Quote

They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.

Sorry – so May should – pull out a loaded gun, point it at her own heid, and shout at Barnier “This is going to seriously wound you!” then pull the trigger!


I see.

And we should listen to you because...?

Former Australia PM Tony Abbott:


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get. The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence. But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for.

It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy? A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are. Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers. Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere). UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids.

And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum. As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it. Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015"


Hear, hear!


Don't believe in the UK? The EU is waiting with open arms. Got your passport? Then what's stopping you?   

I was inebriated Tuesday evening too
As soon as I woke up on Wednesday I thought Foc how am I gonna wriggle out of this one and get back in the Leave camp

You'd have to be inebriated to stay in that EU malarkey. Look, they are:


https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1063425437437755393


 

Quote from: Hedgetrimmer on 17 November 2018, 10:53:00 am

Sometimes, reading this thread is like watching the history channel, with all its repeats from the whingeing, whining losers of Remain 

I had a bit of a wobble the other day .......but I'm back where I was now . Normal service has been resumed . I voted Leave so on reflection I feel it's only right and proper to see it through and honour that

Are you sure? 


You know that anti-UK chap who has no stake in our future one way or the other will be along to tell you you're mad soon?

What do you mean, Ogri48? They changed the bike later on?

nope a bike shop just painted a few to look like classic 'ondas. like you do..

I thought he might be referring to this:

the cb13 is kinda good, more so the early less sanitised ones. they aint no fazer though..

?

May is something of a survivor.  But how much longer?
Her government is in ruins, the deal is dead in the water and pariamentary defeat looms.
She sure puts a brave face on it.

What choice does she have? Can you see her coming up with a deal that everyone will be happy with? She must be feeling quite resigned to her fate.
I have come to the conclusion that the UK cannot do an acceptable deal with the EU. The only reason the EU stays in the negotiations must be that they are hoping to gain complete jurisdiction over all the UK's affairs. To me, that will always be unacceptable.


NO DEAL!

If the SNP is smart, they will be manoeuvring behind the scenes to back Brexit (they cannot be seen to be doing this). That way, they'll be able to call for another independence referendum, which will go massively in their favour. An independent Scotland will be able to waltz back into the arms of the EU.

I'm not really a Honda fan myself in all honesty, never have been. They always seemed to pull their punches a bit, a bit too 'polished' if you know what I mean. I still hear that about them now, with much more recent models. There've been a few I would have liked to try though.

fifteen grand now that h2 if it was mint. lairy innit?

I know mate. Sometimes I think about what I'd be sitting on if I could have kept all the bikes I've had; RG500, GSXR750 and 1100 slabbies, two H2s, a Z1 etc etc.


Although, the H2 wasn't standard; full Denco tune with 34mmm Mikunis, Denco expansion pipes, Dresda s/arm, Marzocchi Strada rear shocks. Denco are long defunct but I don't know if that would increase or decrease its value. The latter, I suspect. It was immaculate at the time.


My brother had a mate who had a CB900, black one, with  mods. I thought that was beautiful - I was still too young to ride at that time.

Had my turbo at 18. Used to sneak it out late at night before I passed my test too, tsk tsk! 

I like the red one. Red and black have always been favourite colours of mine as a combination, since my Kwak turbo really. I prefer the CBX in red too.

We just need to get Hedgetrimmer and Ogri48 turned, and we're there 

Sigh.

No, I'm afraid i'm not going to turn now. Rightly or wrongly, I have my principles. Maybe they're dated but I'm too old and focced to change now.
In all honesty, in or out of the EU, I'm focced 
I am a dinosaur, and the first to admit it. I was born and brought up on the history and values of this country, and served 8 years in our armed forces. I'm a patriot at heart. Again, all that for better or worse.
This whole debate is about business, corporations, money. It doesn't matter where these are located at the end of the day - they have their own interests at heart, shareholders and company executives. If us minions benefit from that in any way, it's purely incidental. They will continue to treat the rest with the barest consideration they can get away with. If they can replace people with machines, AI, robots, because that's more efficient, they will have not one second thought about it.

At most, if there were another referendum including the option to remain in the EU, I might withhold my vote. Maybe it is time that the younger generations decided what they want, and us old focs stood aside. It really won't make any difference to me. Being in the EU won't improve my lot any.

Personally, I'd like to have seen a better EU than is currently being pushed forwards, with us at the heart of it. But Merkel and Macron have shown that we would never get that. Even fully inside the EU, the UK was always considered as an outsider. We were told we never understood them. If that was the case, some us certainly don't now, given what has passed between us since the referendum.

But as I said, none of it really matters to me, because none of it is relevant to me anymore.
So if you can get it back, have your EU membership, and enjoy. I don't want it still, not in the way that it was, and appeared to be going.

Foccin hell. Can we go back to Brexit and war?