Woking - self 24000mile service - wanna help me?

[darren_uk]

hi all!


Summary:  My bike's due for its 24000 mile service - it'll be the first service since i've had it - and I want to do it myself with someone's help, but I have neither the tools nor experience, only the enthusiasm and interest.


I have a May 2003 Yamaha FZS600 - bought April 2012 (6 months ago) to commute. Bought at 20000, now it's 24500.


It needs its 24000 mile service which my local yamaha reseller says is the big one.


In my first (introductory) posting on this site I briefly mentioned servicing and how I'd be interested in doing it myself.


But I'm a total noob and most definitely don't have the tools nor experience - only the interest and enthusiasm.
(tools - I just have a basic socket, spanner and allen key set - may be enough but don't have e.g. universal joint if required, not long extensions if required, and certainly don't have a torque wrench - I'd be happy to buy these though)


If you're interested in helping me out?   I could come to you or you could come to me (I have a garage we could work in)


Ideally next Sat or Sun (20/21oct) as I'd want my kids to watch too (which means ideally you'd need to come to Woking)


Send me a private message.


The alternative is I just book it in to my local yamaha dealer (just around the corner from me) and ask if I can watch them:  but that's expensive and money's an issue.   Cheaper than a replacement bike if my engine fails though during my commute though...


Darren

[Dave48]

Hi darren_uk,
Did you get the Haynes manual? As you say the 24,000m service is the big one. I know you use the bike for commuting but to do all the jobs in one day would be pushing iteven for a bike mechanic with full facilities! especially if you include the valve check. There is another way and that is to do some of the jobs each weekend. Depending on previous care/service history, and the fact youre using the bike daily I would concentrate on the safety related aspects first... eg tyres,brakes,electrical switches/connectors,tightness of fasteners etc., and the easy jobs like oil & filter change,plugs & air filter. Have you got the parts/materials you will need? The easy way out is to drop it off at dealer but that way you end up paying full rrp for parts & labour (£60+per hour) and 20% VAT on top.HOWEVER the dealer wont do all the little extra things like checking electrical connections. Hopefully someone near you with right tools/equipment will be able to help. Im not much use as im in West Mids!! Good luck!

[darren_uk]

Hi darren_uk,
Did you get the Haynes manual?

Just got back from Halfords with it




Hmm - so according to a knowledgeable colleague, the difference between my bike with a full service history and my bike with zero service history is around £300 on its selling price




Since posting, I've checked and I've got pretty much zero service history.  Even the one place I contacted that's serviced my bike at 20000 in 2010 (I bought it at 21000-ish in apr12) - they sent me a copy of the invoice, and it's just literally for lubes.  it looks like nothing was done.






Not sure whether to just give it to the place I bought it (local yamaha dealer / service centre) and get them to service it - they say 4 hours labour plus parts as you say - but I can't help feel that they've probably sold it to me a bit expensive anyway (£2500 apr12 and now I've discovered they put the service stamps themselves in on behalf of previous garages.   *sigh* - let the buyer beware and all that - but to give them another £400-£700 feels like I'm saying "yeah you shafted me - never mind, here's some more money")






I supposed I can view it as I'm buying reliability - and accept it I'm never gonna get a return on the service even if I sell it the day after...

[richfzs]

I've discovered they put the service stamps themselves in on behalf of previous garages.

Isn't that fraud?!!

[Dave48]

I would query the dealer putting stamps in book-on behalf of other garages. The only way they could legitimately do that would be with the other outfits paperwork to back up the entries.,in which case they should have given it to you.
Dont look on the cost of maintenance as something to increase resale value of bike-but as an investment in your riding safety/economy/pleasure. First thing I did when I bought the thou was start the service schedule from scratch-I will NEVER recoup the cost but its academic since my beauty is a "KEEPER!"

[DanielT]

I'll be due a 24000 service within a year and wouldn't dream of going to the Yamaha dealer.

If you decided to pay for the biggie and do your own servicing from then on, cant you find a local reliable, recommended bike workshop near you?

[His Dudeness]

what does this mystical 24,000 mile service involve?

[darrsi]

HisDudeness, i'm kinda wondering too......

[DanielT]

what does this mystical 24,000 mile service involve?

I know it involves a valve clearance check which is time consuming to open it all up. It's about £500 in real terms

[oldmotherfoccer]

deefer still runs his maintenance courses where you and your bike come to his workshop, you service yourbike yourself under his tuition you can always give him a call quite a few foccers on here, old and new have been over 07887 854614 he is based on the A14 (well not on it lol) near thrapston - so at the A1 side more than the M1 side but well worth the ride

[red98]

theres a big saving to be made here    and you will know exactly whats been done or will need to be done in the future 
haynes manual is going to be your friend here  start by making a list of what you think a 24,000 mile service should cover and no doubt a few foccers on here will add to that list,start with the easy stuff would suggest oil,oil filter,air filter and plug change and a good check over of all other service parts........as for valve clearences,i would be surprised if they need adjusting at 24,000,but a check,to put your mind at rest,is much easier than adjusting 

[wezdavo]

what does this mystical 24,000 mile service involve?

Acording to my sevice book for 24000 mile or 40000km
Apart from the obvious things like checking tyres, brakes, cables, hoses, bearings, fastners, shocks, idle, switches and signals..
The things that stand out are;
replace fuel filter
replace air filter
replace spark plugs
check valve clearence
lubricate swingarm with lithium soap based grease
lubricate steering bearings with lithium soap based grease
lubricate rear suspension relay and connecting arm pivot points with lithium soap based grease
check carbs for balance
replace engine oil and filter
replace coolant
lubricate all moving parts cables

And it also says to replace the internal components of the master cylinder and calipers and replace brake fluid every 2 years!!
And to replace the brake hoses every 4 years!!

Ouch!!!
 

[markbubble]

not sure on what garages you have near you but if you can do the bits you feel ok and got tools to do ,do them bits and keep reciepts for them ie spark plugs,oil and filter,air filter,adjust chain etc etc and the other bits get a smaller non dealer to do ,this way you get best of both ie all the work done but much cheaper and satisfy you done some yourself,i do all my own stuf and just keep reciepts and write milage down for them bits then if i ever do sell (not likley)theres proof of service

[darren_uk]

what does this mystical 24,000 mile service involve?

I know it involves a valve clearance check which is time consuming to open it all up. It's about £500 in real terms

Yes - the only extra thing is the valve clearance check.




I bought the Haynes manual yesterday and was cross-checking its service schedule with the Owner's Manual service schedule.




For some reason, I thought the cam-chain would have to be serviced:  it doesn't.   The *ONLY* extra thing on top of the other usual stuff is Valve Clearance check




And having gone through the section in the Haynes manual, to be honest it does look rather straight forward.  It's just a case of getting the cover off (which can be done with the engine in situ) and then using feeler guages.  If the valves are out of tolerance then just buy replacement shims and pop them into the top of the valves.




Haynes Manual's Difficulty Rating for this task is 3/5 spanners - and an oil change they class as 2/5 spanners.




I'm certainly feeling more confident about doing this myself - and in fact, all the servicing I now feel I can do it myself.




I think all I need to buy on top of my standard home-base £30 socket/spanner/allen-key set is:
- torque wrench
- the socket for the rear-axle for chain adjustment: my set goes up to 16mm only
- spark-plug socket because my under-seat toolkit, which had it, is missing.

[born to be mild]

My understanding is that the valve shims rarely need doing at 24 k, probably people with higher mileage bikes than my own can confirm.  Id get a set of vacuum guages for carb balancing, there used to be a posting on here with a video which is very good, change engine oil and filter, plugs, air filter and if Yamaha insist , fuel filter. Check the brake pad thickness and clean the caliper pistons and pins [ dont take the pistons out !]. Greasing the rear suspension linkage is a doddle compared to my Triumph so thats an easy one. Id do the job over two or three weekends, keep the reciepts for the parts if youre worried about the service history Vs bike value. Swap out the coolant, very easy, adjust and lube the chain DONT spray oil on it , check the tyre pressures then thats it, jobs a good 'un unless anyone can think of anything else. Keep refering to the Haynes, the best tool that youll buy and post on here with any questions.
Dont take it back to that rob dog dealer but it might be worth giving trading standards a ring about them given that they have sold you a bike under false pretences.

[His Dudeness]

deefer still runs his maintenance courses where you and your bike come to his workshop, you service yourbike yourself under his tuition you can always give him a call quite a few foccers on here, old and new have been over 07887 854614 he is based on the A14 (well not on it lol) near thrapston - so at the A1 side more than the M1 side but well worth the ride

that sounds like a great idea. learning how to do things properly the first time from someone experienced is definitely the way to go if you can. plus you have access to all of the right tools. saying something is a 3 spanner job or whatever is a load of rubbish imo. sure you can easily crack a sump doing an oil change or snap a stiff spark plug. if you can do the course with deefer or any other mechanic go for it

[darren_uk]

Oil filter and change today




Trip to Halford for:
- 3 x Castrol Power1 4T 10W40 @ £9.99 each = £30
- F307 oil filter £7
- 17mm spanner for oil drain plug (my socket set goes to 16mm)
- digital vernier, always wanted a set




Managed to spill most old oil over my garage floor as my drain can didn't quite get under the outpouring due to side stand in the way. Massive roll of blue cleanup paper to the rescue. Next time I'll use a cutout funnel. What do you use?


Screw driver hammered into old oil filter to lever it undone, wished I'd bought a filter socket.


Found that 2.7l wasn't quite enough, but probably not level surface between centre stand and front wheel. More like 2.9l went in, feeling that's too much...


Recycling centre closed so dumping old oil will wait to tomorrow


1pm deciding with kids to do this, including faffing around, reading, getting them involved, going shopping to Halfords, visiting recycling centre (on bike after change) and washing hands: 4hours to finish around 5.

[richfzs]

but probably not level surface between centre stand and front wheel. More like 2.9l went in, feeling that's too much...

You should be checking level with both wheels on the ground, not on the centre stand. Pull the bike vertical to check level (or get somebody to hold it for you, if not comfortable pulling the bike towards you as you crouch to see the gauge...)

[darren_uk]

You should be checking level with both wheels on the ground, not on the centre stand. Pull the bike vertical to check level (or get somebody to hold it for you, if not comfortable pulling the bike towards you as you crouch to see the gauge...)

Owner's Manual, page 6-9, "To check the engine oil level:  1. Place the motorcycle on the centerstand." - it doesn't subsequently (in the 4 steps) instruct to take the bike off the centerstand - implies leaving the bike on the centrestand


Haynes Manual, page 0-12 (took me a while to suss their page numbering!):  "Engine/transmission oil level check: On FZS models, put the motorcycle on its centrestand [different, *correct* spelling of 'centrestand'  ]" and subsequently (after letting it idle for several minutes to allow it to reach normal operating temperatures) "Stop the engine. Leave the motorcycle undisturbed for a few minutes to allow the oil level to stabilise." - again, the implication is to keep the bike on its centrestand.




(and my spell checker is suggesting I correct 'centerstand' to 'EastEnders'  - but centrestand it only suggests things like 'centre-stand'  )

[richfzs]

well bugger me. or, preferably, don't! But here is the 11th commandment - thou shalt not listen to random bloke on t'internet... I'll get me coat...

[darren_uk]

Spark Plug check gap and condition




The plugs should be changed every 12000 miles.   They were last replaced immediately before I bought it.   They were replaced feb12 at approx 20000. (was only idling on 3 cylinders, therefore Honda Chiswick re-synced carbs, did compression test, and replaced spark plugs)




Again with my two teens (so took some time):




Removed spark plugs - all good colour so engine appears healthy.




Quick trip to Halfords (again):  bought spark plug gauge.  They're the wire type rather than the feeler type (flat bits of metal)




Here's the thing:  Checking the wires with the £20 digital verniers I bought from Halfords, and the wires are *not* what they're stamped with...




Anyway, using the reading from the digital verniers (I'm relying on this rather than the wires) I established the gap across all four was around 0.75-0.77 - this was inside the tolerance of 0.7mm-0.8mm






Once thing I wasn't happy about and wish I would have thought about:  compressed air to blow away the top of the spark plugs.   I could feel the grit as I put the spark plugs back.   Sadly this means that there's every chance that a bit of power can be lost through whatever gap this creates.






Starting it up, it sounds it has no issues - tomorrow is my 22 mile (one way) commute to work so I'll see what it's like.






Darren

[darren_uk]

well bugger me. or, preferably, don't! But here is the 11th commandment - thou shalt not listen to random bloke on t'internet... I'll get me coat...

hehe   I do like your avatar - damn I wanna meet that girl !!!

[red98]

well bugger me. or, preferably, don't! But here is the 11th commandment - thou shalt not listen to random bloke on t'internet... I'll get me coat...

hehe   I do like your avatar - damn I wanna meet that girl !!!

iam not the only one then     thats the only reason iam on here,watch it for hours 

[Dead Eye]

It is sort of hypnotic isn't it... I think it's one of those man tests - if you don't stare, I've got bad news for you

[Slaninar]

Most local bikers I know, as well as a few mechanics would do it differently. Here's what advice I was given. This came from a mate mechanic that doesn't charge me for labour, lets me borrow tools, mess workshop etc - I trust the guy means well. Here goes:


replace fuel filter
Don't touch until you have problems.

replace air filter
replace spark plugs
This is no problem, 30 minute work if I didn't have the bloody KN (but KN needs less often maintenance,  than the OE need change, so it comes out in the almost the same amount of time/hassle).

check valve clearence
I was told NOT to touch this until I hear it rattle. Waste of time and money?!?

lubricate swingarm with lithium soap based grease
lubricate steering bearings with lithium soap based grease
lubricate rear suspension relay and connecting arm pivot points with lithium soap based grease
OK, there is  A LOT less rain in Serbia than in England, most people here ride in sunny days only (I'm one of those), but I was told NOT to touch any of these. Hardly anyone I know has done such things. I was told once I open it, it would be wise to change all the barings etc, but not to touch it until it starts not working properly.

check carbs for balance
My bike is say 90% well tuned, but starting to run a bit more rough, getting some buzz between 5500 rpm to 6000. But I was also told not to bother with this until it gets really nasty. "Better spend money with your girl, than pay me to sort it out".

replace engine oil and filter
Yes, every 6000 kilometres.

replace coolant
The red coolant lasts for some 100,000 kilometres, or five years minimum. So it says on the lid.  I put that in (flushed the system first well) and guess I'm good now for some time.


lubricate all moving parts cables
I do this every autumn (don't ride Fazer in the cold and wet days).


And it also says to replace the internal components of the master cylinder and calipers and replace brake fluid every 2 years!!
And to replace the brake hoses every 4 years!!
This sounds like a reasonable precaution. However, I was also advised against doing this. NOBODY does it round these parts, on any bike. People wait until they get problems (spongy feel that can't be sorted), or worse.  Except for brake fluid change (although some old biker I know don't do it almost ever).


Obviously not a very preemptive maintanance philosophy round here. I'm still between minds, how much of those stuff I can get away without changing. I mean, it is a 10 year old bike. I intend to keep it, but those things cost time and money.