Author Topic: gen 1 Misfire (Read 9004 times)

bwizz · « **on:** 05 September 2014, 04:24:52 pm »

Out on a gentle ride with chick on back today, I had to abort my ride after a serious misfire developed.
I managed to get back home and started to investigate, I quickly narrowed problem to number one cylinder . I changed plug , no different, I hung a spare plug onto number one lead this seems to have a good spark, starting to look serious. anybody got any tips on likely issues. seems a compression test is a next step ,starting to sweat!

Dinger1962 · « **Reply #1 on:** 05 September 2014, 04:34:40 pm »

try spraying lots of wd40 or similar around no 1 inlet manifold rubber as it may have cracked and you are drawing air i had similar problem its an easy cheap test --good luck

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #2 on:** 05 September 2014, 05:51:18 pm »

First, don't sweat. Compression testing and all that implies are a long way off!

By all means check the intake stubs but even heavily cracked ones tend to stay air tight.

I'd start by taking off the plug cap, cutting 1cm off the lead and refit. You could have a poor contact between lead and cap, which you might have inadvertently 'made good' by your plug testing.

Consider also a fuel-related misfire. If the float needle seat O-rings start to leak, you can get a rich misfire on the affected carb.

What's the year and mileage of your steed? Ridden regularly? Any recent servicing or mods we should be aware of?

Mike

bwizz · « **Reply #3 on:** 05 September 2014, 08:21:45 pm »

Thanks for imput guys , carb stubbs are sound, bike has done around 33000 . It is ridden infrequently . its an 05 ,around 10000 miles since I did the ivan mod+boots+ ignition advance+ air pump removal. always garaged. seemed a good spark whilst the spare plug was hung on the no1 lead " with engine running". reconnected still missing on no1. Not done any more yet

bwizz · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 September 2014, 09:01:36 am »

I have taken approx 1 cm from no 1 plug lead , also checked the no1 carb diaphram . that is ok . its goana be fiddly to get the float chamber of . is there anything else I should check before trying. do this ,faulty coils act up like this.? "engine clears above 3000 revs

solorider · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 September 2014, 11:08:24 am »

Have a look at the plug cap itself, on mine I had a low running issue which was fine above 3k, the problem was the pin inside the cap had corroded, I have gone the individual coil route so no more plug leads on my bike.

bwizz · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 September 2014, 01:02:27 pm »

Whats the individual coil route ? I did not know this was an option on a gen1. the plug cap looked ok but i'll double check

solorider · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 September 2014, 01:35:33 pm »

Quote from: bwizz on 16 September 2014, 01:02:27 pm

Whats the individual coil route ? I did not know this was an option on a gen1. the plug cap looked ok but i'll double check

It is a mod using stick coils off a honda cbr600, some kawasakis and suzukis, may the later FZ1 coils will fit depending on the resistance.

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 September 2014, 03:08:16 pm »

You might find this link helpful:

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59207

The float needle seat O-ring problem requires carb removal to fix. Do all four carbs while you're at it.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103599&highlight=found+carb+failure+mode

'Ridden infrequently' always makes me suspect the pilot jets.

You've probably thought this yourself but just in case. Good spark with spare plug but not when plug lead reconnected to the plug in the head ... have you changed those two plugs over?

bwizz · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 September 2014, 05:36:43 pm »

Yes Mike I swapped plug and the fault stayed on no1. Gonna get a compression test at a local bike dealer then if thats ok I'll check the carbs. looks possible to get a float bowl of the no 1 cylinder at a pinch ? engine does not smell rich though despite the missfire

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 September 2014, 06:15:09 pm »

It's not the float bowl access that's the issue, it's the O-ring which seals the float needle seat and you can only work on that with the carbs on the bench.

Besides, if one has failed then the others won't be far behind. I suggest you plan on changing all four O-rings as a precaution, even if the fault turns out to be something different.

bwizz · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 September 2014, 07:25:46 pm »

I checked supplied links thanks Mike ,Neither really fit my case .I took the bike to a local dealer for a compression test . no1's ok so thats a relief. also got the plug end cap checked for resistance, bike does not smell rich and even ticks over fairly well. I don't get a fuel feeling about this issue,On the short ride to the dealers it felt like maybe there is another cyclinder coming and going. so maybe a dicky coil or associated wiring. A local breaker has a coil so wortha a try

bwizz · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 September 2014, 04:20:05 pm »

Getting to the point where i'm stumped. I got a coil from a breaker from a kawasaki but similar.Fitted it, Engine started up nicely and ran cleanly whilst in nuetral . once round the block and its misfiring on more than one . I took out the number one plug that was previously black now its clean. started again cleanly round the block ditto. seams like some sort of ht breakdown .
In the interim I went to the local garage to get some petrol, bike would not re start. call out RAC , he check sparks , nothing dead, Then just as mysteriously restarted
.This has happened twice before so the issue may not be related. but now back home bike starts but still the missfire issue. seems I need to get a Fazer coil, then that is one unknown quantity
out of the equation. any more ideas guys before I book it in somewhere

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 September 2014, 04:28:31 pm »

Have you checked all the earth connections and the white connector block, left side, under the tank?

Also, give the ignition switch and the Run switch a thorough flushing with WD-40.

Both these are known causes of electrical issues on the Gen 1 and while they might not seem obviously linked to your symptoms, best eliminate them first before buying new coils and so on

bwizz · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 September 2014, 04:57:53 pm »

I did not know of a white block under tank being an issue. I repeatedly flicked the kill switch and the side stand . the RAC man wagged everything in sight under seat and behind side pannels
He certainly removed and refitted the cdi unit plug. But It seemed to restart with non of these being at issue. I'll give it a go with WD when the stress level has gone down a bit. Good stuff WD ,used it for years. Thanks for imput Mike.

bwizz · « **Reply #15 on:** 28 September 2014, 03:22:28 pm »

Calmer today , I took tank of and pulled apart the white block and another black one. lagged everything in sight with WD "thanks Mike"!. Bike seems to start better. So hopefully cracked the sudden death syndrome. I need to change the coil though, as the first issue was on no 1 cylinder , its better now but still not 100%. What does the white terminal block connect up?
Thanks all, great forum!

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 September 2014, 07:58:16 pm »

The issue - and cure - with the white terminal connector is covered here:

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/eskortsdefectiveconnectorreplacement.shtml

bwizz · « **Reply #17 on:** 28 September 2014, 09:24:50 pm »

OK ta interesting
Had another short ride tonight , started of fine running nicely on all four. came back with with cylinders coming and going, I've not taken a plug out yet, but now there is more than one cylinder playing up. seems a ht issue.

brooker81 · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 September 2014, 09:23:43 am »

My dad had the same issue on a ride out. Turned out 1 of the leads had a tear in it. Changed all 4 problems solved. Hills Breakers still have 1 set for the gen1 thou as well.

here. £36.

http://www.hills-bikes.co.uk/yamaha-fzs-fazer-1000-2001-2005-coils-p-49053.html

bwizz · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 September 2014, 11:08:37 am »

Ta but I've a new coil and coming with leads for 2 cyclinders £20 new .E bay ! If that don't fix it I'm out of ideas.
brian

stu1318 · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 September 2014, 05:46:16 pm »

my bike did the same yesterday.....out a run and I thought right ok time to open it up a bit.....the first ive had it over the ton mark then a felt it slow then catch again
then when a slowed down to bout 30 40 then open the throttle again it would shudder kinda like going onto 3 cylnders
was down at it earlier and started it up seems fine but theres deffo a flat spot low down any ideas.....sorry to hijack the thread

slappy · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 September 2014, 06:05:06 pm »

When I had my gen1 I had similiar cutting out and misfiring at speed and cut the ht leads back, cleaned all the connectors up, even drained the float bowls to see if there was any muck inside and changed the fuel filter.
I then found the cause by pure luck, I was mounting my camera and the engine was running and I just nudged the ignition key with my hand and the engine cut out. The ignition barrel was that badly worn the key was loose.
I temporarily solved it by by slightly bending the key until I got a second hand ignition unit, which I found a right twat to fit!
It might be worth just checking yours out.

stu1318 · « **Reply #22 on:** 29 September 2014, 08:28:58 pm »

A really don't think that's the problem with mine I'm going to get plugs first an try that

lee2475 · « **Reply #23 on:** 29 September 2014, 08:56:44 pm »

Cdi unit maybe if coils and leads fail? Isn't there anyone close by you could borrow?

bwizz · « **Reply #24 on:** 29 September 2014, 09:39:50 pm »

It crossed my mind that it might be the cdi unit, but I'll wait till coil comes before I do anymore. A local dealer has a thou so he might be minded to traspose bits over . i've no illusions that a main yamaha dealer would cost me a packet ,
Ignition barrel is ok I think . the key fit is good anyhow.