Charging problems

[red98]

Had to cut a ride short this morning. lost the clocks and indicators and when i stopped switched off it wouldn`t start again. fine this morning on cold start, stopped for fuel no problem then about 12 miles into the ride i lost rev counter and speedo but fuel gauge still working. bumped it to get it going but not too happy on tick over. open roads home so kept it in a lower gear with the revs up and got home. had a look and battery reads 12.4 volts. start up with a jump from a spare battery and no increase in volts even holding the revs at 5000 rpm. checked all conections, earth on the started motor was fine but the small white connector on top of the battery wasn`t quite pushed all the way home, bit corroded as well, cleaned up and back together now. checked the white connector under the tank and is good. a nice fit and clean. checked the reg/rec connector which was also clean. then removed the infill fairing on the left and checked the two black connector blocks. one of them is a bit corroded but IMO not enough to cause a problem. Cleaned now and back together, Battery on charge at the moment but i obviously have a problem...Iam thinking the rec/reg is not doing its job...Your thoughts please foccers

[robbo]

Hi Mr Red, that sounds exactly like the problem I had a few years ago. More than likely the reg/rec, it was in my case. I replaced it with a new one from Electrex World, who aren’t too far from you I think. I chose the model that has the output wired directly back to the battery, rather than via a plug. I managed to get home by buying a new battery and removing the fuse to the lights.

[red98]

Hi Robbo, Thanks for your reply. Yes electrex about 15 miles from me on good roads too...Battery charged to 13.4 v and back on the bike. starts easily but drains the battery to 12.6v and dosn`t recover even when holding at 5000 rpm for a couple of minutes.Forgot to mention checked the alternator with Haynes figures and its spot on, a spare i have measures the same so iam still thinking reg/rec...Going to look at a few breakers and see if they have one if not will go to electrex.
 

[b1k3rdude]

Those connectors need spraying with electrical cleaner, I can see the green death through out, which wont be helping matters.

[red98]

already done b1k3rdude  ...Took a chance on a reg/rec on ebay, £27 inc delivery, Should be with me on Wednesday...

[Gaz66]

Those connectors need spraying with electrical cleaner, I can see the green death through out, which wont be helping matters.

Agreed the connector is toast, it's not just the Green death you can see, its the Green death you can't see, where the copper loom wires are crimped into the male & female parts inside the plastic loom plugs ... you really need to continuity test each wire across these loom plugs, any that aren't flowing juice across need a jumper wire soldering across plug, a better method is buy a replacement loom plug, cut old one out & crimp/solder a new loom plug in, doesn't have to be same plug, even fit individual male/females crimps if that's all you have, even seen the loom plugs cut out completely & soldered, only problem with this method is when you need to pull the front end off you can't unplug from the main loom, my advise is replace the loom plug & say goodbye to the copper Green death, remove/clean & refit all earth points, also pull Kill switch apart for a proper clean out, check side stand & clutch lever switches are clean too, clutch switch does come apart, not sure if side stand switch does (can't remember)


Hope the above helps you sort the Gremlins

[red98]

Hi Gaz...Yes that does halp thank you. will continuity check every connection...Ive used spray contact cleaner and a small paint brush to clean all conectors and they have come up well but as you sayi dont know what else in hiding in the connector...if i find any that are under performing i will cut the offending plug out and solder in a new one...Thanks for the advise.


not the first time ive been bikeless over the last couple of years and i was looking forward to yesterdays ride with a couple of good friends on newer bikes. i do get a bit of stick about getting something newer. but both of my fazers are more than capable of keeping up, And what else is as good as a Fazer.
Roll on Wendesday when hopefully the reg/rec arrives

[robbo]

Mr.Red. One cheap gadget you could consider is a battery charging monitor. The one I went for is by Gammatronix. It's just a small led that's mounted by the speedo, and gives a colour indication as to charging or not. Just a thought .

[red98]

Hi Robbo. Yes, Was thinking that on the way home on sunday. Would of put my mind at rest a bit. Your idea of taking the fuse out for the headlights was good as well. Didn`t think of that on the day. Lucky i was only 12/15 miles from home.
REG/REC should be here today so will update later.


Have a good ,safe trip today Robbo. Look forward to your report/pictures on your return.

[agricola]

Mr.Red. One cheap gadget you could consider is a battery charging monitor. The one I went for is by Gammatronix. It's just a small led that's mounted by the speedo, and gives a colour indication as to charging or not. Just a thought .

Yes, that works. I did that on my old YX600 Radian when it had an intermittent charging problem, I mounted it on the bars

[red98]

REG/REC arrived today along with two new throttle cables i ordered from another ebayer. Straight out too the garage when i got in from work. simple to swap REG/REC two 10mm bolts and one block connector. started the bike with a multimeter across the battery and still no chaarge  ...


Time to think...before i stopped on sunday the clocks were dead but a fiddle with various connectors and fuses got them working again and with a push start i was able to get home. i Have checked the alternator with the specs in the haynes manual and they are fine, two reg/rec fitted with same results mabe i have been unlucky but the chances are slim. so iam now thinking its a wireing/connector problem. so as GAZ has already suggested i think i will by pass the dodgy looking connectors under the tank and recheck with the multi meter...Not good with electrics. checking plugs,earths and wiring is just not my thing but with a few days holiday booked next week and currently no bike to use i have no choice  [size=78%] [/size]

[unfazed]

You can check the output from the Stator easily. With everything connected.
Switch you meter to AC voltage, ensure the leads are in the correct position for measuring AC. (Some may need changing others do not)
Push the meter leads in to any 2 of the 3 white wires at the rear of the connector coming from  the Stator.
Start the bike leave it tick over voltage should over 16 volts AC. Rev the engine and the voltage will rise accordingly (could rise to 90 or 110 volts AC.
Be careful/cautious doing this as it can give you an electric  shock
Engine off, remove one lead and put it in to the third wire. Start the engine and check the voltage again.  If it rises according when revved the Stator is good.   
The most common charging issue on the Fazer 600 or 1000 is the connectors burning out.
The fuel injected FZ1 model is a totally different ballgame the generator explodes in those much easier to find the issue

[agricola]

This may help

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1091/5694/files/fault-finding-diagram.pdf?235929069374954073

[red98]

UNFAZER, AGRICOLA....Thank you for taking the time to reply thats going to be a huge help. 


Long day at work today followed by MOT for the car in the morning. If the car passes i will be back on the Fazer Saturday morning


Many thanks for your help.

[red98]

Good start to the day, Car passed its MOT  ...back home and in the garage following UNFAZED instructions to test the stator. iam getting 14/15 v on tick over rising to 80 v when held at 5000 rpm so looks like my stator is good. next step iam going to by pass the block connector soldering in a loop of 3 wires either side if the block connector... 

[robbo]

That was one reason I went for the Electrex World reg/rec as the wiring from the stator plug goes straight to the reg/rec via there own plug. The output goes straight to the battery. If I was at home I' ve got all the info from when I fitted it. The condition monitor was handy stuck in traffic on Friday, as my new sat nav seems to like a bit of juice, and with my phone on charge, the indicator showed the demand wasn't being met on tickover or slow speed. Unplug the phone and alls well. Then stuck the phone back on charge when back on the open road.

[red98]

Hi Robbo. Yes had a look at the Electrex website and iam impressed at what they do so thanks for the info. once i find the fault i will almost certainly fit a new reg/rec in the same way as you have. the  connector is definatly a week point in the circuit , Still getting no voltage increase when checked accross the battery. Double checking before i snip the connector off, Iam holding the multimeter connectors with one hand and un-pluging /pluging-in the block connector with the other . The plug is sloppy and comes apart easy even with one hand, Also when pushing together and holding it firm i get an increase in voltage at the battery. So looking good and time to cut the block connector off...What could possibly go wrong...


Going to have a cuppa and make a start... [size=78%] [/size]

[fazerscotty]

That was one reason I went for the Electrex World reg/rec as the wiring from the stator plug goes straight to the reg/rec via there own plug. The output goes straight to the battery. If I was at home I' ve got all the info from when I fitted it. The condition monitor was handy stuck in traffic on Friday, as my new sat nav seems to like a bit of juice, and with my phone on charge, the indicator showed the demand wasn't being met on tickover or slow speed. Unplug the phone and alls well. Then stuck the phone back on charge when back on the open road.

Robbo - have you got a link to the condition monitor?

[red98]

cut the loom and removed the connector block and soldered back together again, 30 mile test ride and all is good, 12.6 volts when idling, rising to 13.3 when held at 4000 rpm. little bit down compared to the 600 but better than it was. Out with a few mates tomorrow morning for a 160 ish mile ride out. will let you know how things go...

[agricola]

That was one reason I went for the Electrex World reg/rec as the wiring from the stator plug goes straight to the reg/rec via there own plug. The output goes straight to the battery. If I was at home I' ve got all the info from when I fitted it. The condition monitor was handy stuck in traffic on Friday, as my new sat nav seems to like a bit of juice, and with my phone on charge, the indicator showed the demand wasn't being met on tickover or slow speed. Unplug the phone and alls well. Then stuck the phone back on charge when back on the open road.

Robbo - have you got a link to the condition monitor?

This is the one I used, simple to install. I mounted mine through a bar mounted switch.


https://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe/Categories/Category2

[red98]

153 mile test ride yesterday with a few friends. To much amusement  from said friends i took my multimeter to keep an eye on things. bike ran perfect throuh out the day. Made the mistake of jumping to conclusions and buying the reg/rec and not checking the easy things first  . But a useful spare to have in the shed. Hopefully one i wont be needing. bikes so good iam off out again today. will pull over at 11.55am for two minutes silence to show my respect to the queen but more important to those family members she leaves behind.


Thanks to all that posted replies and helping me solve the problem. Much appreaciated 

[fazerscotty]

That was one reason I went for the Electrex World reg/rec as the wiring from the stator plug goes straight to the reg/rec via there own plug. The output goes straight to the battery. If I was at home I' ve got all the info from when I fitted it. The condition monitor was handy stuck in traffic on Friday, as my new sat nav seems to like a bit of juice, and with my phone on charge, the indicator showed the demand wasn't being met on tickover or slow speed. Unplug the phone and alls well. Then stuck the phone back on charge when back on the open road.

Robbo - have you got a link to the condition monitor?

This is the one I used, simple to install. I mounted mine through a bar mounted switch.


https://gammatronixltd.com/epages/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/bae94c71-c5b6-4572-89a1-e89006e78fbe/Categories/Category2

Thanks Robbo - that switch looks a bit ancient lol 

[midden]

cut the loom and removed the connector block and soldered back together again, 30 mile test ride and all is good, 12.6 volts when idling, rising to 13.3 when held at 4000 rpm. little bit down compared to the 600 but better than it was. Out with a few mates tomorrow morning for a 160 ish mile ride out. will let you know how things go...

Do you have any pictures to show what you actually did Paul

[robbo]

That was one reason I went for the Electrex World reg/rec as the wiring from the stator plug goes straight to the reg/rec via there own plug. The output goes straight to the battery. If I was at home I' ve got all the info from when I fitted it. The condition monitor was handy stuck in traffic on Friday, as my new sat nav seems to like a bit of juice, and with my phone on charge, the indicator showed the demand wasn't being met on tickover or slow speed. Unplug the phone and alls well. Then stuck the phone back on charge when back on the open road.

Robbo - have you got a link to the condition monitor?

Still on my French trip and haven't been on site gor a few days. Mine was from Gammatronix and doublea as a dummy alarm as flashes when ignition is off. Back on Friday.

[red98]

cut the loom and removed the connector block and soldered back together again, 30 mile test ride and all is good, 12.6 volts when idling, rising to 13.3 when held at 4000 rpm. little bit down compared to the 600 but better than it was. Out with a few mates tomorrow morning for a 160 ish mile ride out. will let you know how things go...

Do you have any pictures to show what you actually did Paul

Hi Midden...Sorry no.I do still have the connector and when i get time will take a piccie and you can see how bad it is. I just snipped the wire`s either side of the block and soldered a new piece in, two joins in each wire. Not ideal i know. Next job will be to source a replacement connector block, De-solder my tempoary repair and do a propper job.