Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Robbie8666 on 15 May 2017, 10:58:39 pm
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I hope it was a slow painful death!! never understood why he wasn't given a death sentence!
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It's a terrible thing to have done to anyone let alone little children.
I saw a television prog a number of years ago now just after the time Myra Hindley passed away (2002) and they interviewed two sets of parents of children that the moors murderers had killed.
One family had come to terms with the death of their child and had in their hearts decided to forgive the killers and try to move on, they had other children and had a happy family life together, but they said that they will always miss their child that was taken from them but they did not want that loss to dominate the whole of their lives and the lives of their other children.
The other family/couple had divorced but came back together for the TV programme but they were filled with hate (Understandable in many ways) they despised each other and apportioned blame on one and other, saying things like you should have kept more of a check on him and if you had this would never have happened. Their lives had been dominated with the thoughts of revenge and hatred towards the Moors Killers, in fact they were consumed with hate.
I honestly believe those parents were more prisoners that the Moors Killers.
The parents who had forgiven and tried to let go and move on were a happy family with a sad history they had to try to come to terms with, as much as you ever could. They were free unlike the other couple.
I know it's OK and easy for me to write this from a distance, but just look at the two end products, what do you think is the best.
tommyardin
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fair point you make there Tommy and having never experienced that kind of loss or pain, wouldn't know how I would cope in those circumstances.
IMHO i still think that serial killers when found guilty should be sentenced to death. I am only on about serial killers / mass murderers ie Sutcliff / west/ brady & Hindley etc where it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that they were guilty and premeditated.
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I'm with you on that score Robbie. There are principles that should be adhered to, an eye for an eye and let the penalty fit the crime both come to mind.
These principles are not about revenge as some seem to think, but that the penalty is equal to the crime, if you take someone life like that you should forfeit your own.
Both of the Moors Murders admitted guilt and tried to help the police find some of the bodies, so there was no doubt as to their guilt.
As you say it is easy to stand back and spout forth about the right and wrong way to respond, but I have never had one of my children cruelly snatched away from me.
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I have no real thoughts on his death, he spent most of his life behind bars, punishment enough, I don't know, I just hope he came to loathe himself and thought about those poor kids every time he saw his refection in the mirror.
As for the death penalty, I think history has proven how unreliable beyond reasonable doubt can be.
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I have no real thoughts on his death, he spent most of his life behind bars, punishment enough, I don't know, I just hope he came to loathe himself and thought about those poor kids every time he saw his refection in the mirror.
As for the death penalty, I think history has proven how unreliable beyond reasonable doubt can be.
Did he bollocks!!!
If there was an ounce of compassion in this piece of shit he could have eased the pain on the parents of the kids he tortured and murdered by giving hints at their final resting place, but he couldn't care less and almost became smug at the power he had over them.
He was a perfect candidate for the death penalty, without any doubt whatsoever, and worse still i wouldn't be surprised if he killed even more people but kept quiet about it.
I feel the same way about these complete wankers who've started using acid as a weapon over here, in my mind that's just pure intentional and premeditated evil and you deserve a 'real' life sentence for it, 'cos that's what the victims will have to endure. Like that coked up Essex boy prick recently who sprayed 20 odd people in a nightclub. Firstly you have to do research about exactly what damage it can do, then purchase it, then hide it to get it into a club, then actually use it to intentionally maim people, for life. Totally premeditated, and i believe he even blinded 2 people in the process. If ever the term 'an eye for an eye' sounded very reasonable, this is certainly one of those justifiably rare occasions.
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That piece of shit cost this country Millions of pounds over the last 50 years to keep him alive and locked up.
A 9mm round is less than 50p.
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I'm glad he's dead but the very sad thing is, he took the whereabouts of Keith Bennetts body to the grave with him. . I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power. Mrs Bennett must be extremely upset today, my thoughts are with her. Brady was Pure fucking evil and I'm with darrsi on this
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Mrs Bennett must be extremely upset today, my thoughts are with her.
I am sure she would have been. Unfortunately she died 5 years ago not knowing where her son was.
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fuck me BB, I feel a right goon now :rolleyes..........it only seems like yesterday that she was on the news asking him to help find her son. Having said all that, I've lost nearly 2 years looking after the Mrs and the time has flown.
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I hope it was a slow painful death!! never understood why he wasn't given a death sentence!
To many do-gooders were trying to abolish the death penalty, I would have sent the bastard the trapdoor.
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I hope it was a slow painful death!! never understood why he wasn't given a death sentence!
To many do-gooders were trying to abolish the death penalty, I would have sent the bastard the trapdoor.
The trapdoor would be too quick, Brady and every other child molesting, murdering bastard should be just locked up in a dungeon together and left to rot and slowly die and every time another one is caught just shove them in with the rotting bodies.
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I hope it was a slow painful death!! never understood why he wasn't given a death sentence!
Theres was the first trial to be held after the abolition of the death penalty, so it was never a option.
Although i agree they both deserved it, it took some time for them to reveal the graves of their victims, he died not revealing the last grave, so in this instance i think it was right they weren't hanged. having said that i would of made the pricks suffer, withholding care for his disease for a start.
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At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.
Of course it was. Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention. Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.
The public are his audience, and he has played to them.
As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt. Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system. They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time. An eye for an eye indeed.
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VNA,this thread is about a child murdering bastard so you can foc off with your political crap.
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I don't get the hate the public show towards the murderers, sure I expect it from family and friends but from the general public? It's not the correct response! To be repulsed by the crime, of course, any crimes directed at children are disgusting, but surely the anger is for those close to the victim!
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At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.
Of course it was. Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention. Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.
The public are his audience, and he has played to them.
As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt. Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system. They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time. An eye for an eye indeed.
So to summarise you ^^^
Murdering people and disposing of their bodies so no one can ever find them is disgusting [Brady] and an act of control.
Carrying out 'justice', that is false [Guildford Four] is also disgusting.
Invoking the death sentence in an eye-for-an-eye way is satiate a public baying for blood.
Well who did all of the above for 40 years, the IRA/INLA and their bastard offspring still carrying out 'extrajudicial killings', aka punishment killings [often these days in republican heartlands]:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-the-ruddy-family-are-true-heroes-compared-to-cowards-who-abducted-and-killed-seamus-35697163.html (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/why-the-ruddy-family-are-true-heroes-compared-to-cowards-who-abducted-and-killed-seamus-35697163.html)
Jean McConville never got a hearing and was summarily executed by scum, her body hidden, her killers became suit wearing politicians laughing at committing a crime and getting off scot free. Perhaps Brady's mistake was not hiding behind some political BS.
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I dont believe in protecting the human rights of killers (if you want rights don't do the crime), I also think the death penalty is utterly unreversible and so can only be actioned where evidence is irrefutable (CCTV and DNA combined), I just think scum like Brady should do hard labour, not luxuries, no voice, no heat, no artificial light. Make the punishment a hell, so if just one potential murder is prevented it becomes worth it. Why did we spend £8m on Brady? pennies would be too much.
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So to summarise you ^^^
I think I was quite clear.
In any case your summary of my post seems to be longer than my post itself. :eek
Invoking the death sentence in an eye-for-an-eye way is satiate a public baying for blood.
Well who did all of the above for 40 years, the IRA/INLA and their bastard offspring still carrying out 'extrajudicial killings', aka punishment killings [often these days in republican heartlands]:
You seem to be a little selective here. Or do you approve of the UVF , UDA and UFF. And how exactly does framing and hanging innocent men help?
Perhaps Brady's mistake was not hiding behind some political BS.
Brady killed for pleasure. He is a true psychopath. He did whatever pleased him, whatever fascinated him. Psychopaths aren’t like ordinary people, they are wired up different.
Personally, I feel that hanging such people lets them off the hook. I can’t think of a greater punishment than being locked up for life. Further I don’t believe in killing, and I certainly don’t believe in the state killing in cold blood.
Make the punishment a hell
Prison should be about rehabilitation, not simply punishment. However, be clear you cannot rehabilitate psychopath.
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So to summarise you ^^^
I think I was quite clear.
In any case your summary of my post seems to be longer than my post itself. :eek
Invoking the death sentence in an eye-for-an-eye way is satiate a public baying for blood.
Well who did all of the above for 40 years, the IRA/INLA and their bastard offspring still carrying out 'extrajudicial killings', aka punishment killings [often these days in republican heartlands]:
You seem to be a little selective here. Or do you approve of the UVF , UDA and UFF. And how exactly does framing and hanging innocent men help?
Perhaps Brady's mistake was not hiding behind some political BS.
Brady killed for pleasure. He is a true psychopath. He did whatever pleased him, whatever fascinated him. Psychopaths aren’t like ordinary people, they are wired up different.
Personally, I feel that hanging such people lets them off the hook. I can’t think of a greater punishment than being locked up for life. Further I don’t believe in killing, and I certainly don’t believe in the state killing in cold blood.
Make the punishment a hell
Prison should be about rehabilitation, not simply punishment. However, be clear you cannot rehabilitate psychopath.
Like the IRA, I think the Loyalist Terrorists are scum, totally without justification. A front for drugs and other gangster activity, hiding behind a movement, pretending. I'd say abducting a mother, killing her despite her true pleas of innonence [because Adams didn't want to get locked up] and hiding her body reeks of psycopathic behaviour. It's certainly not a shot accross no mans land or retalatory gunfire.
I don't think prison should be about rehabilitation, not for serious offenders anyway. It should be about getting them off of the streets, so they cant endanger the rest of us and it should be unpleasant. I don't care about the nature of the murderer, i just dont want them anywhere near decent law abiding people. Pandering to killers is all a bit sick. Brady tortured children, his time in prison should have been horrid - the recording of the little girl is the mark of a pair of vile, vile pieces of inhuman filth - utterly unpleasant. We care too much about criminals rights in this country, we need to care about victims. Putting a roof over their heads and feeding them should be how we spend our money. If prisoners have to till the land to feed themselves, in hard labour, bloody good job.
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ote]
Prison should be about rehabilitation, not simply punishment.
Prison is also supposed to be a deterrent. If poor, deprived little Johnny Crackhead can expect an easy ride after terrorising his neighbourhood, he isn't likely to change his ways, is he?
As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt. Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system. They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time. An eye for an eye indeed.
The solution to this is to tighten up and reform policing and the legal system, to put in a reliable system of checks and balances; not to give every psychopathic scumbag an easy ride. Are you sure Brady was guilty of the Moors Murders? :rolleyes
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Personally I don't give a fuck that he's dead, I'm just glad he was caught and stopped from carrying on killing kids.
In my opinion the death sentence is wrong for two reasons; it's irreversible (like has been covered earlier in the thread), and it (like suicide) is an easy cop out for the criminal. As a tax payer I'd gladly pay to keep the likes of him in a steel box for the rest of their natural lives. No parole, no release, no end to the misery. Folk talk about the punishment fitting the crime, well if the victims' families have to live with the consequences of Brady's actions for life, so should he.
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At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.
Of course it was. Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention. Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.
The public are his audience, and he has played to them.
As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt. Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system. They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time. An eye for an eye indeed.
I personally see nothing wrong with VNA's post it seems well thought out and reasoned, just because someone thinks different to the way others do it does not make the opinion invalid.
As commented, beyond reasonable doubt is allowed in British law, and who can say with absolute 100% certainty anything, there will always be doubt because we all see things through our own personal experiences or our own coloured spectacles.
The fact that Brady took the police to the Moors and disclosed where some of the bodies were buried has moved it beyond reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
I personally think that his life should have been forfeit, but had that happened a lot of the murdered children would never have received a decent burial and parents not given the opportunity to lay their child to rest.
The people who actually had to make these sort of decisions as to who would live and who would die have to live with the outcome of their decisions, and people are fickle and change their mind at the drop of a hat.
For Example:
The Bible story of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey people were calling out Hosanna, a verbal expression of Glory, adoration and joy, they were also laying palm branches in His path, palm branches meant well-being and victory, these people saw Jesus as someone who would save them from the domination of the Roman Empire.
These very same people that cried Hosanna and laid palm branches in His path were the very same ones who a few days later cried out crucify him.
Whatever you do and whatever decisions you make, someone or some group will always say you made the wrong decision, it's human nature. People are and always will be fickle, their minds are changed by the slightest gust or wind and I number myself amongst them.
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At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.
Of course it was. Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention. Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.
The public are his audience, and he has played to them.
As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt. Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system. They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time. An eye for an eye indeed.
I personally see nothing wrong with VNA's post it seems well thought out and reasoned, just because someone thinks different to the way others do it does not make the opinion invalid.
As commented, beyond reasonable doubt is allowed in British law, and who can say with absolute 100% certainty anything, there will always be doubt because we all see things through our own personal experiences or our own coloured spectacles.
The fact that Brady took the police to the Moors and disclosed where some of the bodies were buried has moved it beyond reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
I personally think that his life should have been forfeit, but had that happened a lot of the murdered children would never have received a decent burial and parents not given the opportunity to lay their child to rest.
The people who actually had to make these sort of decisions as to who would live and who would die have to live with the outcome of their decisions, and people are fickle and change their mind at the drop of a hat.
For Example:
The Bible story of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey people were calling out Hosanna, a verbal expression of Glory, adoration and joy, they were also laying palm branches in His path, palm branches meant well-being and victory, these people saw Jesus as someone who would save them from the domination of the Roman Empire.
These very same people that cried Hosanna and laid palm branches in His path were the very same ones who a few days later cried out crucify him.
Whatever you do and whatever decisions you make, someone or some group will always say you made the wrong decision, it's human nature. People are and always will be fickle, their minds are changed by the slightest gust or wind and I number myself amongst them.
What the feck are you chatting about now???
It was bad enough getting political, now you're bringing fairy stories into the equation? :rolleyes
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Why give this monster the satisfaction of our anger, It's a good time to remember his innocent victims.
RIP little ones.
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At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.
Of course it was. Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention. Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.
The public are his audience, and he has played to them.
As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt. Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four? Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system. They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time. An eye for an eye indeed.
I personally see nothing wrong with VNA's post it seems well thought out and reasoned, just because someone thinks different to the way others do it does not make the opinion invalid.
As commented, beyond reasonable doubt is allowed in British law, and who can say with absolute 100% certainty anything, there will always be doubt because we all see things through our own personal experiences or our own coloured spectacles.
The fact that Brady took the police to the Moors and disclosed where some of the bodies were buried has moved it beyond reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
I personally think that his life should have been forfeit, but had that happened a lot of the murdered children would never have received a decent burial and parents not given the opportunity to lay their child to rest.
The people who actually had to make these sort of decisions as to who would live and who would die have to live with the outcome of their decisions, and people are fickle and change their mind at the drop of a hat.
For Example:
The Bible story of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey people were calling out Hosanna, a verbal expression of Glory, adoration and joy, they were also laying palm branches in His path, palm branches meant well-being and victory, these people saw Jesus as someone who would save them from the domination of the Roman Empire.
These very same people that cried Hosanna and laid palm branches in His path were the very same ones who a few days later cried out crucify him.
Whatever you do and whatever decisions you make, someone or some group will always say you made the wrong decision, it's human nature. People are and always will be fickle, their minds are changed by the slightest gust or wind and I number myself amongst them.
What the feck are you chatting about now???
It was bad enough getting political, now you're bringing fairy stories into the equation? :rolleyes
See Darrsi's comment is exactly what I was saying about people all having an opinion and believing that opinion to be the right one.
I am not talking about religion, I am talking about History, events that have been recorded in numerous books, events that tie up with other History books of that time and that fit in and line up with Roman records and Roman Emporeres that were in power at that time and and Jewish records, who most do not believe that this Jesus was who he claimed to be in any way, but they did not deny his existence because they recorded him in there writings.
History has recorded that the story of Jesus to be is a true story, now whether he was who He claimed to be or just a deluded individual you make your own mind up, but history is history and for someone to say off the top of their head this or that is just a fairy story is absolutely unbelievable. It would be the same as me saying Christopher Columbus never existed or Ceaser was a figment of someone's imagination. You can not say theses are Fairy Stories cos you were not there.
I know this has now moved this post to a completely different place and my apologies about that, but to completely write something off as a fairy story just because they have made a dicission for themself or choose not to believe it is ridiculous because if it is true it is true and your choice will make not one jot or tittle of difference to the truth. Passionately believing something that is not true makes a person gullible, passionately disbelieving something that is true makes a person arrogant.
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Why not just throw old Noah into the mix, who supposedly died aged 950. :eek
If it wasn't so utterly ridiculous then it may actually be laughable.
But if it was written in a book then it must be true. :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Politics and religion make fairy stories seem normal.
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Prison is also supposed to be a deterrent. If poor, deprived little Johnny Crackhead can expect an easy ride after terrorising his neighbourhood, he isn't likely to change his ways, is he?
I sure don’t fancy prison.
Talking about your Johnny Crackhead, I remember reading of one long running experimental prison rehabilitation programme. Basically, first time offenders like Johnny Crackhead were offered to be part of a fast track rehabilitation programme. In exchange for active participation and good behaviour their sentence could be significantly reduced. But first the victim had to agree to this and also to taking part. The idea was that young or first time offenders like Johnny would have to face up to their crimes. There were various aspects to the scheme, but one key part was several sessions sitting down face to face with the victim of whatever their crime was.
There was also a TV documentary about said scheme. The effect on the offender was startling. Nor was it easy viewing. I can’t remember the precise stats for the experiment, but it was something in the order of those whom participated in it were 3 or 4 times less likely to re-offend then those who didn’t take part. It was, in other words, fantastically successful.
As far as I know most of these schemes have been ditched.
As we can see on this thread rehabilitation of offenders is not popular and frankly not a vote winner.
Hang em, beat em, let them rot etc is much more popular. So brain dead banging on about being tough on crime and talking pish aboot punishing criminals etc, rather than rehabilitating them, wins votes. But the fact is a brutal prison system that has no interests in rehabilitation breeds hardened criminals and subsequently we all suffer.
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So rehab for the offender, and what support did their victims get?
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I've got no problem with rehabilitation but that doesn't mean prison can't be hell for the people in it.
I can't see why they have niceties. There shouldn't be tvs, pool tables, gyms etc etc it should be a room with a bed and a piss hole.
Their time should involve 3 meals a day, 6 hours work, 4 hours rehabilitation, 1 hour outside and that should be that until the times up
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Hey like I say, you can send em to hell and they'll come out harder, even more fucked up, detached from society and guranteed to cause mayhem and re-offend.
Or you can strike a balance between punishment and investing in rehabilitation and release people ready to become part of society and unlikely to reoffend.
But like I say, macho, testosterone fuelled brain dead bull shit is the vote winner, so our prisons are a little light on the rehabilitation projects.
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Why not just throw old Noah into the mix, who supposedly died aged 950. :eek
If it wasn't so utterly ridiculous then it may actually be laughable.
But if it was written in a book then it must be true. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Oh Darrsi!,
The hat of arrogance fits you so well and I feel the style also suits you.
I was, and am, talking about recorded history not just in a religious book (Which you seem to believe is a book of Fairy Stories) but also in secular history books and documents. Some of the records talk about how he was despised, these people were not his friends and some spoke harshly about him, why would they do that if he did not exist.
Noah I know very little about, you seem to know more about him than I do, I did not know he allegedly lived to 950 years of age, now that does seem unbelievable as most die from heart disease or cancer or some other equally vile cause in this modern world. (note I said does seem unbelievable)
We should all be willing to be more open minded and not jump to conclusions or desissions about things that don't sit comfortably with us, just because you choose not to believe something does not make it untrue.
I have met a couple of guys in my life time that utterly refused to believe their wife was being unfaithful to them, because it was uncomfortable and painful so it was easier to deny it, but I'm afraid denial does not change fact.
You know I still think the world is flat and if I ride my Fazer all day and night long I will fall off the edge, because I don't believe what someone once said.
You would OK though Darrsi because you would probably not be able to get yours started, so you would not fall off the edge, but we would all certainly hear the backfiring.
:finger
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Hey like I say, you can send em to hell and they'll come out harder, even more fucked up, detached from society and guranteed to cause mayhem and re-offend.
Or you can strike a balance between punishment and investing in rehabilitation and release people ready to become part of society and unlikely to reoffend.
But like I say, macho, testosterone fuelled brain dead bull shit is the vote winner, so our prisons are a little light on the rehabilitation projects.
:)
They are in the prison costing us a shed full of money it would cost next to nothing more to have a rehab programme in place and if it only stopped 10% from re-offending it would be worth it.
Sometimes showing someone a little kindness and interest produces results for the better, not always I'm sure, but sometimes it will.
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They are in the prison costing us a shed full of money it would cost next to nothing more to have a rehab programme
I think that’s the problem. Rehabilitation programs whilst they may not cost a fortune, well they ain’t exactly cheap either. They add to costs in the short term, but enable massive savings in the long term.
Sometimes showing someone a little kindness and interest produces results for the better, not always I'm sure, but sometimes it will.
Personally I’m not sure I give a flying fuck about certain criminal types. Frankly if short, sharp, shock borstals or long term harsh heavy labour camps worked and turned out well balanced, socially minded individuals determined to make their way in society and never to reoffend, well hey that would be fine by me. It sure sounds satisfying.
But, sadly, the reality is such policy has been proven to fail, and worse still, interestingly enough, has a habit of attracting sadistic individuals as employees. Such facilities have been proven to turn out large numbers of 5 star total nutters. Whatever goes in comes out five times more fucked up.
On the other hand, educational rehabilitation centres that force criminals to face up to and take responsibility for their actions are proven to turn out large numbers of reformed decent individuals determined to become valued members of society.
My interest is simple, it’s only in being able to live in a civilised society, not having to worry too much about being done over, have my house broken into, or having large chunks of my tax cash wasted on dumb boot camps that are proven not to work.
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Oh and I should point out again, that when I mention rehabilitation I'm talking about full blown psychopaths - like Brady.
People identified as and diagnosed as psychopaths are not suitable for rehabilitation. If the diagnosis is correct, then it is not possible to rehabilitate them in any shape or form. A psychopath with serious criminal habits will always reoffend.
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Oh and I should point out again, that when I mention rehabilitation I'm talking about full blown psychopaths - like Brady.
People identified as and diagnosed as psychopaths are not suitable for rehabilitation. If the diagnosis is correct, then it is not possible to rehabilitate them in any shape or form. A psychopath with serious criminal habits will always reoffend.
So, in your words, if they're untreatable then what should be done with them?
So far all he's done is mock people for his own pleasure. He's shown zero remorse and if he'd ever released the whereabouts of the lost boy then his game would be up, so that was his lifetime of leverage.
I"m amazed nobody inside never made a mess of him to be truthful.
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Oh and I should point out again, that when I mention rehabilitation I'm not talking about full blown psychopaths - like Brady.
People identified as and diagnosed as psychopaths are not suitable for rehabilitation. If the diagnosis is correct, then it is not possible to rehabilitate them in any shape or form. A psychopath with serious criminal habits will always reoffend.
Can't argue with that.
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I was once told by a judge (yes I actually know one, and occasionally have a beer with him, well he drinks wine but you get my drift) and he told me that offenders do not go to prison to be punished but hopefully rehabilitated, having their liberty taken away for that period is the punishment.
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So, in your words, if they're untreatable then what should be done with them?
.
Today it’s pretty much accepted that true psychopaths are untreatable. From treatments or rehabilitation, they simply learn how to be ‘better’ psychopaths. They are simply wired up differently from the rest of us. Some of the attempts to rehabilitate fully blown psychopaths and release them into society are, umm, well, interesting – to say the least.
Bear in mind that not all psychopaths are of the child murdering throat slitting variety. Many psychopaths know how to play by the rules and live their lives amongst us (it is said a high proportion of CEOs and company chairmen are psychopathic). Psychopaths are simply extreme sociopaths totally without conscience. Conscience is not something they can understand and they are not capable of it.
That’s the long answer. The short answer is make sure they can do no harm. If they have failed to live by the rules you lock em up for life. There's no point at any attempt to rehabilitate, and I dont believe in the death sentence (you need a fucking sociopath to carry it out FFS!)
Oh, how about Theresa May? She’s a possible psychopath. Though personally I suspect she merely suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, ditto Donald Trump.
Psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists are all often extremely good at observation and working out what people want and how to charm them. They are very often experts at telling people what they want to hear in a very convincing manner. If highly intelligent, like Tony Blair, they have an awful habit of rising to the top of the shit heap.
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So, in your words, if they're untreatable then what should be done with them?
.
Today it’s pretty much accepted that true psychopaths are untreatable. From treatments or rehabilitation, they simply learn how to be ‘better’ psychopaths. They are simply wired up differently from the rest of us. Some of the attempts to rehabilitate fully blown psychopaths and release them into society are, umm, well, interesting – to say the least.
Bear in mind that not all psychopaths are of the child murdering throat slitting variety. Many psychopaths know how to play by the rules and live their lives amongst us (it is said a high proportion of CEOs and company chairmen are psychopathic). Psychopaths are simply extreme sociopaths totally without conscience. Conscience is not something they can understand and they are not capable of it.
That’s the long answer. The short answer is make sure they can do no harm. If they have failed to live by the rules you lock em up for life. There's no point at any attempt to rehabilitate, and I dont believe in the death sentence (you need a fucking sociopath to carry it out FFS!)
Oh, how about Theresa May? She’s a possible psychopath. Though personally I suspect she merely suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, ditto Donald Trump.
Psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists are all often extremely good at observation and working out what people want and how to charm them. They are very often experts at telling people what they want to hear in a very convincing manner. If highly intelligent, like Tony Blair, they have an awful habit of rising to the top of the shit heap.
The amount of people i've heard say it's about time the long haul prisoner Charles Bronson (Salvador) should be released now just astonishes me, because the man is only a victim of his own wrongdoings over the years.
He can't control or behave himself whatsoever, and the thought of him being let out into today's world where the level of general respect towards other people has probably all but vanished in comparison to when he was last roaming free would most likely end in him being back inside on the same day.
The price of a pint would probably be enough to push him over the edge for starters.
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Why not just throw old Noah into the mix, who supposedly died aged 950. :eek
If it wasn't so utterly ridiculous then it may actually be laughable.
But if it was written in a book then it must be true. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Oh Darrsi!,
The hat of arrogance fits you so well and I feel the style also suits you.
I was, and am, talking about recorded history not just in a religious book (Which you seem to believe is a book of Fairy Stories) but also in secular history books and documents. Some of the records talk about how he was despised, these people were not his friends and some spoke harshly about him, why would they do that if he did not exist.
Noah I know very little about, you seem to know more about him than I do, I did not know he allegedly lived to 950 years of age, now that does seem unbelievable as most die from heart disease or cancer or some other equally vile cause in this modern world. (note I said does seem unbelievable)
We should all be willing to be more open minded and not jump to conclusions or desissions about things that don't sit comfortably with us, just because you choose not to believe something does not make it untrue.
I have met a couple of guys in my life time that utterly refused to believe their wife was being unfaithful to them, because it was uncomfortable and painful so it was easier to deny it, but I'm afraid denial does not change fact.
You know I still think the world is flat and if I ride my Fazer all day and night long I will fall off the edge, because I don't believe what someone once said.
You would OK though Darrsi because you would probably not be able to get yours started, so you would not fall off the edge, but we would all certainly hear the backfiring.
:finger
Are you still talking about him? (yaaaawn)
People "documented" as living for over 900 years old does tend to stick in my mind, mainly because it's complete and utter fabricated bullshit, and not physically possible due to a mountainous list of reasons, which if you can't comprehend then that's not my problem.
You carry on and read your book fella, it's not affecting my daily life whatsoever. I'm only 750 years young, wait 'til i'm older though and i'll prove it was all nonsense. :rollin
ps: the bike starts and runs just fine. :)
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Rehab is fine if you catch them young or its a first offence. Too often we see habitual criminals on the tv where they have done community service, had fines, had probation and several jail terms and still have fresh offence lists as long as your arm to be "taken into consideration" when they appear in court where they are then told "don't do it again, pay us £10p per week and fec off out of my court". That's not a deterrent, that's just paying 10p per week for the huge amount of crack they bought by selling our stolen stuff. Prison doesn't work on these people. Removal of hands might teach them though.
More serious offenders like armed robbers, yes prison. A stint in there may teach them to straighten up their ways. after that.....
The most serious offenders, like Brady, who knew what they were doing and we have evidence to prove it, are beyond rehabilitation. Death penalty here.
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Why not just throw old Noah into the mix, who supposedly died aged 950. :eek
If it wasn't so utterly ridiculous then it may actually be laughable.
But if it was written in a book then it must be true. :rollin :rollin :rollin
Oh Darrsi!,
The hat of arrogance fits you so well and I feel the style also suits you.
I was, and am, talking about recorded history not just in a religious book (Which you seem to believe is a book of Fairy Stories) but also in secular history books and documents. Some of the records talk about how he was despised, these people were not his friends and some spoke harshly about him, why would they do that if he did not exist.
Noah I know very little about, you seem to know more about him than I do, I did not know he allegedly lived to 950 years of age, now that does seem unbelievable as most die from heart disease or cancer or some other equally vile cause in this modern world. (note I said does seem unbelievable)
We should all be willing to be more open minded and not jump to conclusions or desissions about things that don't sit comfortably with us, just because you choose not to believe something does not make it untrue.
I have met a couple of guys in my life time that utterly refused to believe their wife was being unfaithful to them, because it was uncomfortable and painful so it was easier to deny it, but I'm afraid denial does not change fact.
You know I still think the world is flat and if I ride my Fazer all day and night long I will fall off the edge, because I don't believe what someone once said.
You would OK though Darrsi because you would probably not be able to get yours started, so you would not fall off the edge, but we would all certainly hear the backfiring.
:finger
Are you still talking about him? (yaaaawn)
People "documented" as living for over 900 years old does tend to stick in my mind, mainly because it's complete and utter fabricated bullshit, and not physically possible due to a mountainous list of reasons, which if you can't comprehend then that's not my problem.
You carry on and read your book fella, it's not affecting my daily life whatsoever. I'm only 750 years young, wait 'til i'm older though and i'll prove it was all nonsense. :rollin
ps: the bike starts and runs just fine. :)
Well I'm pleased your bike is running well now, ride safe because you don't want to end your 750 year reign of life just yet.
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If you read your bible you will know that it was the norm to live for 100s of years, some confuse the flood with the notion that god after the flood then restricted mans lifespan to 120 years, which is not correct the 120 years was how much longer god was willing to put up with the evil corrupt ways of man and breeding with the fallen before he would bring the flood upon the earth.
Noah was 500 when he was given the heads up by god
I consider myself agnostic by the way, but I have read a lot of the bible and intend to read all the religions books at some stage. But I dont ride my bike enough as it is.
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I consider myself agnostic by the way,
I used to think I was agnostic, then I realised I wasn't too sure about it.
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I consider myself agnostic by the way,
I used to think I was agnostic, then I realised I wasn't too sure about it.
Exactly
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That's when I realised I was an atheist.
Pet hate is Jehova's Winess types knocking on my door;
Me - Goodday but no thanks I'm an atheist.
God's cold caller - You know I used to be like that too.
Me - no you didn't. Goodbye.
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That's when I realised I was an atheist.
Pet hate is Jehova's Winess types knocking on my door;
Me - Goodday but no thanks I'm an atheist.
God's cold caller - You know I used to be like that too.
Me - no you didn't. Goodbye.
.
I have got myself on the Jo-hos black list of "do not call" after a very long debate with them on religious issues I wouldnt let them go (good reason to avail yourself of the bible) oh and aliens I think is what swung it for me.
I found out when I asked them once why they dont call anymore when I was out in front of my house and they were passing and was told that my house has been put on a "No Call" list :rollin
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Me, just like Sharpie, open minded and interested in all sorts of history, and the history of the Bible is interesting. It has shaped and moulded many nations and some were so convinced of its truth that they lived their lives under it's authority. A life of selfless sacrifice serving others. Now it might not be your cup of tea, but many have benefited from their sacrifice.
The likes of Lord Shaftesbury (Anthony Ashley Cooper) and Dr Bernardo were Christians and did amazing things with their wealth to help others because they were convinced of the truth that they read in the Scriptures.
It also is/was the way this country was governed and shaped for many years, its apart of our roots and heritage. Again I'm not saying it was all good and that people sometimes got it wrong with decisions made, but overall this country was a better place to live for most people because of our Christian routes. Aged parents lived with their families and were looked after by their children, now days we put them in a home were people who often don't even have the same language look after them/keep them quiet, they are often lonely and sad and they live out their last few years in isolation. To be honest I'm hoping for better things.
Who knows I might even go and live with Darrsi and his family he seems to be going on for a long time as he is 750 years old already, what the chance Darrsi lol! :thumbup
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My method-
Good morning/afternoon sir, We're from the church of latter day saints/Jehovah/Pentecostal etc
Really? Wow, I didn't know he'd opened another branch!
They tend to leave after that opening gambit.
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My wife also rang up the local Jehovah Witnesses offices and asked them not to call anymore as we had many conversations with then over a few years, what seemed to happen was if a couple who came to the door did not make any headway with us after a few months they would stop coming and another couple would appear and we would start the whole process again.
Now I am not a Jehovah Witness, but, I do admired their commitment to their organisation, someone once said to me that they do what they do out of fear, apparently they believe that only a certain number of people will enter heaven when they die, and, the passport to entering is by getting as many converts to J/W as possible, but the trouble is they will never know if they have done enough until maybe it's to late.
I understand it is called a Salvation of works, trying to earn favour from God, the Bible say that it is a Gift of God, not something that is earned or merited in any way, but like any gift it has to be accepted. ???????
I did not really understand that principle and have been told it is like someone writing out a cheque or bank draft (10 Million pounds) filling in all the details and writing your name as the recipient at the top, the cheque is in your name the money is yours but you have to hold out your hand and take hold of it before it can be banked, I found this explanation very helpful.
The upshot of this is that we do not have the Jehovah Witnesses call anymore, in some ways I'm sorry about it as I quite enjoyed the chats, but it was very, very time consuming and not always at a convenient time.
What happened to Brady in this post he seems to be slowly disappearing, from where I am now in the write a comment section of FOC-U I can not see who started this post but would like to thank them for doing so as it has certainly opened up a bit of discussion about life the world and everything in it, so cheers Author :thumbup
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:lol
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The likes of Lord Shaftesbury (Anthony Ashley Cooper) and Dr Bernardo were Christians and did amazing things with their wealth to help others because they were convinced of the truth that they read in the Scriptures.
That makes a rather large assumption. It’s highly likely religion or no religion that they would have done what they did because of who they were not due whatever religion they followed. Morals and altruism are absolutely in no way whatsoever exclusive to religion. And there's plenty of down right nasty religous nutters out there.
It also is/was the way this country was governed and shaped for many years, its apart of our routes and heritage. Again I'm not saying it was all good and that people sometimes got it wrong with decisions made, but overall this country was a better place to live for most people because of our Christian routes.
Indeed, just a few hundred years ago the churches executed individuals for blasphemy. Atheists were routinely executed by the churches. Then there are the crusades – the least said about that the better eh? So yes our country is indeed founded on the evil deeds of religion. It’s now 2017 and only now are some of the churches in the UK coming to grips with the fact that some people are – wait for it – gay! – up till now most churches have promoted discrimination against gay people.
Aged parents lived with their families and were looked after by their children, now days we put them in a home were people who often don't even have the same language look after them/keep them quiet, they are often lonely and sad and they live out their last few years in isolation.
Having just spend years looking out for and looking after my parents, I can tell you there often comes a time when there is no other option to look at care home options. Particularly with dementia you will more than likely get to a point where it either simply not possible or frankly downright cruel to try and keep your parent or parents at home. I find your views on care of the elderly ignorant and breathtakingly simplistic.
What happened to Brady in this post he seems to be slowly disappearing, from where I am now in the write a comment section of FOC-U I can not see who started this post but would like to thank them for doing so as it has certainly opened up a bit of discussion about life the world and everything in it, so cheers Author ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])
I think perhaps what you have done is hijacked a thread in order to promote your own little pet subject ie that little voice in your head called God.
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Well I for one would gladly rather discuss Fairy tales (or religion as some call it) than talk about a child murdering fuck wit. Quite frankly the sooner he's forgotten about the better
I consider myself agnostic by the way,
Ricky Gervais hits the nail on the head when it comes to Agnostics.... he says "if your agnostic about the existence of God then you must also have the same view of Santa Clause" There isn't an argument for existence that can be made for one of them and not the other :-)
It's also makes a brilliant point about Christians in general saying " I'm and atheist, I don't believe in any of the say 2700 different Gods out there, Christians don't believe in 2699 of them either so they're almost as atheist as me"
Say what ya want about his acting but you cant fault the man's intelligence and logic
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:lol
Ha ha ha! one of my favourite films, in fact one of the funniest films I have ever seen.
Blessed are the Cheese Makers, did he say blessed are the Greek.
OK ok! I am the Messiah now FUCK OFF. LOL!
Sooo funny.
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The likes of Lord Shaftesbury (Anthony Ashley Cooper) and Dr Bernardo were Christians and did amazing things with their wealth to help others because they were convinced of the truth that they read in the Scriptures.
That makes a rather large assumption. It’s highly likely religion or no religion that they would have done what they did because of who they were not due whatever religion they followed. Morals and altruism are absolutely in no way whatsoever exclusive to religion. And there's plenty of down right nasty religous nutters out there.
It also is/was the way this country was governed and shaped for many years, its apart of our routes and heritage. Again I'm not saying it was all good and that people sometimes got it wrong with decisions made, but overall this country was a better place to live for most people because of our Christian routes.
Indeed, just a few hundred years ago the churches executed individuals for blasphemy. Atheists were routinely executed by the churches. Then there are the crusades – the least said about that the better eh? So yes our country is indeed founded on the evil deeds of religion. It’s now 2017 and only now are some of the churches in the UK coming to grips with the fact that some people are – wait for it – gay! – up till now most churches have promoted discrimination against gay people.
Aged parents lived with their families and were looked after by their children, now days we put them in a home were people who often don't even have the same language look after them/keep them quiet, they are often lonely and sad and they live out their last few years in isolation.
Having just spend years looking out for and looking after my parents, I can tell you there often comes a time when there is no other option to look at care home options. Particularly with dementia you will more than likely get to a point where it either simply not possible or frankly downright cruel to try and keep your parent or parents at home. I find your views on care of the elderly ignorant and breathtakingly simplistic.
What happened to Brady in this post he seems to be slowly disappearing, from where I am now in the write a comment section of FOC-U I can not see who started this post but would like to thank them for doing so as it has certainly opened up a bit of discussion about life the world and everything in it, so cheers Author ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])
I think perhaps what you have done is hijacked a thread in order to promote your own little pet subject ie that little voice in your head called God.
Don't you just love it when people debate with passion :)