Jim'll fiddle it

[Chillum]

Modern society has no way of assessing whether the ends justify the means, I mean there is a huge demographic out there that have social distinctions based on EastEnders ffs.

Personally I'm in the camp of right is right, and wrong is wrong.

A few years back my father-in-law was accused of molesting my nephew (on my wife's side, so his grandson). The parents didn't really want to know because it was too difficult to deal with (nothing overtly sexual, but the kid claims he was tied up (as part of  game) and had his nipples rubbed.

The problem with this kind of ostrich behaviour is that that everyone knew about this accusation, except the accused.

I (and my wife) were the only ones to confront the issue head-on and talk to him about it. Not least of which was to put him on warning that it was now known about and wouldn't be hidden under the carpet.

In the end the kid ended up hating his parents more than his grandfather because they failed to take his side and do anything about it.

I would much rather let one incident pass un-prosecuted but out in the open, than bury my head in the sand and catch the bloke later on for something a lot more serious.

[Major Rant]

He was a buddy of Prince Charles ... I always wondered what they had in common?

[Hogi]

if I knew the King of England was a fiddler I would be shouting about it until someone heard me (as an adult, not a frightened child).

Which is why a number of people are asking why the alleged victims didn't speak up when they became adults and when he was alive..and when there was a chance to hold him to account?. Or their parents, or family, siblings, friends, etc etc - no one?

And while the focus is currently on the BBC's conduct, what about the rest of the media? I find it hard to believe the unlamented News of the World among others were intimidated into silence. Pretty sure they'd have had a field day on this.

Not defending him but just asking - where was the shouting?

[fireblake]

+1 Hogi


Mickey

[The Rocketeer]

Jimmy Savile's family have had the gravestone removed along with the flowers as a mark of respect.
 It just leaves a small hole and no bush around it. Just what he would have wanted..............

[chaz]

it's all in his name

JIMMY SAVILE   -------------------------  MY I'M VILE AS, J.

[pitternator]

VNA
I saw parts of it.And its been very heavily covered on J. Vine which I listen to most days.But irrespective of what has been said and claimed, there is still the fundamental principle of justice, which is innocent till proven guilty.I have to say there are now many many claims, and looking at it disspassionately there comes a point where you may  have to say well some must be right...though statistically its not correct to make that assumption. There also has been a media circus over it all now, which also will call into question whether people are just making claims in the hope of being famous for a while or even hopes of compensation.
Its why I just think, there will be nothing to come of it anymore. JS reputation is gone...what more can this do ?
Child abuse goes on all the time, this case may serve to highlight the issue now, but I cant see how future cases of abuse will be stopped because of these " revelations".
 
JS was not a relative ( of course) , but a leading icon in the 60s and 70s, and he did many sponsored runs/ walks etc. He was pivotal in raising funds for stoke mandeville. Its  a tragedy whatever way you look at it ...for everyone.
 
What also concerns me is just how influential media campaigns can be in creating  public opinion.... " no smoke without fire"...

[VNA - BMW Wank]

You should have watched the whole programme.

It was quite compelling. 

Sadly there is no doubt that JS was a peadophile.

Numerous people reported him over the years.  No action was ever taken.  The police it seems failed, for whatever reason, to join the dots over several decades.

he did many sponsored runs/ walks etc. He was pivotal in raising funds for stoke mandeville. Its  a tragedy whatever way you look at it ...for everyone.

Particularly for the victims, and of them the ones brave enougth to stand up to him and make a complaint, only to be told not to be so silly etc etc.

It would also appear that everything Jimmy did during his life, was as much as anything, about getting access to children.

but I cant see how future cases of abuse will be stopped because of these " revelations".

Lessons have to learned.  I think some of them already have been.  Questions must be asked why this was all brushed under the carpet over several decades.  Surely that much his victims deserve?

I just hope it doesn't lead to further public paranoia, wrapping children up in even more cotton wool etc.  And of course the truth is today, just as it was then, most abuse takes place in the family.   

Though who would have expected their kids to be sexually abused at the BBC?

[dickturpin]

Can't help thinking there could be several bands from the same era sitting a little uncomfortably at the moment, given the ages of some of the groupies that followed them!

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Indeed.

Was just listening to Dr Feelgood - Malpractice, one of the songs is entitled 'Don't let your Daddy know'.

[Raymy]

Can't help thinking there could be several bands from the same era sitting a little uncomfortably at the moment, given the ages of some of the groupies that followed them!

They're even younger nowadays

[pitternator]

VNA
While I am not calling  the claimants liars, what doesnt help is just why were sub 16 yr olds allowed  to be  unescorted in his dressing rooms, and just why any of them didnt come forward when they were a bit older ,and couldnt just be hushed up ?...thats the tragedy of all this.Because if they were abused, by nobody saying anything they allowed future people to be so....I find it hard to believe every parent would have just said " dont be silly".
 
On a cynical note its now apparent that some form of litigation is to be launched by the victims for compensation from the institutions which employed him ...hmmm. Of course all the claims were nothing to do with that then.Claims which by their very timing can never be substantiated or proven/ disproven.The whole thing still doesnt sit easily with me...

[Chillum]

why any of them didnt come forward when they were a bit older

Just out of curiosity - do you know anyone who was abused as a child? Your point of view strikes me as being from someone who doesn't.
 
Many children bury the memories under layers of psychosis and aberrent behaviour making them difficult to access in later life.
 
Attitudes of people who were trusted enough for them to confide in who then let them down can often do as much damage as the abuse. On person I know reckoned the process to being abused physically and then raped emotionally. It's unfortunately very common.

[alan09]

The compo word has finally raised its head, there's said to be 60 victims they'll be coming out the woodwork now there's a chance of a payout 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Meanwhile, who's going out to the pub dressed as Jimmy Saville on Halloween?

You could get your mates to dress up as Gary Glitter and Johathan King, perhaps pursued by an Esther Rantzen shouting - I'm gonna spank your bottoms you naughty boys!

Sounds like a plan - eh?

[pitternator]

Chillum
Look it is irrelevant to ask / suggest that cos I may not know someone who has been abused, that I am not qualified to comment. As it happens no, I dont , coming from a " normal" background of a family unit with no homosexual/ paedophiliate relatives either.The point is just why wait now , when surely only 2 or 3 yrs ago an adult will have the maturity to make a stand if thats what they want to do.
The stupidity of all this is not one claim can really be substantiated , hence the validity of such a claim will never be fully accepted by many people.
 
As someone who has had counselling  for PTSD, I do have sympathy for any such victims, as after my counselling I felt " relieved of my burden"...I never felt I had to go on national TV to achieve that state however....putting right ones  own psycology is a deeply personal and private thing...hence why I also am very surprised at these claims and the huge publicity the victims are willing to go through.
 
Then you wonder why I am still sceptical....

[Chillum]

Chillum
Look it is irrelevant to ask / suggest that cos I may not know someone who has been abused, that I am not qualified to comment.

Not sure I actually said that. I didn't think it was irrelevant, you were saying you didn't understand why they didn't come forward before, or are only doing so now. I was asking if you knew anyone who had been through it because if you did you probably wouldn't be asking. Wasn't questioning your fitness to comment.

Then you wonder why I am still sceptical....

I don't wonder why you're sceptical, you've told us why I haven't even said that I believe or disbelieve the accusations yet, although there do seem to be enough disparate accounts that all add up to being pretty damning, if not conclusive.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

As someone who has had counselling  for PTSD, I do have sympathy for any such victims, as after my counselling I felt " relieved of my burden"...I never felt I had to go on national TV to achieve that state however....putting right ones  own psycology is a deeply personal and private thing...hence why I also am very surprised at these claims and the huge publicity the victims are willing to go through.
 

Whatever trauma you have suffered it is good to hear that you have found some peace, and as you say have been relieved of your burden. 

 But back to Jimmy.  This all happened simply because a team of documentary film makers decided to investigate rumours surrounding Jimmy Savile.  The investigation was led by Mark Williams-Thomas, a former police detective who specialised during his time with the police in child protection and major crime.
 
You can read his own account of how this investigation came about, and why after initial research they decided to peruse it.  Mark decided to investigate his first lead before the death of Jimmy Saville, unfortunately by the time he spoke to that first person Jimmy had just recently passed away.


The BBC had meanwhile blocked an investigation into Jimmy Savile by their own journalists.   Mark was aware that the BBC had shelved an investigation in to Savile. 
 
http://www.williams-thomas.co.uk/?q=system/files/Exposure%20-%20The%20Other%20Side%20of%20Jimmy%20Savile.pdf

I never felt I had to go on national TV to achieve that state however

These people were abused as children.  Those who spoke out were disbelieved and/or humiliated.  The police failed time after time to investigate, or even to join up the dots from numerous allegations and complaints.  Most of those who appeared in the film did so under the guarantee of anonymity. 

Perhaps, they, unlike you, may not have reach "that state".  Perhaps, again unlike yourself, they have not, until now, been offered that opportunity.   
I think you need to actually watch that documentary Pitternator.

[The Rocketeer]

 
It'll be Sooty and Sweep next......
 
What about The Fonz? He used to like hanging out with a load of teenage boys?

[Streetbudgie]

if I knew the King of England was a fiddler I would be shouting about it until someone heard me (as an adult, not a frightened child).

Which is why a number of people are asking why the alleged victims didn't speak up when they became adults and when he was alive..and when there was a chance to hold him to account?. Or their parents, or family, siblings, friends, etc etc - no one?

And while the focus is currently on the BBC's conduct, what about the rest of the media? I find it hard to believe the unlamented News of the World among others were intimidated into silence. Pretty sure they'd have had a field day on this.

Not defending him but just asking - where was the shouting?

To clarify - I would be shouting as an adult who knew the abuse was going on, not as the terrified child victim or that victim as an adult

Where was the shouting is exactly my point - if Rantzen and her other BBC cronies knew this was happening, why didn't they blow the whistle?

The answer - they were too busy sucking on the BBC's corporate teat and lining their own pockets while knowing full well child abuse was going on under their noses and at the same time becoming heads of institutions like Childline to placate their guilt.

That's who the investigation is for, prove the abuse and prosecute the bastards that stood back and did nothing.

[Streetbudgie]

Chillum

 coming from a " normal" background of a family unit with no homosexual/ paedophiliate relatives either.

Sorry mate, got to pull you on this statement, what has being a paedophile got to do with being homosexual?

Are you saying if one has a gay relative then their family must be considered not normal?

[Phil TK]

Chillum

 coming from a " normal" background of a family unit with no homosexual/ paedophiliate relatives either.

It's happened! Jerry Falwell has been resurrected, Hallelulah

[imax]

Where was the shouting is exactly my point - if Rantzen and her other BBC cronies knew this was happening, why didn't they blow the whistle?

The answer - they were too busy sucking on the BBC's corporate teat and lining their own pockets while knowing full well child abuse was going on under their noses and at the same time becoming heads of institutions like Childline to placate their guilt.

That's who the investigation is for, prove the abuse and prosecute the bastards that stood back and did nothing.

"The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" A. Einstein

[VNA - BMW Wank]

To clarify - I would be shouting as an adult who knew the abuse was going on, not as the terrified child victim or that victim as an adult

 Would you?  Bollocks!  After having been used and abused as a child, and in a society which blames the victim and attacks the whistle blower.  Nobody listened when people spoke out at the time, why would anybody care in the future, the matter had already been dealt with, had it not? 
The funny thing is, Jimmy Savile, it would appear is possibly, if not probably the biggest paedophile and rapist that has ever come to our attention.    There are dozens of victims.  Wouldn't we better asking why they were, time after time, not able to come forward and/or their allegations repeatedly dismissed.
Posturing is easy, and words are cheap.
What people are doing here is attacking the victims.  Yet again the victims are being attacked.
 

Where was the shouting is exactly my point - if Rantzen and her other BBC cronies knew this was happening, why didn't they blow the whistle?

We are going round in circles.  Rantzen had heard rumours.    You cannot whistle blow on a rumour.

The answer - they were too busy sucking on the BBC's corporate teat and lining their own pockets while knowing full well child abuse was going on under their noses and at the same time becoming heads of institutions like Childline to placate their guilt.

Those who do something, will always be attacked by those who do nothing.   Don't we just hate anybody who dares to make progress on sensitive issues.   Rantzen heard rumours, she had no facts, no evidence, nothing, zip, ziltch, that could be acted on. 

That's who the investigation is for, prove the abuse and prosecute the bastards that stood back and did nothing.

No it is not.  It is not to find guilty people who heard rumours or gossip.   To suggest so is, to put it mildly, stupid.
 

[BBROWN1664]

The only reason Scotland wants to remain part of the EU post seperation from the UK is they would get more in subsidies back then they pay in to the EU