Author Topic: IAM "Skill for Life" course...recommended? (Read 33414 times)

spider · « **Reply #25 on:** 29 June 2012, 02:38:44 pm »

i thort i was a great rider. i cud do 100mph on the straights or motorway. then i joined a advanced riding club. £55 a year. once a week i went out with my observor. once a month a safty chat and a ride with another observor. then there was the group rides. i have learned loads of things. pass my rospa and neva looked back. when i joined i thort oh this bloke is 20 years older than me. this will be slow and boring. how wrong was i. he lost me on the first bend.

JZS 600 · « **Reply #26 on:** 29 June 2012, 02:52:08 pm »

That was like the blokes I went out with on the "private" runs. (non observed)

Took a while but eventually I got the skills, mostly observation and gearbox/throttle control.

pitternator · « **Reply #27 on:** 30 June 2012, 06:41:20 am »

Goldfazer
1. as a cyclist you have often boasted you dont have to stick to any speed limits, as no doubt you are a special sort of driver.

2. yes in 1999, if you strayed over the limit more than 3 times on your test ( even minor overages eg + 5 mph) you automatically failed. Rospa didnt allow any mistakes....obviously times have changed.I think standards were higher back then. Some might think that doesnt count , but keeping to limits is a skill in itself....

My issue is this...a court or traffic copper wont take the view that as a IAM driver you have any more right than anyone else if caught speeding. Graham, you seem to smugly assume you have the ability to spot / detect speeed traps/ cameras...you should bottle it , it will be a wonder product.

The issue of sticking to a speed limit shows you have restraint , something very important for inexperienced riders to master if they want to avoid riding into situations which can rapidly exceed their abilities. It doesnt actually mean going slow.Speed is not everything , safe use of speed is .We all have bikes which are capable of much higher speeds than we will normally need in most road situations...hence mastery over the machine ibso facto means restraining speed.

The common thread amongst inexperienced riders is they just want to ride faster ....I think you should try to ride safer first . Speed comes with experience and knowledge, its not the first thing you should want to learn.I first learnt to ride in 1975, the roads were scary even back then with much lower powered cars and bikes, and much less traffic/ driving distractions.The UK is a potentially very dangerous place to ride...get safe first is the IAM message.

HalfEmpty · « **Reply #28 on:** 30 June 2012, 10:12:35 am »

I did the BikeSafe course a couple of years ago in Birmingham. FANTASTIC!!!!!
A bit scary the first day have a copper behind you all the time, but they are motorcyclists and they want you to stay alive.
On the subject of speed, the copper I followed 'nicked a bit on clear A roads. Apparently he took the lead because we were not making sufficient progress - 60 on our clocks was not 60 on his calibrated clock - seems like it was nearer 80 to keep up!

goldfazer · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 June 2012, 12:13:59 pm »

'1. as a cyclist you have often boasted you dont have to stick to any speed limits, as no doubt you are a special sort of driver.'

er, no. Firstly I'd have a job breaking a speed limit these days (except downhill), secondly, pushbikes aren't subject to speedlimits BY LAW. But I can't see what that's got to do with anything anyway...

And it's a fact, my car IAM (1993) - stuck behind a slow moving vehicle, saw an overtake coming up, told the examiner there was going to be a brief chance and I'd make the most of it (back in the days of a commentary) - can't remember what I reached, nothing drastic but more than the 60(?) limit. He was quite happy and later told me I'd done the right thing. When I did the bike test (examiner Robbie Dowling, Avon & Somerset Police bike instructor and examiner, been on TV

) had a similar thing, he mentioned it in the debrief, I just mentioned TED and he was happy.

So wind yer neck in

JZS 600 · « **Reply #30 on:** 30 June 2012, 04:25:39 pm »

You can get done for "Furious Cycling"

It's nearly worth doing just to get that charge against your name!

HalfEmpty · « **Reply #31 on:** 30 June 2012, 08:50:43 pm »

Curious Fycling is better

Grahamm · « **Reply #32 on:** 01 July 2012, 12:29:07 am »

Quote from: pitternator on 30 June 2012, 06:41:20 am

My issue is this...a court or traffic copper wont take the view that as a IAM driver you have any more right than anyone else if caught speeding. Graham, you seem to smugly assume you have the ability to spot / detect speeed traps/ cameras...you should bottle it , it will be a wonder product.

Pitternator, where the *foc* did I say that? Oh, that's right, I didn't. Why don't you go back and read what I actually *wrote* rather than what you smugly seem to assume I wrote?

Quote

The issue of sticking to a speed limit shows you have restraint , something very important for inexperienced riders to master if they want to avoid riding into situations which can rapidly exceed their abilities.

And I don't disagree with that in the slightest... *when* it is appropriate! Sure, sticking to (or below) 30 and 40 limits is sensible. Sure, inexperienced riders (and even, or especially experienced one) should exercise due restraint, again *WHEN* it is appropriate.

Yes, fine, get safe first, I don't disagree with that either, but once you've got that message and increased your experience, then you'll find that what you can do *safely* increases.

pitternator · « **Reply #33 on:** 01 July 2012, 07:27:17 am »

Gold
I recall a cycling thread where you did indeed brag about speeding on a bicycle!..above the law and all that .
I am perplexed that maybe on my IAM training / test / training afterwards, my group is the only one that seems to have kept to speed limits....

Its not me that needs to wind my neck in...

graham
Why is it you mention that on your ride outs , you take big overtakes and mention speeding , then take umbrage when I point out such ??..you make a big point about using a lot of speed to make the overtakes...another opinion is that maybe such an overtake was not appropriate/necessary if you needed such speed to make it .Yes , use the power of the machine, but its not a carte blanche. I would preach more a message about using the acceleration difference and natural slow down points in the road to make an overtake, rather than just big speed.It sends a safer message.If an inexperienced rider is not willing to restrain his speed behind slower traffic then it will lead to dodgy overtakes.Advanced riding is not just about going fast ...

JZS 600 · « **Reply #34 on:** 01 July 2012, 08:50:09 am »

I believe that advanced cycling is about observation, positioning, safety and cornering.

JZS 600 · « **Reply #35 on:** 01 July 2012, 08:51:08 am »

Quote from: JZS 600 on 01 July 2012, 08:50:09 am

I believe that advanced cycling is about observation, positioning, safety and cornering

Or in this case, motorcycling!

Grahamm · « **Reply #36 on:** 01 July 2012, 11:17:46 am »

Quote from: pitternator on 01 July 2012, 07:27:17 am

Why is it you mention that on your ride outs , you take big overtakes and mention speeding , then take umbrage when I point out such ??

Because you then go on to say stupid things like...

Quote

[...]but its not a carte blanche.

... implying that *I* have said this, when I have *NOT*, so stop trying to put words into my mouth.

JZS 600 · « **Reply #37 on:** 01 July 2012, 05:18:41 pm »

It's about the ability to control the position and speed of your bike realtive to everything else on the road.

Enuff!

sadlonelygit · « **Reply #38 on:** 01 July 2012, 09:52:10 pm »

my $0.02 worth.
the IAM group i went out with were the most sanctimonious bunch of pricks i ever had the mispleasure to meet.
observed rides were cancelled due to poor weather!! i used to ride 365 days a year, come rain, snow, hell or high water.
often i'd be setting out at 4am with frozen roads, so to have a ride cancelled because it's a bit wet didn't lay to well with me.
for some reason they met every criteria of the self righteous bearded bmw rider brigade who always knew 'better' than you and were mantra-like in their weekly roadcraft recitals. apparently my 30 years of accident free riding was more by luck than judgement as i had serious road placement issues (i wouldn't ride in the gutter approaching a right hander)
i sincerely hope that other groups are better than this as we can all learn something to make our riding better, perhaps a better/co-ordinated system of teaching, rather than being proud of the fact that you didn't have to stop the wheels moving at any traffic lights

JZS 600 · « **Reply #39 on:** 02 July 2012, 10:40:37 am »

Yeah, there's all sorts in these clubs, we had one who could have been done for impersonating a ploice officer, what a twat!

Anyhoo, the guys I went out on runs with outside the IAM umbrella were a right bunch of lads that liked a thrap and a beer so not everyone in the IAM is so dour.

Having said which, I got a right bollocking from a bloke on a run once because he couldn't keep up on his Fireblade! I laughed my head off that day...

spider · « **Reply #40 on:** 02 July 2012, 12:13:20 pm »

i luv riding wif my advanced riding club. we ride out once a month. if it rains it rains.i neva stop learing. we done track day recently. the only problems i have seen has been people who join in with us for a ride. as they dont know the system. thats wen problems happen. yesterday a guy joined in 22 of us. we went along in a 40 mph limit zone he overtook a car at a junction whist puttin the bike up to approx 60mph and caused another rider to move out his way. when i asked him why he overtook at that point. his reply was to catch up with the bikes in front. then added you was all behind me... but. b4 i learned advanced riding i mite have done that sort of thing as well.

pitternator · « **Reply #41 on:** 03 July 2012, 07:27:47 am »

I also observed these complete double standards on group rideouts...usually the rule book got thrown out of the window on the way back....its this showboating and bragging of speeding , then next week telling someone off for going 3 mph over the limit, which made me lose credibility with the IAM.

I also have observed so many IAM riders excusing their behaviour by proclaiming " I was riding with the police ! " ...get real..its just speeding. Like any other biker.

I dont post up threads about how fast I rode last week, or how many cars I did big overtakes on. Thats my business.....and if I did, I am sure folk would get a bit bored with it all.

Phil TK · « **Reply #42 on:** 03 July 2012, 08:29:44 am »

Quote from: pitternator on 03 July 2012, 07:27:47 am

I also observed these complete double standards on group rideouts...usually the rule book got thrown out of the window on the way back....its this showboating and bragging of speeding , then next week telling someone off for going 3 mph over the limit, which made me lose credibility with the IAM.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has seen IAM riders riding like twats. Only last night I was following a bloke on a GS doing a bit of 'advanced' filtering. Sure, I was also riding a little bit like a hooligan but then if I was an IAM bod I would remove the green IAM sticker that he had back of his helmet.

IAM people should take note. We OBSERVE you guys too you know!

Grahamm · « **Reply #43 on:** 03 July 2012, 01:24:36 pm »

I was wondering how long it would be...

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

Phil TK · « **Reply #44 on:** 03 July 2012, 01:57:42 pm »

Quote from: Grahamm on 03 July 2012, 01:24:36 pm

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

So you think non-IAM riders like me and the rest of the unwashed don't know when it's safe to push the limits then.

I'm beginning to think the IAM hire a PR expert and make a point of doing the exact opposite that he reccomends.

richfzs · « **Reply #45 on:** 03 July 2012, 06:14:09 pm »

Quote from: Grahamm on 03 July 2012, 01:24:36 pm

I was wondering how long it would be...

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

That post is fairly offensive to anybody who isn't IAM. As Phil says, just because you're not IAM, doesn't mean you're not a safe rider. Equally so, being IAM doesn't mean you don't ride like a twat sometimes.

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group, mostly because I need it for something else I'm planning to do - it will be interesting to see what the guys in that group are like...

steeeve66 · « **Reply #46 on:** 03 July 2012, 06:27:27 pm »

Quote from: richfzs on 03 July 2012, 06:14:09 pm

Quote from: Grahamm on 03 July 2012, 01:24:36 pm
I was wondering how long it would be...

There's a difference between riding like a twat because you think you're immortal or you don't know any better or want to show off to your mates etc and knowing when it's safe to push the limits.

As I keep pointing out, Advanced Riding *isn't* about simply sticking rigidly to the rules no matter what the situation, it's applying them sensibly and flexibly and thinking about what you're doing.

That post is fairly offensive to anybody who isn't IAM. As Phil says, just because you're not IAM, doesn't mean you're not a safe rider. Equally so, being IAM doesn't mean you don't ride like a twat sometimes.

I've just sent off for my IAM "skills for life" course with the Northumbria group, mostly because I need it for something else I'm planning to do - it will be interesting to see what the guys in that group are like...

I've done the same here in Kent - will let you know I get on...

s

pitternator · « **Reply #47 on:** 03 July 2012, 06:36:23 pm »

thanks guys, your points reinforce why I get offended by folk posting / bragging about just what they did or didnt do...then start pontificating and trying to lecture the rest of us about " advanced riding "...I think it just puts people off doing the IAM. Yet ironically when I did it ...I reckon it was a useful bit of training. The image of the IAM justs pushes people away. Sanctimonious ....you fill in the expletives.

JZS 600 · « **Reply #48 on:** 03 July 2012, 08:17:37 pm »

I've done the IAM training but not the test (more fool me,, but that's another story)

I'm thinking of joining the local ROSPA group after the summer, I've got an appointment with the olympics that will suck up a bit of time, so it will be interesting to see what way the land lies there.

In the end, it's what you take away from it and what you put in to practice on a daily basis. I like riding my bike and and if I can keep on doing that safely for years to come (30+ years in the saddle so far) I'll be a happy man. And it's good fun being in a group of mostly like minded people who share the same interest.

MikeRBiker · « **Reply #49 on:** 03 July 2012, 10:12:09 pm »

Go for it. The IAM training is, as has been said, all about observation and making progress consistent with the conditions. Well worthwhile.

As for speeding, on the test the examiner is assessing your observation skills amongst others. If you exceed the speed limits how can they tell if you saw the limits and ignored them on purpose, or if you missed them completely, and your observation is therefore crap?

My IAM group ride to the law when out officially, but go out with them on a non-official ride and they ride like everyone else - but usually with better planning...