

Agreed it might well be slipping the clutch will be needed for low end work...and i am getting used to doing that now purely as its the way i manage right now...

I have a carb balance kit on the way so will see what that shows up...then check the TPS....

Thanks again

Anutz

Paulfzs · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 February 2015, 12:53:58 pm »

Quote from: anutz on 16 February 2015, 08:45:43 am

All....

Thanks for the useful input...

Agreed it might well be slipping the clutch will be needed for low end work...and i am getting used to doing that now purely as its the way i manage right now...

I have a carb balance kit on the way so will see what that shows up...then check the TPS....

Thanks again

Anutz

i have carb balance kit on the way too so thought id check tps now and it was out

dont forget you need some kind of funky screwdriver bit to undo it.

anutz · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 February 2015, 05:00:17 pm »

did you notice any difference with correcting the TPS?

Yep i have a Torx set so should have something in there to do the job...

Should be an interesting evening when it gets here....hopefully i dont make it worse

Paulfzs · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 February 2015, 05:07:03 pm »

Quote from: anutz on 16 February 2015, 05:00:17 pm

did you notice any difference with correcting the TPS?

Yep i have a Torx set so should have something in there to do the job...

Should be an interesting evening when it gets here....hopefully i dont make it worse

ive not taken it out since doing it, only problems i have with mine is no power under 5k-6k and full throttle bogs out a little

darrsi · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 February 2015, 06:34:35 pm »

Twice now I've had the bike feel not quite right, with a jittery feeling about it, and both times the TPS were breaking down.
They didn't just die, they can misbehave for a while and give you dodgy readings or error codes.
It's hard to explain but I do know the signs now, and both times I replaced them it sorted things out.

As a start though, if it is in the wrong position, put it right then check it again in a week or two and see if it's still where it should be.

If it really does peg out on you then the error code will appear anyway.

anutz · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 February 2015, 09:52:32 pm »

OK so i checked my carbs, i had to verify the pressures on the 1 and 2 carb, then the 3 and 4, they were all withing 10 so all look ok, i did not go further and adjust, even the balance between 1 and 2 to 3 and 4 was within 10, averaging all between 220-230. Will post some pics, i did not take the tank off but just removed the bolt at the top near the handle bars, then used a pulley to hold the tank up pivoting it, did not need to disconnect hoses etc...HAD i had to adjust the carbs i may have needed to do that...which with no assistant would have been tricky!

Will check the TPS next....

anutz · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 February 2015, 09:59:50 pm »

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Ebme Geek · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 February 2015, 11:30:33 pm »

Sorry to say this, but you have read your gauges the wrong way around,
and the divisions are 25 so half a division is 12.5, quarter of a division will be 6.25 ....

Not being too picky going from a picture, they read
1) 187.5
2) fraction more than 1
3) 162.5
4) 175

I would also advise that before you trust the figures check your gauges, an easy way is if you have some fish tank air hose and T pieces, T them altogether and then run them all off one intake, if not, try them all in turn off the same intake and make sure they all read the same, dont necessarily trust them just because they look the same at zero.

You may have sossed this bit, but while you are taking the readings you should be able to see the needles ticking slightly, if they come to a complete stop you may be getting a bit of sticktion and get a faulse reading.

When I did mine I shoved a thick wodge of rags over the storage area, took out the rear tank bolt, span the tank around, sat it on the rags and bungied it down so it could not fall off.

Hope that helps
Steve

anutz · « **Reply #12 on:** 20 February 2015, 08:44:01 am »

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the post, i need to sit down and look at this again - last night i was just happy to have got the fuel tank propped up and the vacuum port covers off.....nightmare...would rather ride it with square wheels....

So based on your post ( and some time on Wikipedia! ) i shall have a look tonight/weekend...

Thanks again

anutz · « **Reply #13 on:** 20 February 2015, 10:11:10 am »

Question,

Lets assume for a minute the measurements are correct, and the carb sync tool is calibrated ok...

The Fazer Service Manual states the pressures should be between 230-250mm

SO mine seem well down....and potentially would explain its hesitancy and also roughness....

Has anyone else measured their pressures or now what they should be...

I have also been advised to clean the air filter as that alone if its old and clogged up will cause issues

Thanks

Punkstig · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 February 2015, 11:27:07 am »

Quote from: anutz on 20 February 2015, 10:11:10 am

The Fazer Service Manual states the pressures should be between 230-250mm

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong but after adjusting the carbs to be within tolerance of each other you'd then just use the idle screw to bring all of them up to between the 230-250 recommended pressure!

anutz · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 February 2015, 09:14:30 pm »

Was looking at this thread...seems to indicate all 3 screws need altering

http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=12939.0

Not sure...

caretaker62 · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 February 2015, 08:51:58 pm »

hi all read this post with great intrest,have a 12,ooo mile fzs fazer 2001 i have owned the bike i year and it has always seemed slightly wrough in 1st gear the bike has just had a full service no improvment, when the bike is at idle and i open the throttle very slowly it seems to grumble ,in traffic i have to apply quite a bite of throttle in first and slip the clutch a lot when moving of. i will have the carbs ballanced,but can i check the tps first and is the wright way to do this 1st ignition on 2nd diconect tps 3rd see the reading,if its ok plug it in and turn of igniton. if the reading is wrong reset tps then plug it in and turn of ignition, sorry to go on im new to all this but im keen to learn . thankyou so much ct62

anutz · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 February 2015, 09:15:50 pm »

hi,

I am starting to wander if its just something we have to learn to handle....but will see how mine behaves once the carbs are set to the correct pressures, mine are all down now about 50mm

But your description is exactly how mine behaves....

Also i need to change the air filters and plugs, and check TPS so once that's all done i shall re-evaluate

For now i manage - at least when its on faster roads its a pleasure

When i check my TPS i shall post what process i follow

darrsi · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 February 2015, 09:51:46 pm »

Check the TPS before and after balancing the carbs, and when doing the carbs the engine should be warmed up.

caretaker62 · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 February 2015, 05:35:29 pm »

Hi folks could someone tell me is there a way to unplug the tps,i pulled and halled but it does not want to move ,i am aware if i pull to hard i may break it ,its very stubborn. is there a way to do it 2001 fazer thankyou ct62 HOORAY whatched the video and seen how it comes of ,tested tps all ok set at 5000 next carb tune ,this site is GREAT so many helpfull people and tips thanks all ct62

darrsi · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 February 2015, 07:34:10 pm »

Quote from: caretaker62 on 22 February 2015, 05:35:29 pm

Hi folks could someone tell me is there a way to unplug the tps,i pulled and halled but it does not want to move ,i am aware if i pull to hard i may break it ,its very stubborn. is there a way to do it 2001 fazer thankyou ct62 HOORAY whatched the video and seen how it comes of ,tested tps all ok set at 5000 next carb tune ,this site is GREAT so many helpfull people and tips thanks all ct62

Had a little chat there on your own?

I normally use my ignition key, it seems to fit perfectly to undo it.

caretaker62 · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 February 2015, 07:49:21 pm »

if you own a motorcycle you soon find out the bike doesn,t always listen , just like me

thanks for the help GREAT site even for us novices ct62

unfazed · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 February 2015, 10:29:04 pm »

A quick note on balancing the carburetors

Do not worry about getting the vacuum Hg figures the same as the book, it is far more important that all the gauges read the same.
All gauges reading the same means the throttle butterfly valves are now synchronised the present engine condition.

The figures in the book often have the idle speed, set to high or to low depending on the type of gauges used, weather/temperature, height above sea level and/or engine wear.
It is the setting of the idle speed at the factory in factory conditions,

not the conditions most owners have in the man/woman shed and definitely not the conditions in my garage.

Set the TPS after setting the Idle speed.

anutz · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 February 2015, 03:38:00 pm »

All,

Anyone give me an idea as to if this is normal behavior...

In Neutral on the center stand....i twist the throttle all the way open and it struggles to hit 7500rpm....even if i twist more....

Anutz...

darrsi · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 February 2015, 03:57:21 pm »

Quote from: anutz on 26 February 2015, 03:38:00 pm

All,

Anyone give me an idea as to if this is normal behavior...

In Neutral on the center stand....i twist the throttle all the way open and it struggles to hit 7500rpm....even if i twist more....

Anutz...

No, it should rev as high as you want it too, way past 7500rpm.