Ducati GP12

[Skippernick]

So Hayden has put the GP12 onto third position for the race today, admitedly 1.0 sec off pole, and Rossi is the last prototype bike in 13th position, 3.5 seconds behind.
And i got slagged off for saying its not the bike its the rider, now i feel vindicated.
Don't get me wrong i am a fan of Rossi, but even Parrish is quoted in this months fast bikes as saying he is not the rider he once was.


Agruments start now.....

[Boris]

Rossi is still a great rider, but with all the best will in the world, I too believe he has seen better days and in my view since his crash his confidence is not what it used to be  , plus he is now older and up against younger guns. However, he's still is a valuable asset to motogp, even my mother's heard of Rossi.
Even though it's early days, it would be a shame if he were to retire this year, especially if it was on a low note. Maybe Audi have an ambassadour title lined up for him?
Could this be the time to go rallying?
Let's see what the year has install, he could still yet get a podium
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Skippernick]

totally agree with you Boris.
Before i got into bikes i had heard of Rossi, and i really hope he does get back in top of his game, maybe Audi can pay his wages   seen as they are more than the entire Tech 3 budget for 2 riders.


My point from a earlier topic was that i unfortunetly believe its in Rossi's mind and not the bike. Although Hayden ended up 8th just in front of Rossi, but maybe that was tyres etc.

[headgonekneedown]

who gives a flying fuck.
did no one see a mister crutchlow in the race?

[Skippernick]

of course good point
although if you read the topic title it clearly says Ducati GP12

[Boris]

Yes mister Crutchlow did brilliantly , but it's still early days. Don't forget what happened to Toseland . However, I do believe if Crutch does keep up the pace and Spies doesn't, then somebody else could be teaming up with Lorenzo. It would certainly help Poncheral as he's commited to Bradley at the end of the season.  
 
But going back to Rossi. I remember him saying at his height, that even he could make the then slow Kawasski work . And this I believe he thought he and Burgess could do on the Ducati and by doing so show up Stoner . Unfortunately it hasn't worked.
Despiter numerous prangs, Stoner came away with a title and several podiums on a machine that Mr rossi can't control, even with numerous chassis changes.
 
So wish all this pressure from the fans, Ducati and now Audi, if his head ain't f****d by now he's a better man than me.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[pitternator]

I think you all dismiss rossi far too lightly. Hayden has been on ducatis for many years now. His background is sliding bikes, can control bikes most cant. But he still aint the racer which rossi has proved to be. Stoner left ducati for a bloody good reason, the bike is shite,it totally lacked development  the honda is the best in the world, developed over several years at massive cost to honda. Stoner aint done jackshit to it !
 What we are seeing is rossi failing to be able to develop the ducati...it is not his machine, it does not suit his style, its not what he wants. He developed the yamaha with the massive factory backing of yamaha. Ducati in spite of the hype aint got the will or the resources to do same. Stoner is a very talented rider, who could ride the ducati , always on the edge, sometimes too far, and crashed a lot.He is far more consistent with the honda...as probably any good rider will be. The yamaha is  a great bike too, but if you contrast spies and lorenzos times and finishing positions, that must make him over the hill too ? Sorry that dont cut any mustard with me. Spies aint in the zone right now, and we dont know why, but we do know why vale is  ...the bike just does not suit him. Period.
To win  a moto GP you have to have your bike perfectly in tune with your abilities and needs.At this level,the diffrence between success and failure is thousands of a second sometimes over a lap... The equation at ducati is simply wrong ...and IMO its now too late to rectify.I dont think rossi will do the car thing if he can avoid it ...his talent is needed in moto gp. Trouble is there is so little room for any rider now in moto GP, apart from CRT , that there is an inevitability we wont see rossi again.I for one would take no solace if this happens.I just contrast the incredible closeness of the racing in WSB to what is still almost a one horse race in moto GP.Maybe it will always be the case with prototypes, but it dont help the racing.Lose rossi and moto GP loses spectacle, finance, and  a genuine contender , but the bike has to suit him and his talents.

[Boris]

I don't dismiss rossi too lightly. At present he has too much to lose , especially his reputation. However, he's had a good spell at the top and he done wonders for Moto GP. I bet if  one asked members of Joe public if they've heard of stoner, lorenzo and Pedrosa, they'd look at you as if your from another planet . Mention rossi, no problem. And it's not just Ducati who want him in at  the front, Dorna no doubt does too, promoting their cause. Actually all his sponsors do as well.

I agree, Stoner has about as much charisma as stagnant moss. But he did bring home the goods, I disagree on a shite Bike, but a bloody difficult one to master. Don't forget when it first came out it left everybody standing . Unfortunately for Ducati everybody caught up and then waved byebye .  Personally, I'm all for WSB and BSB. The racing is close and the grid is sufficent . Though I do wish there was a R1 on the grid . But at least it ain't like the ducati cup as WSB was a few years ago . What Rossi doesn't want, is for Checa to come along for a one off MOTO gp ride, as Bayliss did and blitz the pack .

It does seem weird that Ducati are doing well in one series with an out of date machine And didley squat in another class.

what they need is a bit of Vorst brung dork technic. Or have I got the wrong car maker.

[Phil]

 

It does seem weird that Ducati are doing well in one series with an out of date machine And didley squat in another class.

 

WSB Ducati's are easy on tyres.
MotoGP Ducati's were better on the built for Ducati Bridgestones before control tyres came into it. This year the tyres are easier to get up to required temperature without crashing, but performance drops off.


http://www.ducati.com/racing/motogp/news/hayden__rossi_eight_and_ninth_in_spanish_grand_prix/2012/04/29/868/index.do?urlBack=%2Fracing%2Findex.do%23filter%3D.all


Nobody can stay at the top forever. At least his spell at the top wasn't ended by injury, like Doohan's.

[pitternator]

When the ducati first came out it had  a tremendous top speed advantage. Stoner won many races simply by overtaking everyone down the main straight. I still recall the duke leaving all other bikes standing.It never was a great bike in corners.
Todays duke is still fast in a straight line, but the honda is still quicker...but handles so much better in the corners. The M1 looks to be the best of all for handling.But not so quick at top end.
Take  a look at hayden cornering in last sundays moto GP, the thing did not want to turn...it wasnt long before his early advantage was taken away by other bikes. It may have been tyre wear , but induced by poor steering.The duke is great in wet conditions cos the lap times are way lower, and its steering is in the zone...both rossi and hayden enjoyed being  more at the top of the board...but as the track dries, lap times tumble, the duke is pushed out of its zone.Look at it logically...hayden has been riding it for years ...he knows it inside out , yet still has had little success.He is an ex world champion...to me the issue is plain. Its  a shite bike for this level of racing, and even with all the rush development still dont cut the mustard.