Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: Tim270 on 28 July 2019, 01:43:45 am
-
Hello gents!
Looking for some guidance.
I have a 1st gen 2005 fazer 1000. 30k on it, completely stock apart from a slip on.
Having a big problem since I got the bike, the front end is constantly bucking and juddering. Feels like having a chain with a bunch of hard spots in it(not the case), but I am pretty positive its the front forks. They cant seem to keep up with any small bumps in the road at all and giving a really jerky ride.
I have changed the oil (to 5w) and it helped a fair bit, but going softer on all the settings made it so divey during braking I had to adjust it back to being harder (and back to reacting to every tiny undulation in the road). When I rebuilt them, the fork caps had a bunch of witness marks somehow (??). The fork travel felt notchy at the top of the stroke pumping them by hand.
(http://[font=Verdana][size=78%][url=https://puu.sh/DH7dJ.jpg]https://puu.sh/DH7dJ.jpg[/url][/size][/font])
Is it worth rebuilding the stock forks with new bushings, or just bite the bullet and move to the R1 front end? I cant decide to if its worth throwing money at the stock setup to try and fix it or just move to new forks.
Any input would be much appreciated. Bike is intended for touring, It is basically a boneshaker even over smooth tarmac, throwing me out the seat over any serious pot holes (coming the conclusion to move to a better rear shock.) Im about 11 stone/70kg with gear if it helps.
Cheers!
-
Sounds like to much compression damping, try these as a base setting and work from thereFront: drop forks 5mm through yokes.
Compression: five turns back from max.
Rebound: six turns back from max.
Preload: maximum.
Static sag: 24mm.
Rear: compression three turns back from max.
Rebound: maximum.
Preload: 10mm of static sag
-
I just got mine sorted, it was dangerous . Had the forks rebuilt with stiffer ktec springs by bikerz in stoke. Firm but comfortable. Fitted early bronze s1000rr shock, easy job, and it’s awesome now. Rear is an inch higher too
-
General rule: the longer you're keeping the bike the more you should consider investing in the suspension.
Plenty of rear shock options all over this website.
Forks - if you stick with the standard compression / rebound damping units and standard springs, the front will never feel great no matter what way you twiddle 'em. There's the cheapo RavenRider fork mod but it sounds like your issues are coming from the damping as opposed to the fork springs.
Hyperpro springs and 2.5w oil (with reduced air gap of 130ml) is the best cheap option for the standard forks: probably £150 about but with 30k up on the clocks you might also need to replace the bushes & seals - more like £225.
If you spend more money you can go Racetech dampers & linear fork springs for around £400 (if you fit them yourself) or £600+ for or Maxton to re-do your forks. Disturbingly, Maxton appear to mod the standard damping units as opposed to replacing them with something superior. K-tech use replacement damping units...
I rebuilt mine Racetech comp / rebound valves, bushes, linear springs & new fork seals but as you have to strip, change & modify the fork inners, it's not for the casual tinkerer. The modded forks are great now but it's a fair bit of effort.
After that your best option is a replacement front-end, but that ain't cheap either...
-
dude you need the forks cleaning out properly and new fork oil at the very least. At that age/miles if it aint been done the sludgy oil will be like grinding paste, and it will make the bushes wear the inner walls of the fork legs like a die grinder. If that happens they are scrap. Mines an 04, and its a yearly service thing now, and even with just 12 month old oil its focced. If you get them apart youll be able to look down the inside of the fork tube and see any distortion indicating wear. Best bet by far is to send the legs to Darren at MCT, he'll sort them proper.
-
I'm 100% with Ogri on the MCT thing.
He took me down there to get mine done and it was just in time apparently as the sludge was indeed grinding the inner walls away.
New oil, bushes and springs replaced, together with suspension settings set, all as recommended by Darren at MCT, as he has done dozens of Gen 1 thous, and my bike now handles superbly.
Money well spent.
-
I agree with the sludge build up issue, completely dismantled the forks on the 600 and 1000 early this year as it had not been done for about 5 years. Took a fair amount of time to clean out the internals of the 1000 especially. When I out it all back together the settings I had on the 1000 just did not work even with the same oil. Took a while to get it right again. Especially trying to dial out the biggest issue fault with the standard bike, runing wide out of corners
The standard 1000 front fork springs are way to soft and this is the first port of call to sort out. Whether you go progressive or linear is dependent on your riding, 2 up progressive, always on your own linear. In general it is a matter of personal choice.
-
Cheers for the replies fellas.
Thanks for the settings Unfazed, I was around those already as I think that feels the best with how it is.
Yep I changed the fork Oil (5w) when I got it, it was fairly old but not the worst ive seen. I need it for a stint in euope in about a months time, by the replies I think I will go straight to fully splitting them with new bushings then.
How hard is the damper rod on to remove on these, ive diy'd a tool before on simpler forks but this looks a bit more complicated inside.
If lack of oil changes causes internal wear im wondering if my forks have already been damaged then. I noticed this too when I was changing the oil.
https://puu.sh/DH7dJ.jpg (https://puu.sh/DH7dJ.jpg)
Roughly how much did it cost for a rebuild from MCT? Spings, new hardware etc.
The main problem is still a constant juddering and bucking through the bars, even on fairly smooth tarmac. Its not that the settings are a little soft/firm, it just feels like something is fundamentally wrong/broken on them.
-
the last one I had done was the cb1300 last year, a good clean, some new bits(slides and bushes), fresh oil, new fork seals, new springs £440. Not cheap but it transforms the bike. A thorough clean out is essential. the oil drains out ok but leaves all the bad shite inside mate.
-
Cheers for the replies fellas.
Thanks for the settings Unfazed, I was around those already as I think that feels the best with how it is.
Yep I changed the fork Oil (5w) when I got it, it was fairly old but not the worst ive seen. I need it for a stint in euope in about a months time, by the replies I think I will go straight to fully splitting them with new bushings then.
How hard is the damper rod on to remove on these, ive diy'd a tool before on simpler forks but this looks a bit more complicated inside.
If lack of oil changes causes internal wear im wondering if my forks have already been damaged then. I noticed this too when I was changing the oil.
https://puu.sh/DH7dJ.jpg (https://puu.sh/DH7dJ.jpg)
Roughly how much did it cost for a rebuild from MCT? Spings, new hardware etc.
The main problem is still a constant juddering and bucking through the bars, even on fairly smooth tarmac. Its not that the settings are a little soft/firm, it just feels like something is fundamentally wrong/broken on them.
Before you start write down the number of clicks back from full hard you have set on the rebound adjuster.
The damper rod is easy to remove, but needs a 26mm socket, It does not require much to hold in in place while loosening the bottom bolt. I used a 3/8 drive 26mm socket duct taped to a straight length of chrome vacuum cleaner pipe. Held it by hand with nitrile gloves on. Same putting it back in, getting everything to line up was the slow part.Follow the instruction on the Haynes manual which are very good.
Wrap the threads of the upper damper rod with a split piece of petrol pipe and hold it with a vice grip to undo the nut all the rest is easy enough.
Note: Before refitting the rebound adjuster; Set the rebound adjuster half way on its adjustments, it has 42 clicks when of the forks, but only 21 are used from full hard to full soft.
When it is all back together wind the adjuster to full hard and back it off to your settings. Now you can be sure the adjuster is set to full hard not the end of adjustment before full hard is met. That ensures that both dampers are equal. Many put the adjusters back as they come off, but that can end up with both sides different and almost impossible to set the rebound correctly.
Before You strip the forks, check the following:1. The bearings are not worn. (Check this with the calipers off the discs and tied up)
2. The rim is straight
3. The tyre is on straight4. The wheel is balanced5. Headrace bearing are not tight or notched
-
From what you're describing, the fork lowers may have worn to an unacceptable level - there is apparently an inherent fault with the Gen 1 forks, with the lower fork cartridge / fork lower wearing against the fork springs and the fork oil then turning to abrasive sludge. There's a great thread about it here on the FZ1OA site (hopefully you can view it without having to create an account):
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126071&highlight=gen+fork+wear (http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126071&highlight=gen+fork+wear)
This problem is exacerbated by not changing the fork oil regularly and the wear becomes so bad that you can apparently feel knocking sensations coming through the forks, almost like the head bearings have gone?
If this is the problem you may well have to replace the front forks, whether they be another pair of standard units (risk of replacement forks having the same problem), R6 5SL right-way-up forks as I fitted to mine back around 2011 or early-ish R1 forks. The latter two options usually drop the front-end by over an inch, not necessarily a problem but something else to consider.
-
This problem is exacerbated by not changing the fork oil regularly and the wear becomes so bad that you can apparently feel knocking sensations coming through the forks, almost like the head bearings have gone?
Yes exactly, feels like bad headbearings or a chain with stuck links.
Yeah I think R1 front end is on the cards.... going to split and rebuild as I need it for a trip in a months time, ill update this thread with some internal pictures when I do it to see if/how bad they are.
-
Having gone through stock forks, R1 front end and K-tech modded OE forks, I have to say I prefer the latter these days. Depending on which R1 forks you choose and how you install them, you could change the steering geometry a noticeable amount. Pitching the bike on its nose and shortening the wheelbase makes for much quicker steering but if overdone could make the steering too sharp and potentially twitchy.
Also, although later model R1 forks have better internals as standard than the OE Fazer forks, they're still not up to the quality of a K-tech or similar rebuild using single rate springs and quality damping valves tailored to you and the bike. You could still wind up having to mod the fork internals to get the ride quality that you desire.
IIRC, Maxton replace the OE alloy damper tube with a steel unit much less prone to wear, in addition to the valve work they do. It may be worth discussing your options with them and with MTC or K-tech direct before committing to the R1 mod solution.
-
I had my forks rebuilt with Wilbers progressive springs, R6 shock on the back - no more pogoing. HTH
-
Bit of a update
Finally got to the forks after having to get 2x helicoils to put a new rear disc on it.
Ive split and cleaned them. Not as bad as I thought they might be, there is some burring on the stop and some small here and there but no big grinding marks.
(http://[font=Verdana][size=78%][url=https://puu.sh/E3Hqu.jpg]https://puu.sh/E3Hqu.jpg[/url][/size][/font])
https://puu.sh/E3Hqu.jpg (https://puu.sh/E3Hqu.jpg)
The old bushings were absolutely shot. (new on the left)
(http://[font=Verdana][size=78%][url=https://puu.sh/E3Hqs.jpg]https://puu.sh/E3Hqs.jpg[/url][/size][/font])
(http://[font=Verdana][size=78%][url=https://puu.sh/E3Hqt.jpg]https://puu.sh/E3Hqt.jpg[/url][/size][/font])
https://puu.sh/E3Hqs.jpg (https://puu.sh/E3Hqs.jpg)
https://puu.sh/E3Hqt.jpg (https://puu.sh/E3Hqt.jpg)
Now I want to reassemble but I am stuck. Haynes says simply put the inner with the damper rod/oil stop and put the bottom bolt in.... I cannot for the life of me get the bolt to bite the thread. Not the problem of the damper rod spinning, I cant even get the bolt in. Ive tried many times carefully placing them together with not much luck.
The other problem I found was 1 of the replacement bushings seems bad. The replacement lower bushing on one stanchion, will now not go into the leg without a huge amount of resistance, way too much, would require hammering in rather than pushing in by hand. These were pyramid parts, and while I got OEM fork seals, feel like I should have got OEM bushings too....
Debating to get a new bushing, or take it all to k-tech dissembled and get them to put springs in and rebuild them.
-
Although I've used them myself, I've heard of some Pyramid bushings having incorrect dimensions. Personally, I'd give the forks to K-Tech to finish them off before it sickens your happiness with the bike.
-
or Darren at mct in Stowmarket.
Im looking at a couple of fazer thous at the moment, and am factoring the cost of Darren sortin the front and re springing the rear with a k teck shock into the deals. I do a lot of my own spannering, but imho things like suspension are best left to the pros with the tools, experience and decent parts on the shelf. just my opinion feller, and as we all know, opinions are like arseholes, weve all got them :)
-
What a busy man Darren is. Tried to get a ride in appointment before my trip to the Bol in late Sept. His first available date was the day after I leave, which was a shame, but booked in for late October now.
-
Cheers guys,
Dropped the forks in at K-tech this morning, bit of a shock to the wallet... but thats just how it is. I am in the midlands so MCT is a bit of a distance for me.
Just rebuilding to stock at the moment, will go from there when I have more budget and time in the winter. I want to experience the front end without completely shot bushings to get a baseline of where I want to go with it.
-
Thanks for the update Tim. I’m pretty much in the same position to the point where I’d considered selling the bike. So now need to decide what work to get done on the forks. Happy doing bushes, seals and springs myself but won’t be messing with revalving DIY. As you say, the costs are a bit heavy on the wallet!
-
Another option is to replace both compression and rebound adjusters using Racetech's valves. Even despite the US import tax, they both cost me around £300, plus about £100 for a set of K-tech linear springs. But that depends on your competence twirling spanners to save money here.The basics (bushings, seals etc) also need to be right too or it's a waste of effort. So more like £500 to sort the front properly.
-
be worth it guys. a fazer thou with a sorted front end is utterly pukka
-
Cheers guys,
Dropped the forks in at K-tech this morning, bit of a shock to the wallet... but thats just how it is. I am in the midlands so MCT is a bit of a distance for me.
Just rebuilding to stock at the moment, will go from there when I have more budget and time in the winter. I want to experience the front end without completely shot bushings to get a baseline of where I want to go with it.
You could have gone to biketek Tamworth, he did my fireblade forks. All new bushes and seals for £130
-
Bikerz in stoke did my knackered forks with ktec linear springs for £205 all in
-
For all those that have had them reworked by whoever, are new springs / bushes (if needed) and oil enough to make a significant difference to the ride without the revalving? Or are they still choppy over bumps?
-
Kebab, is this what you used? https://www.solomotoparts.com/Race-Tech-Gold-Valve-Fork-Kit-for-FZ-1-01-05/ (https://www.solomotoparts.com/Race-Tech-Gold-Valve-Fork-Kit-for-FZ-1-01-05/) and how hard are they to fit for a reasonably competent DIYer?
-
For all those that have had them reworked by whoever, are new springs / bushes (if needed) and oil enough to make a significant difference to the ride without the revalving? Or are they still choppy over bumps?
My bike is generally harsh at slow speed on shitty rough B roads, but once I’m flying it’s firm but it takes The sting out of high speed bumps 80-100mph. That’s what I wanted tho as I don’t hang about. It’s track bike hard and doesn’t dive much under braking. I’d probably have progressive springs and a proper revalve if you want proper smooth comfort for moderate speed touring
-
Kebab, is this what you used? https://www.solomotoparts.com/Race-Tech-Gold-Valve-Fork-Kit-for-FZ-1-01-05/ (https://www.solomotoparts.com/Race-Tech-Gold-Valve-Fork-Kit-for-FZ-1-01-05/) and how hard are they to fit for a reasonably competent DIYer?
Yes, that's one of the kits, but not sure which one. With the Racetech kits you can buy the Compression valves on their own, Rebound valves on their own or both sets of valves together in one kit. The single kit's serial number is is FMGV S2047, but I bought the set with both compression and rebound valves - serial number FMGV S2047C. If you type S2047 or S2047C into ebay, you can see the kits for sale, such as item #192879930393.
The compression valve is actually pretty easy to replace - you don't need to separate the upper & lower stanchions, just pull the 8mm allen bolts out under neath the bottom of the lowers and lift the inner cartridges come out. After that, add some heat to get the originals off. You could also re-fit the original compression valves back on if for some bizarre reason you wanted to.
The rebound valves are more difficult, requiring drilling out / widening the inner cartridge rods and shortening the little oil damping rods that sit just under the fork caps. Not too difficult IMO but something to bear in mind.
You could just fit the easier compression valves, but I suspect that would further highlight the poor standard rebound effects even more...
-
Right,
Finally got a MOT on it again after helicoiling the wheel/new disc/pads on the rear. Rebuilt forks back in, although K-Tech put a 10w fork oil in. Took it for about ~140 miles around the peak district.
Night and day difference from those knackered bushings... no more hard knocking through the bars and jerkyness. I am pretty happy with it now.
However, I can see down the road, wanting to improve the setup. I can really notice it wanting to run wide in tight corners, really have to consciously muscle into the turn more on some sharp bends. Now its roughly back to stock, id say for me, its still cant really handle small bumps/pot holes well at all, decent enough on good tarmac/fast roads, apart from the running wide in some circumstances.
up on Snake pass
https://puu.sh/E6sat.jpg (https://puu.sh/E6sat.jpg)
-
From their present setting try turning the rebound two clicks in to hard and the compression 2 clicks out to soft.. Slow the rate of rebound is what I eventually did to stop the running wide issue
-
I’ve taken my compression dampers out to 5 out from fully soft. It’s about the only way I can stand it on rough roads at modest pace. I’ve ktec 10.5 springs and 2 year old 10w oil
-
I’ve taken my compression dampers out to 5 out from fully soft. It’s about the only way I can stand it on rough roads at modest pace. I’ve ktec 10.5 springs and 2 year old 10w oil
Do you mean 5 out from fully 'hard', ie max compression damping?
I ask because you should always start damping adjustments with the adjusters fully - lightly - seated and then back them out to decrease the damping. The reason is that most adjusters will still have several turns out available after reaching minimum damping, if that makes sense?
-
I’ve taken my compression dampers out to 5 out from fully soft. It’s about the only way I can stand it on rough roads at modest pace. I’ve ktec 10.5 springs and 2 year old 10w oil
Do you mean 5 out from fully 'hard', ie max compression damping?
I ask because you should always start damping adjustments with the adjusters fully - lightly - seated and then back them out to decrease the damping. The reason is that most adjusters will still have several turns out available after reaching minimum damping, if that makes sense?
Hi mike, I backed out the adjuster to fully soft then added 5 clicks. I remember you saying they have too much comp damping as standard
-
Well, Ive taken it for ~600 mile trip camping in Wales and around England over the bank holiday weekend.
It started misfiring slightly towards the end of the first day, managed to rectify that by trimming the end off the offending HT lead.
The suspension, still not happy with at all. Its just so harsh and cant handle anything but perfect tarmac. Ive been toying with settings the full trip, and slacking off the front settings everytime just ends up with unacceptable diving under braking before I reach a plush ride. The rear im not sure is doing much of anything, cant feel it going through the stroke at all, very much a on/off feeling. R6 shock is on the cards, but the front honestly feels a _lot_ worse than the rear.
I think I need to look at new fork internals, but not sure where to start really. REALLY want to know its going to improve it before having to throw serious money at it.
Only other thing is the annoying buzz at 4.5k rpm, sitting at 70mph in top gear its nothing but irritating buzzing. Anyone played with the gearing to get around this?
https://puu.sh/Ea8nE.jpg (https://puu.sh/Ea8nE.jpg)
-
The suspension, still not happy with at all. Its just so harsh and cant handle anything but perfect tarmac. Ive been toying with settings the full trip, and slacking off the front settings everytime just ends up with unacceptable diving under braking before I reach a plush ride. The rear im not sure is doing much of anything, cant feel it going through the stroke at all, very much a on/off feeling. R6 shock is on the cards, but the front honestly feels a _lot_ worse than the rear.
I think I need to look at new fork internals, but not sure where to start really. REALLY want to know its going to improve it before having to throw serious money at it.
https://puu.sh/Ea8nE.jpg (https://puu.sh/Ea8nE.jpg)
Sounds like nothing less than a revalve or replacement of the compression & rebound valves, along with springs appropriate for your weight will do the job for you. If sticking with the standard forks, RaceTech are cheapest but only if you can DIY (fork springs & valves about £400). After that, Maxton & K-Tech charge between £600-725 to alter existing valves or replace them respectively.
The R1 fork conversion was / is quite popular but if unlucky the forks may need rebuilt and you may need to re-spring them to cope with the heavier Fazer.
Although biased, I found my R6 5SL fork conversion to be the most cost effective fork option, although I'm not sure how standard the internals of my R6 forks were:https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/fazer1000/r6-forks-non-usd-for-gen1-t4229.html (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/fazer1000/r6-forks-non-usd-for-gen1-t4229.html)If you sourced the right set, could be as cheap as £200 to convert, but the quality of second-hand forks are always a bit of a gamble...
-
Maybe changing the springs would help? I’m still undecided what to do. It sounds as though the MCT service only involves cleaning out and new oil/ springs so could do that myself but it would still be £100+.
-
Just a final say on my own FZS1000 front-end experience, which unfortunately has been considerable.
First FZS1000 owned 2009-2013- Ravenrider spring mod & 5w oil. Too Harsh
- Hyperpro springs and 2.5w oil. A bit of an improvement over standard, but not enough for me.
- 4VX R1 fork conversion. Much better, but standard springs were soft. Ordered linear springs.
- 5JJ R1 forks with Ohlins internals & the linear springs. Popped up whilst I was flush so went for 'em. Perfect, but I wasn't working for a while & ran out of money around 2012, so had to sell them again.
- 5SL R6 forks. Very good compared to standard Fazer forks, but standard Japanese valving is never as good as aftermarket stuff.
Current FZS1000 2017-present.- Linear fork springs & 2.5w oil. Damping felt harsh.
- Stripdown of forks, new bushes & seals then linear springs back in with 5w oil. Still felt harsh no matter what way I turned the dampers. Realised that the damping valves were the problem.
- Racetech Compression & Rebound valves, along with 5w, then 7.5w oil. Rebound is perfect, still tinkering a bit with compression settings hence fork oil changes.
I'm probably a bit fussy over forks... but there is no getting away from the fact that on bumpy roads the standard valving is poor. Different weight fork oils can mask this but cannot cure it.
-
Cheers for that mate. Does seem like a minefield....
I think if I go for new internals on the stock forks im going to end up at the budget of R1 + springs. So R1 seems to make the most sense then.
-
I honestly think youve been unfortunate and not caught it in time, and the internal walls of the outer leg have been too worn by the bushes. My 04 with the mct set is one of the best handling bikes ive owned. perhaps the r6 front end is the way forward. really sorry youve had this grief and expense, they really are superb bikes but they are getting older now
-
Aren’t the R1 and R6 forks shorter than stock though? How do you overcome this?
-
Either accept it, or get spacers for the top of the forks...
Which leads me to, is anyone still making the upper tripple spacer and the USD spacers? Everything else seems fairly straight forward.
-
Both R1 and R6 forks are indeed shorter than standard forks: the first picture of my R6 5SL fork thread shows the three forks lined up together. But reduced suspension travel stops the R1 / R6 setup smashing the radiator and other front-end parts. The alternative front-ends will however sit an inch lower, which improves the handling but reduces comfort.
Standard FZS1000 forks have 140mm of suspension travel. The alternative 2003-2004 R6 5SL forks only have 120mm of suspension travel, which offsets the forks being shorter.
-
Both R1 and R6 forks are indeed shorter than standard forks: the first picture of my R6 5SL fork thread shows the three forks lined up together. But reduced suspension travel stops the R1 / R6 setup smashing the radiator and other front-end parts. The alternative front-ends will however sit an inch lower, which improves the handling but reduces comfort.
Standard FZS1000 forks have 140mm of suspension travel. The alternative 2003-2004 R6 5SL forks only have 120mm of suspension travel, which offsets the forks being shorter.
Good answer, thanks, I don’t want to reduce comfort. I have a fireblade for that
-
Good answer, thanks, I don’t want to reduce comfort. I have a fireblade for that
Ah yes, it's about 8 years since I've been on one of those torture racks :) Then again, with the shorter R6 forks you can add 30mm riser inserts under the Fazer's handlebars and so restore the riding position back to standard...
-
From what you're describing, the fork lowers may have worn to an unacceptable level - there is apparently an inherent fault with the Gen 1 forks, with the lower fork cartridge / fork lower wearing against the fork springs and the fork oil then turning to abrasive sludge. There's a great thread about it here on the FZ1OA site (hopefully you can view it without having to create an account):
[url]http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126071&highlight=gen+fork+wear[/url] ([url]http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126071&highlight=gen+fork+wear[/url])
This problem is exacerbated by not changing the fork oil regularly and the wear becomes so bad that you can apparently feel knocking sensations coming through the forks, almost like the head bearings have gone?
If this is the problem you may well have to replace the front forks, whether they be another pair of standard units (risk of replacement forks having the same problem), R6 5SL right-way-up forks as I fitted to mine back around 2011 or early-ish R1 forks. The latter two options usually drop the front-end by over an inch, not necessarily a problem but something else to consider.
Interesting reading, do I assume then that OE forks upgraded by KTEC has completely removed this fault described or is just a temporary fix?
-
Hey guys,
Just want to say thankyou for the input so far, with the rebuilt forks and a R6 shock the bike is already feeling quite a bit on its way to where I want it. No longer getting po-go'd out the seat over bumps!
Main thing im running into now is what I am pretty sure is the stock mixture/tune. The carbs are stock on this one, the idle is a little rough, feels like it never quite settles and surges a little. Having very noticeable feeling of a bad mixture doing ~20-30 mph in 3rd to 4th gear around town. Feels like its almost wanting to drop a cylinder and surging a little. Its not terrible, but it makes it feel quite jerky. Is this the stock condition of the fueling? hence the Ivans upgrade? Ive already had to snip one of the HT leads due to corrosion so that could be another source of the issue.
Could anyone comment if that feels the same as their stock fueling? or I have have a ignition/sync issue instead.
Cheers!
-
I think theres a prob unfortunately, the two ive owned both ran lovely stock, so much so with the second one I thought it had been ivanised. the only time I had summat like your syptoms or at least similar was when it was overfuelling on one. easy enough to check, should be a cold pipe on one cylinder on tickover. mine was my own fault (not cleaned out properly after drilling for ivans) but I guess carb float height could be another reason
-
Sounds as though there’s an issue. Been laid up with old fuel?
I was thinking of reviving this thread yesterday. Was going to ask how the forks were? Got some k tech linear springs to fit in mine but still torn on doing a revalve. There seems to be no instructions available for the K tech kits despite being able to buy them.
-
Sounds as though there’s an issue. Been laid up with old fuel?
I was thinking of reviving this thread yesterday. Was going to ask how the forks were? Got some k tech linear springs to fit in mine but still torn on doing a revalve. There seems to be no instructions available for the K tech kits despite being able to buy them.
Thanks for the replies guys.
Could be fuel, but my hunch is HT lead currently. Is there a best practice for getting at the plugs without removing the AIS/Rad? or best just to get on with it and drop the rad/ais to get in there.
I did't end up getting springs from K-tech, just bushes/seals/oil as I was going to wait to see how the R6 shock performed before doing front springs. I think once I get other issues sorted, I would be happy enough with just new springs in the front + the R6 shock. Its not perfect but most likely good enough for my need I think.
-
It's a tough job doing the plugs if you've still got the ais fitted. Most people junk it to make servicing a lot easier. Quite a cheap mod if you've got the time.
-
just done me xjr13 with silicone caps and hose clamps. cheap as chips, had no probs, and it looks ok too. Fazer had already been done with the ivans stuff
-
I was thinking of reviving this thread yesterday. Was going to ask how the forks were? Got some k tech linear springs to fit in mine but still torn on doing a revalve. There seems to be no instructions available for the K tech kits despite being able to buy them.
Well, that sounds like a nice earner for them - people buy their kit then pay them again to personalise the shimstack :\ . At least RaceTech have an online service that tells you the exact shimstack setup needed for your specified weight.
Reactive suspension near York do courses on suspension: even if you don't go on it, I suspect they'd probably setup the valves cheaper than K-Tech would.
-
I might be wrong but can’t seem to find anything online. Did find the attached PDF but it’s only a small amount of info. Having researched I’m fairly comfortable that this isn’t a mammoth task and am still considering the Racetech kit. I travel to the US with work from time to time so would save a few $ with hand carrying back.
-
I don't know what level you feel comfortable working at, but IMO changing the compression valves are not overly difficult. Rebound valves are a bit more grief. Happy to provide advice if you need it, and there's a thread online somewhere showing early FJR1300 forks, which use the exact same Racetech valve kit.
-
Managed to get some new bushes last week from K-Tech before everything got locked down. So have some of their linear springs (eBay bargain), new bushes and fresh oil to stick in over the next few weeks. Hoping for at least a better ride once done. With the uncertainty can’t really justify the spend on the revalve, but got all the bits for about £70.
-
Finally got the forks rebuilt but not yet back in the bike. Replaced both bushes and fitted the linear springs.
The lowers don't appear worn but the oil was disgusting despite a non-dismantling change last year. Gave everything a thorough clean and got a lot of shite out of the compression valves. They feel different when compressing on the garage floor so we'll see how it goes! :rollin
-
Good luck!
For me it instantly just highlighted all the other problems I was having :lol
-
😂 luckily I think everything else is OK. Went with the 10w oil that K Tech recommended with stock valving and the linear springs. I hope it’s not too heavy but not a major issue if they have to come out again for a lighter oil.
-
I had 7.5w in the 1000 and it handled brilliantly with great front end feel, when changing the seals last year I decided to try 10w.
It was a very bad mistake, I have just removed the forks to change back to 7.5w.
10w just made it too stiff and despite many adjustments could never get the same front end feel I had with the 7.5w.Looking forward to getting it back to the way it was.
-
Hmmmmm.
Cheers unfazed.
Which oil did you use and are you on different springs? I used some of ( I think) your advice regarding the rebound adjuster to 21 clicks before reassembly.
I actually cut and pasted a whole load of information that I gathered from various posts into a text file to use when reassembling the forks. Happy to post it if beneficial to others.
-
Motul Technosynthese 7.5w is what I am putting back into the forks.
Wilbers progressive fork springs as I ride two up a lot and also tour on the 1000. Fork legs raised 10mm up through the yolks.The silver fork version shock from the S1000rr on the rear (with a 10mm spacer to allow greater adjustment of the preload) Tyres are Metzler Sportec M7RR Hopefully I should have it sorted by tomorrow :)
-
Forks back together yesterday, took it for a spin, Totally different bike, with the 7.5w oil in.
Front end feel is back as it was before I changed to 10w. :woot
-
Yeah im thinking of trying 5w again. Im on 10w (recommended by K-tech) but still the ride is too harsh, high speed damping is very poor, low speed is fine but the bike feels jerky around town.
So far im at 10w oil, forks 10mm drop, R6 rear shock. Settings are all near the middle of the range, preload setting 1/4 on the forks, not much preload on the rear. But I think I will get to the same point, slacking off the front, I just run into massive brake dive once the settings start to feel better. Thinking of doing a caliper overhaul on the front and bleed them to make sure its all as good as It can be to help with the brake dive.
Im slowly backing off all settings as I ride but its still way out from where I want it to be. Every time I jump on and ride, my first sense is how jerky and unsettled the suspension is. My basic divvy is sadly a much smoother ride... I experience the 'magic carpet' feel a lot more on that, that the suspension is constantly working under me, the fazer I can feel every tiny bump/undulation and big holes are a massive bang and throw my out the seat a little...
Went through and pulled the plugs and HT leads today also, want to rule out its a ignition issue causing jerky feeling. All is fine there.
Found a few stuck links in the chain and worked those out, but cant feel much improvement.
I'd love to ride a stock one back to back with mine, to get a idea if this is the baseline, or I still have no found the issue on mine.
-
Tim, reading back over this thread, you've tried pretty much everything obvious. I take it you're not the original owner of the bike? Wondering now if it's been involved in a minor front-end prang and only been half-repaired. As in - are the fork stanchions are totally straight and the telescoping action is smooth at one part of the compression stroke and impaired at another? Then when the fork rebounds you experience a similar jerkiness at some point in the suspension travel.
Unlikely I know but we have to consider all possibilities around this issue - wouldn't want you throwing a fortune at the problem just to find the forks are out-of-true....
-
I’m thinking the 10w will be too heavy having listened to the feedback. Forks are still not back in so I’ve ordered some Motul Expert light 5w which is close to Yamaha 01 oil on the Cst charts I’ve found. 15.6 for standard vs 17.9 Motul 5w. The 10w Motul is 35.9.
I think I’ll stick the 5w in and try it. If it’s too light I’ll take out an amount by volume using a syringe and bung in the equivalent of 10w therefore having somewhere in between. They’re the same oil in different weights so should be OK.
-
Having tried the 5w 7.5w and 10W on the standard forks for setup and Wilbers progressive springs.I weigh about 90kg in full gear and my findings were
Oem and 5w oil is far too light and was running out of adjustment on the rebound damping
The 7.5w was and is just about perfect, plus easier to set up
The 10w was making it too stiff, especially on compression and not easy to setup. Never felt in control of the front with the 10w and some roads felt like it was chattering
My Present fork setting with 7.5w oil and the Wilbers Progressive springs
150mm Air gap
Forks legs up 10mm through yokes.
Compression: seven clicks back from max.
Rebound: six clicks back from max.
Preload: one ring showing
Laden sag: 35mm. (just one up with full tank of fuel)
-
Cheers Unfazed.
Using this calculator I can mix my oil to suit. https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html (https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html)
Didn’t want to waste the new 10w so can hopefully have enough for 2 changes 😀.
-
Handy calculator. :thumbup
-
Hello again gents!
After opinions, wanting to service the exup, took off the cover and found bottom left bolt is pretty much gone, someone has rounded it out and rusted stuck. (clearly aint been serviced in a long time :rolleyes ) Had a go already with a torx bit and a impact driver but no luck. Ive no problem drilling bolts but this one is pretty awkward. Tempted to just to drop the headers and drop it to the machine shop to do so they can helicoil if needed. Anyone got any other tricks to try first?
Its flicked the 7k exup warning a few times intermittently, so im wondering if its not fully closing and contributing to my low rpm hunting. Noticed that exhaust lug on the right has corroded off too...
(http://[font=Verdana][size=78%][url=https://puu.sh/FZDsA.jpg]https://puu.sh/FZDsA.jpg[/url][/size][/font])
(https://puu.sh/FZDsA.jpg)
Ive already got the stainless replacements ready.
Cheers!
-
Final thoughts from me on the fork situation.
To recap, my gen 1 thou hasn’t done many miles. Approx 13k. I’m 12.5 stone ish without kit.
Replaced the upper and lower bushes, 9.0Nm linear K-Tech springs and mixed some 5w and 10w Motul oil to get to 7.5w. K-tech recommendation is 10w but after hearing from a few others that it was too harsh I went with lighter. Up until today had done perhaps 40 miles fine tuning. Today did a nice run from the midlands down to the south coast, 180 miles via Cirencester and Sailsbury. Back home tomorrow.
Initially (before today) I was not that impressed but got to say that it was one of the nicest rides I’ve had on the bike after the set up changes. The forks aren’t absolutely perfect but they are much, much better. One of the main issues I was having is the low speed reaction to bumps, feeling everything and compared to my ancient ZZR600 it was awful.
Arrived at:
9.0Nm linear springs + 7.5W Motul oil
Air gap: 145mm
Preload: 3 rings showing
Rebound: 7 clicks out
Compression: 10 clicks out
Perhaps some further optimising (I know the stock valving is crude) but I’ve now got to an acceptable feeling with the front end to go with the R6 shock.
Happy days!
I’ve had some good help from other members so hope this is useful information for somebody.
Maybe a revalve one day..... 😁
-
Cheers for the notes Trebus,
I think I am reaching the same point as you. I had a good run today constantly adjusting,
I found best for me, was reducing R6 shock to 3 preload only, reduced rb/compression too.
Front, 0 preload, and others way soft, with 10w oil, I think you are right, 7w oil + a little preload and dial in the comp/rebound is the best compromise.
Hopefully this is my last oil change :D
Still chasing, low speed jerkniess, on the MOT front wheel braking fluctuation came up same as the rear. from having poor powder coating, the discs were not put back flush, manually skimmed them and pulsing at the levers is pretty much undetectable now. Got me thinking though, the discs were a bit of bodge (remember I had to get the rear wheel helicoiled as I found they ruined one of the rear disc threads) Im wondering if they cooked the front wheel bearings in the oven and never replaced. I cant feel anything wrong with them doing the usual checks and nothing caught my attention with the wheel off, might just replace them anyway.
After that I can only think of fueling or chain. Front fork action does not feel bent, all appears good with straight rule.