Date: 19-06-24  Time: 15:12 pm

Author Topic: front suspension upgrade  (Read 3243 times)

Alexander_V

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front suspension upgrade
« on: 18 April 2024, 09:52:10 am »
Hello Guys,

I am almost only riding road on weekends but I do like to push myself and I find the bike sometimes gives me an unstable feel, I would like to upgrade it, also I am in love with the bike and I will be keeping it and I only want to improve it, starting with suspension.

So I was checking all the threads about R6/R1 forks and started considering it, but then I came across the thread about upgrading the stock suspension so I am leaning towards the upgrade. My question is: between the following variants:

1. Race Tech Gold Valve Cartridge Fork Emulators or other fork valves like these: https://www.wemoto.com/bike/yamaha/fzs/600/2000/1615/fork-valves

and
 
2. Andreani Misano Evo Fork Cartridge Kit: https://www.brooksuspension.co.uk/fork-internals/yamaha-fzs-600-fazer-andreani-misano-evo-fork-cartridge-kit-98-03?switch=BG or this one: Fork upgrade kit Yamaha FZS 600 Matris FSE: https://www.officine08.com/p81259_fork-upgrade-kit-yamaha-fzs-600-matris-fse.html


Would the 1st variant be half assed or is it a proper upgrade in your opinion? Should I consider it, or just move onto the full upgrade?

Also, if variant 1 is a proper upgrade, should I consider the cheaper options like these fork valves: https://www.wemoto.com/bike/yamaha/fzs/600/2000/1615/fork-valves or rule them out and go with gold ones?

FInal question, I cannot find gold valves for the exact fzs600 2000y so I am wondering would I want 41mm ones or some other diameter?

I know the price is very different, and I would always want to spend less, but the more important thing is quality of the upgrade so for my bike I am willing to spend if the fork valves variant is not a proper option.

Thanks a lot in advance for your opinions.

Best Regards



unfazed

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #1 on: 19 April 2024, 01:14:22 am »
I do not believe you need to go to that expense to improve the Suspension of the 600
A set of progressive springs to cater for you weight and all riding options with 10w Synthetic oil will usually sort the front. A reasonably priced Hagon Shock at the rear with a progressive spring again to cater for your weight and all riding options will fix the rear.Switch to Sports tyres or the new type good Sports Touring tyres.

 

fazersharp

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #2 on: 19 April 2024, 08:02:50 am »
Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer Andreani Misano Evo Fork Cartridge Kit (98-03) £571.56  :eek Depending on the bikes condition you could buy a whole fazer for that !
Quote
I find the bike sometimes gives me an unstable feel,
is that from coming from another bike that did give you stable feel.

depending on your weight - as unfazed says all you perhaps need to do is refurb them with new oil. Most people seem to sort out the rear before or if at all touching the front.
 
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darrsi

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #3 on: 21 April 2024, 08:42:21 am »
Your personal body weight (with all your bike gear on), any luggage or top box, and whether you ever take passengers can obviously alter things, but when i changed mine from 10w to 15w oil for the fist time i found the difference a lot better with much more solid and predictable handling.
My large top box is at least half full most of the time though, and i'm not exactly the smallest build physically.
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kebab19

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #4 on: 09 May 2024, 06:17:45 pm »
Yes, the YSS fork valve emulators can make quite a difference if fitted with linear rate springs. Heavier fork oil also needs to be installed.Note however that it's not a simple drop-in - you need to modify the fork's internal damper rods.
Link to my original 2008 Gold valve fork installation here (I used TRX 850 gold valves but they were a smidge too big):
https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=71.0

However, if you're not confident about carrying out permanent fork surgery, go with Progressive springs and different weight oil.

BBROWN1664

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #5 on: 09 May 2024, 06:47:34 pm »
When was the fork oil last changed?

May just need 15w oil in there
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Alexander_V

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #6 on: 28 May 2024, 04:47:51 pm »
Yamaha FZS 600 Fazer Andreani Misano Evo Fork Cartridge Kit (98-03) £571.56  :eek Depending on the bikes condition you could buy a whole fazer for that !
Quote
I find the bike sometimes gives me an unstable feel,
is that from coming from another bike that did give you stable feel.

depending on your weight - as unfazed says all you perhaps need to do is refurb them with new oil. Most people seem to sort out the rear before or if at all touching the front.

Reading all that I can it may have been because of low preload, tightened it a bit and it is way better. However the tightness I feel on high speed bumps stays, the suspension is not the same as when slow speed bumps occur. I read that this is because there are no shim stacks as in the forks with cartridges, since it has a damper rod..

Alexander_V

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2024, 04:50:06 pm »
Your personal body weight (with all your bike gear on), any luggage or top box, and whether you ever take passengers can obviously alter things, but when i changed mine from 10w to 15w oil for the fist time i found the difference a lot better with much more solid and predictable handling.
My large top box is at least half full most of the time though, and i'm not exactly the smallest build physically.

So I changed it last spring and used 10w oil. I am around 87 with bike clothes on, I carry no luggage and ride with no passengers.. Pure fun only hahah

Alexander_V

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2024, 04:54:08 pm »
I do not believe you need to go to that expense to improve the Suspension of the 600
A set of progressive springs to cater for you weight and all riding options with 10w Synthetic oil will usually sort the front. A reasonably priced Hagon Shock at the rear with a progressive spring again to cater for your weight and all riding options will fix the rear.Switch to Sports tyres or the new type good Sports Touring tyres.

These were actually there in the bike, progressive forks (not sure if stock) and 10w oil. I kind of want better performance in high speed bumps so I was considering the two options.

Because I really like this motorcycle I would like to improve it wherever possible and am planning on keeping it for good.

Alexander_V

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2024, 05:01:17 pm »
Hello guys,

Thanks for all the replies and comments. I decided to go with the Andreani Misano Evo Fork Cartridge Kit in the end. I think if I am keeping the bike and I want to upgrade it good, I can spend the money, I will try these out. I am actually very excited about that as this is the first upgrade I am doing to my mike. Next one and it won't be long is the rear shock of course.

Thanks again guys.
Cheers

kebab19

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #10 on: 12 June 2024, 05:34:27 pm »
Let us know how the Andreani works out, was alway curious but never coughed up the cash for a set. 
If I get a Tracer 700 next, I might consider Andreani.... 

Alexander_V

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Re: front suspension upgrade
« Reply #11 on: 17 June 2024, 02:04:21 pm »
Ok,

So I bought the kit with option road and track (because I am planning to start track days in the future) with springs for 85kg (my weight) +- and it is a very stiff for bumps, even with 1mm of preload and compression 3 turns out, but besides the surprising stiffness I can say it works good. I have tried a couple of different settings and I am fiddling with the rebound first. (I am open to advice on how can I best work my way to the best settings, I mean which one should I start with once preload is dialed in, comp or rebound? or?)

The feel is stiff but stable, which I guess is expected. The settings I rode with did bike very predictable and stable (IMO) and I could push myself a bit more than before and I could take turns with more speed (on my home road, the one I know best). one note though - I have lowered the bike with 1.9 cm from the triple clamp (yoke?) and I love it as it is.

As per the prescription on the kit I was monitoring for some symptoms of it not being set up correctly for the use:

1. bike running wide out of corners - no.
2. bike bottoming out - no
3. bike topping out - probably close to but not quite.

The zip-tie on my fork stanchion stood 1 cm before 1/3 of the total travel, so I am thinking it is a bit stiff for my riding. I am surely not using the cartridges' full potential, or the bike's for that matter, but the fact that you can tweak comp/rebound in separate controls is a big advantage as you might want quick compression and slow rebound, which more or less the same with the damping rod.

Not sure if I had to go with lighter springs having in mind that the use is mainly road.

So with my rookie review :D I have some questions for you seasoned moto guys:

1. I read somewhere here that I can get an even better performance if I change shims in the cartridges, would this be relevant for road use?
2. Would you want quick compression and slow rebound, how much hand in hand should these 2 be?
3. For oil I went with cst rather than WT and I got 23 cst at 40 (perscribed was 19cst at 40) so as close as I could - would you also go about it like that or stick to weight with cartridges?
4. is the 1/3 of total travel for rider sag valid for such stiff suspension setups?
5. Can I cut the standard progressive springs (one the stiffer coil end, leaving them not-so-progressive) to size and drop them in if I want the same performance with a softer feel?

cheers
« Last Edit: 17 June 2024, 02:21:41 pm by Alexander_V »