what a mess....help plz?

[reillypadraig]

hey guys, first post and i need some help already,


intro first, the names padraig, i live in ireland and myself and my mate bought a fzs600(1999) a few months back.


we bought it fairly cheap 700 euro for it, it was manky dirty and the guy we bought it of had half put in a new engine and didnt know what wires went where or where any bolts were,


so we managed to get bolts and find wires and got it alltogether and wouldnt start on the button so i got pissed of and brought a wire straight form the blue wire in the starter relay and have it now attached to the pillion peg and start the bike that way by grounding it of the peg( i know i know).


so it was running ok until now, so i synced the carbs and got them fairly close just the first cylinder was running .5cmhg more than the rest which is nothing.
but still it wont idle right, i have cylinder 1,2 and 4 running lean(guess because the sparks are a little white, and 3rd is black so running rich). i have then the carbs out 5 times in the last 2 days and its getting enoying now, do i just ajust the needle on 1,2 and 4? and aswel as the bobbing needle as i call it that opens and closes with the floats moving up and down, the internal spring is gone on my 4th cylinder side i.e the little nib is dead flat to the case but the needle still works fine, does it need to be replaced?


the reason for all of this is that this bike was left out in the weather and not moved for years.


so where do i go with the starter button? i dont think i have any power at the button at all, (im going to get a ohm meter at it today to find out for sure)and all the connections i have cleaned. so is it the main relay thats gone?


also my fan only seems to work if i start the bike with my little wire and leave it touching the frame(i know, this also causes the starter motor to run, but i have left the bike running for a long time and fan just wont kick in, thermostat seems ok........


too many problems in the one post...........

[His Dudeness]

holy god will ya slow down. you're all over the place    try and do one thing at a time. what do you want to sort first?

[Fazerider]

Hi Padraig, and welcome to the forum.


Firstly the carbs. Hopefully you've blown through all the passageways with compressed air to clear any gunk that congealed out of old fuel. I'm not quite clear what you've been adjusting, but the slow jet has more of an effect on the mixture at small throttle openings than the needle that is attached to the piston/diaphragm assembly. If everything has been fiddled with a good starting point is the circlip for that needle in the middle position and the slow adjustment (right at the front of the carb nearest the engine) wound out two turns from the fully closed position.
The easiest way to check the float height is to attach a length of clear tubing arranged in a 'U' to the drain of each carb in turn and check where the fuel level stabilises.
If the broken spring is the one that sits in the diaphragm then yes, it needs replacing. If it's one that provides resistance to stop an adjuster from moving with engine vibration then yes, it needs replacing.


Starter button... it could easily be the contacts inside just need a clean. I've had that happen on mine and mine's normally parked under cover. It's easy enough to take apart and clean up with emery paper, but a pain in the arse to persuade everything back inside the housing afterwards. Hopefully your multimeter will help with diagnosis. At least the lack of fan shouldn't be a problem for another six months!

[unfazed]

Wellcome to the Foccers world.
Where in Rainy land are you as I am also in Rainy land (Cork)?
As his dudeness says Whoa take it easy.
Fault finding needs a very systematic approach.
Most likely your problem is with the carburettors as any bike out in the elements will have evaporated the fuel and clogged the jets and most commonly the pilot jets
What exactly did you do when you cleaned the carbs?
Did you remove the jets or just blow them out. Did you adjust things without knowing what you were adjusting? Did you check the diaphrams? Post a few photos of the problems you think you have and we can point you in the right direction.
The float needle valve seems to be what you are saying is missing its spring.
Remember most thins are repairable but take it one step at the time and fix one thing at the time.
Do you have a service manual? If not download the one in the download area.
 

[reillypadraig]

lol, sorry about all that, i went abit mad,


im from co meath in ireland.


ok wel first thing is i fixed the starter button today, had it of 3 or 4 times before trying to fix the problem, it was an earthing problem, the earth wire was broken half way between the button and the connector box, was strange, no signs of cuts or nicks or anything, just kept on slightly cutting the wire to expose the internal wire until i found the break.


now the carbs, first thing before i started the bike for the first time after putting in the new engine i took the carbs apart and cleaned out the floats, float bowls, main jet needle jet and pilot jet all cleaned with carb cleaner( and i made sure not to spray carb cleaner down into the diaphragms). i did move the sync screw but i fixed that the other day with a carb tune kit


here is a few pics to help with the story so far


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302724944354&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater
 
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302781611015&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302788277681&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302771611016&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302854944341&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302838277676&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302841611009&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302928277667&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484302914944335&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303014944325&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303048277655&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303078277652&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303068277653&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303084944318&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303114944315&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303104944316&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303108277649&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303154944311&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303164944310&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484303254944301&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484307974943829&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater


so, if you looked at all of them you get a grim picture of the carbs but there all clean now and going, but i didnt take of the top of the carbs as the bolts are rusted to shit and wd-40 just wont work, there all ringing on me.


next problem is the fuel adjustment srews are all broken and siezed apart from cylinder 1.


all springs are working but cant get to the needles, and as there is a non standard exaust i was informed i might have to adjust my needles,


bike runs ok ish, i get full power in different places in the rev range and now i have no power after leveling the floats today.


and i do have a haynes manual( its my bible)haha.


also, i have changed clutch, had to get a new choke plunger for cylinder 3 as you might have seen from the pictures,
rear brake caliper is fubar, new one needed( cant find one, also need rear brake master cylinder)
had to rewire rear lights, rewire head lights and indicators,
new engine had transmission rattle when clutch is let out and its not the clutch bearing or the clutch basket anti judder springs,or the anti judder spring in the clutch,
had to replace starter relay
had to replace clutch handle
had to get gear changing spline bar as didnt come with bike.


basically bike has been resurected from the dead lol


iv done it again, iv said too much 

[His Dudeness]

those carbs were fairly bad! did you manage to get all of the jets out? if the diaphragm screws are badly damaged you might be able to get them out using a punch and a hammer. you hold the carbs securely and then punch down on one side of the screw head to create an indent, then hammer the punch in an anti-clockwise direction and the screws should come out. you'll need new screws when you're done. having said that, those carbs look pretty bad, you'd probably be better off getting a second hand set off ebay or here because the carbs are probably the cause of the running problems your having.

[unfazed]

Believe it or not I have seen worse and we scrapped them, was not worth the trouble.
You have two options here
1. By a set off ebay, they go from anything from £50 upwards and there are plenty of them out there and scrap the pnes you have and use tham as spares. (I would definitely agree with his dudeness comment)
2. Try and dismantle them further and have them ultrasonically cleaned. With that level of gunk and corrosion it would be difficult to ever get them right and considering the adjusters are seized
Did you remove the TPS on the right hand side (two secure Torx) as this can seize and cause very erratic running and reduced power.
If you do go the second hand route make sure it has the TPS on it.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=fazer+600+carbs&_sacat=0&_odkw=faz600+carbs&_osacat=0&_from=R2&_armrs=1
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=fazer+600+carburettor&_sacat=0&_odkw=fazer+600+carbs&_osacat=0&_from=R2&_armrs=1
It appears you have the basis of a good bike but alot of work.
Good luck

[john 087]

Hi Padraig, from the rainy land as well. I recently got a rear calliper of 03 Fazer from Merlin bike parts. 0402 236323 is the phone number. They might still have a set of carbs of the bike, there is also a bike dismantler in cork Called p&t motorcycle parts who has a 99 Fazer for parts.

[reillypadraig]

im going to try remove diaphrams tomorrow, i tested the tps, turn the ignition on and unplug the tps then plug it back in puts it into diagnostics mode, it read 10,000 rpm so i moved it and brought it down to 5,000 rpm like the haynes manual said . still didnt run quite right.


i dont want having to get new carbs if i can help it,its so close to running right i can taste it haha. i dont think the idle screws were ever touched, so if they are factory set it might be a good idea if i dont touch them anyway? so if i do get the needles out should i adjust them?


i brought the bike for a run last night and between 1/4 and 1/2 trottle im getting the spluttering, and if i go full trottle quickly after that it stays spluttering the rest of the trottle range, but if i go slow revving past the 1/4 and 1/2 mark i get full power with no hesitation what so ever the whole way up the revs.
carbs are as clean as they are going to get, i dont know anyone that has an ultrasonic cleaner. i have spent hours with carb cleaner and a toothbrush and a softer small brush cleaning out the gunk.


ill give that merlin guy a ring if this carb gets the better of me lol, he was the guy i was gona ring about the brake caliper aswel, is that the guy in wicklow??
pts breakers dont have a carb i dont think, i got the starter relay of them and asked about other parts and he basically said there is nothing left of the bike at all.


@his dudeness yes i did get the jets out and cleaned and aircompressed the holes out, bit of a job though to see tru the tiny holes at the top to see if light gets through them.


so my main question is if i do get the screw out do i adjust the needles?
i think thats my problem, take a look at the picture


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=484787274895899&set=a.484302664944360.105616.100000938936026&type=3&theater

[unfazed]

There definitely is some blockage somewhere and the particulr gunge from evaporated unleaded petrol is verrrrrrrrrrrrry difficult to shift without access to a ultra sonic cleaner or the old type hi build thinners.
You will definitely need to get the tops off to check the diaphragms and rule them out.
The pilot screws are set at the factory using the bolt holes on the exhaust down pipes to insrt CO2 testers. The are not sealed and should be set to 2 turns out from a gentle full in. You will need to remove them to clean them.
It is vital that you make sure all the air passages are clear including the ones associated with the diaphragms.
Is the choke reseating ok and did you remove them in the cleaning process?
 
http://www.fazerspares.com/items/131-1_888-carburettors.htm
 

[reillypadraig]

I will have to ask my local dealer again about an ultrasonic cleaner, I'm going to take out the carbs again tomorrow and take of the tops and get thick with the fuel mix screws, hopefully they will come out, left them soaking in wd-40 for 3 hours last day and still wouldn't move but will try again, will go cleaning again and test the fuel level in the bowls aswel if I can

Choke seems to work perfect, had to replace one. So was running rich for awhile while it was removed.

Any suggestions on how to clean the diaphrams? Don't want putting anything on them that might ruin them.

Also if I do get the tops of should I just clean or adjust the needles ?

[unfazed]

Clean diaphragms in petrol, you need to check them for pin holes.
WD 40 won't shift than gunge from unleaded fuel, it is like paint
Just check if the needle clip is on slot 3 (there are 5 slots) and clean them.
Fuel level is to the top of the float bowl.
A lot of time and effort when you could have bougth a set for €40 to €50 from Fazerspares and kept the ones you have for spares parts

[reillypadraig]

Oh I think of this doesn't fix it I will have to purchase, 40 - 50 sounds good, but will they ship to Ireland? I was getting ones for 100- 120 on eBay, bit much when I still have to buy a speed sensor and a rear calliper and rear master cylinder

[unfazed]

Yes, I have bought from them previously.
They also have the rear caliper and marster cylinder for the same price on the site.
 

[kebab19]

Hello P
I'm also from the monsoon island

I'd agree about newer / better carbs, if your originals have been sitting for years there could be several things wrong with them & its a bollix to pull em in & out repeatedly.
Once its running with a set of better carbs you could concentrate on getting the rest of the bike sorted out, then properly clean / replace everything in the original carbs at your leisure.


For a replacement rear caliper, switch to a Yamaha TRX850 one and the TRX's longer rear brake hose. Fits straight in, works better and is less seizure-prone.

[reillypadraig]

I should know after today if I need new ones, getting pissed of at this stage,

I seen the rear master cylinder on the site but only saw front calipers.

I have heard this argument before about the trx850 and also the 2005 fz1 fits  with a little bit of fiddeling.

Is the trx850 a direct bolt on job??

[packie]

Hi Padraig, from the rainy land as well. I recently got a rear calliper of 03 Fazer from Merlin bike parts. 0402 236323 is the phone number. They might still have a set of carbs of the bike, there is also a bike dismantler in cork Called p&t motorcycle parts who has a 99 Fazer for parts.

P&T motorcycles have hardly nought for the Fazer, but there is another guy in Ovens called Pwho have a FZS400 for breaking. Dunno if the 400 carbs do the 600. I'm trying to find out if the right (brake) riders hanger/footrest will fit the 600. His website is here:

http://www.patsbikeparts.com/


Cheers.....
Packie (Cork)

[kebab19]

The 2001-2005 Fazer FZS1000 bluespot caliper does fit the rear with a tiny amount of filing, but rarely appears for sale and usually commands top dollars.
The early R1's rear bluespot looks the same but DOES NOT fit.
It's still unknown whether the XJR1300's rear bluespot caliper fits   

TRX850 rear brake caliper fitment guide from the old site:
http://fazerowners.yuku.com/topic/30096/trx850-rear-brake-now-fitted-to-2001-fazer-600#.UO7Fs6yHiSk

[packie]

I should know after today if I need new ones, getting pissed of at this stage,

I seen the rear master cylinder on the site but only saw front calipers.

I have heard this argument before about the trx850 and also the 2005 fz1 fits  with a little bit of fiddeling.

Is the trx850 a direct bolt on job??

I have something that may/may not help you out. I have a rear calliper that I don't think is seized, but some clown sheared one of the bleed nipples. I have brake pads for them too. I tried drilling out but no luck so you could drill a larger hole and maybe source or get a larger bleed nipple made up. I also have a master cylinder but again, some clown either cut off or sheared some of the thread on the adjusting bolts. It works, but your brake pedal will be a bit high. You can have both free...just cover the post which would cost about €10. You can send me a private message if you are interested.

I replaced both myself. I'm using a Fazer 1000 caliper. Just a little filing to the bracket (or caliper) and it fits perfect. If you want a perfect master cylinder, there are loads about...the caliper will be more tricky to get both the original and a substitute.
Cheers,
Pakie.