Author Topic: New clutch not working at all! (Read 13471 times)

sc0ttie · « **on:** 25 March 2016, 03:58:16 pm »

HI All, today i tried to renew my clutch but since putting it all back together and starting up, my clutch does not seem to engage at all.

I followed this video

basically, I drained my oil, removed oil filter and fitted new oil filter. Then took clutch cover off, removed clutch springs, pulled off old pates and put in my new (soaked in oil plates). Followed the video, starting with one friction plate, then steel plate, then judder spring, then the friction plate, steel plate until all on the basket. Replaced springs with new ebc uprated ones, tightened it all up. new gasket, put clutch cover back on, Put new oil in and started it up on centre stand. With the clutch lever pulled in, in first gear the back wheel was spinning. Used a bit of throttle and pulled clutch lever in at same time, nothing happened. Put bike off the stand, slowly let the clutch lever out in first gear, nothing, the bike did not react.

I have tried the clutch lever adjustment screw both ways to max/min with no change. Also tried the screw and lock nut under the rubber cover on sprocket case, still nothing. There is good tension in the cable when clutch lever pulled in, i.e. it feels like the cable travels as it used to.

Any help or advise on what I may have done wrong or should check?

His Dudeness · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 March 2016, 08:14:44 pm »

There's been a few people on here that've cracked their pressure plates when doing the clutch and I think from stiffer springs so that's a possibility but I'd guess your plates aren't sitting quite right in the basket and the extra bit of space means the clutch won't engage. You'll have to take the cover off, take the plates out and try again. You don't have to drain the oil to do it. Just don't start the bike for a few hours and leave it on the side stand and the oil will stay in the sump and won't spill out with the cover off. Be careful doing up the bolts in the basket they snap easily. Also slacken off the cable. If it's too tight it'll slip. Maybe do that first just in case it's the cable at fault

Fazerider · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 March 2016, 08:50:40 pm »

Yep, that happened to me too.

When fitting the pressure plate you need to get it aligned correctly. Before putting the screws in, check orientation by pressing on the plate with your fingers, if you can feel the friction plates are loose you're on wrong. Pull it off, rotate it and offer it up again.
Some people seem to be lucky, but often the bottom of the wells the springs live in will fracture when tightening up the bolts with the pressure plate in the wrong position.

sc0ttie · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 March 2016, 09:27:42 pm »

Quote from: Fazerider on 25 March 2016, 08:50:40 pm

Yep, that happened to me too.
When fitting the pressure plate you need to get it aligned correctly. Before putting the screws in, check orientation by pressing on the plate with your fingers, if you can feel the friction plates are loose you're on wrong. Pull it off, rotate it and offer it up again.
Some people seem to be lucky, but often the bottom of the wells the springs live in will fracture when tightening up the bolts with the pressure plate in the wrong position.

When you say pressure plate, what are you referring to? are there some kind of aligning marks to show the correct position? one of the friction plates was a bit tight to push back into the basket, although i did get it fully back against the steel plate before it quite quickly, it was just more difficult than the others.

edit: just thinking is pressure plate the plate that you put the springs into and covers the friction plates? sorry if I am being a bit of a div but not done a clutch before.

unfazed · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 March 2016, 10:14:51 pm »

The pressure plate is the one where the 6 bolts fit into. The rear of it is castellated and must fit with the castellations on the clutch boss which is what the steel plates slot into, as Fazerider ride says remove the pressure plate and rotate it push it back in, keep doing this until it slots in properly. It is obvious when it does fit in.

Word of advice take out the upreated clutch springs and put back the old ones and buy new OEM ones.
The EBC ones are far too strong and ruin what is a nice light clutch plus they put a lot of strain on the push rod mechanism causing premature of the linkage within the sprocket cover and the clutch cable.

Be aware that there has been a few cases of EBC plates being to thin and slipping after a few hundred miles.

sc0ttie · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 March 2016, 10:21:14 pm »

Yes I will try that in the morning, i just went outside and took it off centre stand and put it on side stand so the oil should have settled to the left of the bike. Hopefully it is just the seating of the pressure plate and i can resolve this tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the advice.

unfazed · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 March 2016, 10:31:23 pm »

There will be no problem with the oil once it is on the side stand, might be a small drip of residual oil when you remove the cover, but nothing more.

sc0ttie · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 March 2016, 10:40:02 pm »

would it help if i used 3 OEM springs that I took out and 3 of the EBC ones, might make it less stiff?

bandit · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 March 2016, 11:40:27 pm »

I personally would not mix the springs as this would not give uneven pressure on the clutch plates. Smile

unfazed · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 March 2016, 09:16:18 am »

Quote from: sc0ttie on 25 March 2016, 10:40:02 pm

would it help if i used 3 OEM springs that I took out and 3 of the EBC ones, might make it less stiff?

Do not mix them, the standard ones are fine. If you want to replace them use OEM, which should probably be replaced when changing the plates in any case.

sc0ttie · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 March 2016, 11:17:09 am »

This morning I tried all the above, but I could not get the clutch to work again. In desperation I put the old plates back in to try that and that also did not work. I am well and truly peed off with it now and I still cannot ride the bike as clutch does not seem to disengage cos bike just sits there in gear with engine running/being revved.

bandit · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 March 2016, 01:20:23 pm »

Ok, the original yam friction plates are loaded as follows check if EBC are the same:

Friction plate,then plain plate,then anti judder spring,now fit THE FRICTION PLATE WITH THE LARGER INTERNAL DIAMETER OVER THE SPRING,then plain plate,then friction plate till all 8 of each plates are fitted.

Hope this helps.

unfazed · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 March 2016, 01:49:13 pm »

Did you remove anything else other than the pressure plate, the springs and the clutch plates?

Did you by any chance remove the pressure plate pushrod which looks a bit like a bolt with a washer and an oil seal on it?

fazerboy01 · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 March 2016, 02:07:08 pm »

Ball bearing missing from the end of the push rod??

sc0ttie · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 March 2016, 04:30:39 pm »

There was one friction plate which is narrower that all of the others, i.e. the ring of friction material is several mm less height. That was true of the plate i took out to replace too, there was one with a smaller ring of friction material. That smaller one, if you see the video is the one that is put on after the judder spring, thats what i did. I started with friction plate, steel plate, judder spring, lower height friction plate, steel plate then carried on with friction plate etc. Nothing fell out of the clutch area, I made sure nothing else was removed or fell out.

unfazed · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 March 2016, 04:45:07 pm »

Can you see the pressure plate lifting when you pull in the clutch with the clutch cover off.

Did you make any adjustments to the cable or adjuster on the sprocket cover?

Did you notice the difference when yhe pressure plate was on in the right position?

Bretty · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 March 2016, 05:41:28 pm »

If the ball bearing was missing the clutch wouldn't 'disengage'.

Like said above, take out the 'pressure plate' and rotate it 60 degrees, see if it sits 'in' further. I had this problem with mine, I turned it a couple of times and it went flush.

Go steady tightening the springs, do them all in turn, opposites a little at a time and don't over tighten as the inner boss casting is super brittle and you'll shear off the bit the screws go into. Either go steady or do it right with a torque wrench. (unlike me, I'm an idiot!)

sc0ttie · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 March 2016, 06:56:34 pm »

Quote from: unfazed on 26 March 2016, 04:45:07 pm

Can you see the pressure plate lifting when you pull in the clutch with the clutch cover off.

Did you make any adjustments to the cable or adjuster on the sprocket cover?

Did you notice the difference when yhe pressure plate was on in the right position?

Yes I could see the plate moving in and out with the lever. I loosened the lever adjustment right down when fitting and adjusted it both ways after fitting to see if it made any difference. It didn't.
The pressure plate fit flush, I tried it in every slot position and used the position it was most flush with and which had no uneven rocking movement.

Tbh I'm thinking just get the garage to take it and do it for me now, it's stressed me out the last 2 days.

sc0ttie · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 March 2016, 06:58:36 pm »

Quote from: Bretty on 26 March 2016, 05:41:28 pm

If the ball bearing was missing the clutch wouldn't 'disengage'.

Like said above, take out the 'pressure plate' and rotate it 60 degrees, see if it sits 'in' further. I had this problem with mine, I turned it a couple of times and it went flush.

Go steady tightening the springs, do them all in turn, opposites a little at a time and don't over tighten as the inner boss casting is super brittle and you'll shear off the bit the screws go into. Either go steady or do it right with a torque wrench. (unlike me, I'm an idiot!)

I tried it in every position and used the best fitting one.

unfazed · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 March 2016, 08:47:56 pm »

Remove the clutch pressure plate again check the condition of the the bolt/spring holes to make sure they are not broken, if all is ok there do the following:
Remove 3 friction plates and 3 steel plates
Refit the pressure rotating it until you get the correct position. Mark this position, you will know it as the pressure plate will go in about an extra 5mm.
Remove the pressures plate and replace the steel and friction plates in the correct order.
Replace the pressure plate in the marked position and replace the springs and bolts. Tighten the bolts in a criss cross manner to 8nm
Replace the gasket and clutch cover ensuring the dowels are in place and tighten all bolts to 12Nm
Now screw the cable adjuster at the handle bar all the way. Maximum slack on the cable.
Remove the rubber bung on the Sprocket cover, undo the locknut and screw it out to the end but allowing space for the screwdriver to fit.
Hold the clutch lever in lightly and screw the adjuster in and you will feel the clutch lever moving out to its home position. when it reaches its full home position wind the adjuster screw back one one full turn. Lock it up with the locknut.
Set the final position of the clutch lever to about 5mm of play between the end of the lever and the holder,
See pic of area I am relating to (found it on the web, saved me photographing it)
http://californiascooterco.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/DSC1467adjustment.jpg

Let me know how you get on

sc0ttie · « **Reply #20 on:** 30 March 2016, 06:47:31 pm »

This has turned into a real nightmare and will now put me off trying home mechanics I think. Basically in the end I asked the garage to collect my bike and do my clutch for me because I was stressed with it and unable to ride to work, its my only transport. The garage have come back to say that the ball bearing is missing ( I know someone here mentioned that, but I never saw any ball bearing when I took off the old clutch plates so as far as i was concerned nothing fell out). They are saying that they may need to open the sump and see if has fallen in there and take the exhaust off etc. Are these likely scenarios or is this all getting a bit ott?

I have had a good look in my garden for a ball bearing but nothing found, that maybe due to the very high winds at the weekend though, I will never know.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 March 2016, 07:09:46 pm »

If you fix your own stuff you have to be prepared for it to go wrong the odd time when you're learning. Your mistake caused you hassle but it was only a small mistake so don't let it put you off. As far as I know the ball bearing can only fall out on the sprocket side of the engine not on the clutch side so I don't think it could have fallen into the sump.

fazersharp · « **Reply #22 on:** 30 March 2016, 07:12:09 pm »

EDIT just read your post dudeness so I was un-aware it cannot fall out on the plate side
I was writing this as you posted

The ball baring sits on the end of the pushrod, here is a picture of mine with the pushrod whth drawn from the cable side, you can see how long it is and it gos all the way through to the other side (plate side) and has a ball baring on the end, in my case the push rod came out leaving the baring still inside, in your case when you removed everything your were at the ball baring end which sounds like it either fell out onto your patio or fell into the sump.
To save extra cost in taking the sump off I would get on my hands and knees with a good strong magnet and sweep the patio - or where ever, inch by inch the point is they have to rule out it still being in the sump so if you can find it that will save them taking the sump off.

Fazerider · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 March 2016, 08:24:52 pm »

I'm pretty sure the ball can come out either side of the engine. If the sprocket cover's off and the long pushrod removed, the ball can come with it... likewise if you take the clutch pressure plate off, the short pushrod can come with it and the ball can be loosely attached to the end of that.

If you give your bike to someone else to mend you run the risk that they may not know what they're doing either.
As Bretty says, loss of the ball bearing would mean the clutch won't disengage... the opposite of the problem you're describing. This sounds much more as if the plate still isn't on right or that you were unlucky and it didn't survive getting tightened down in the wrong position. Did you take a good look at it or spot any broken bits of alloy in middle of the clutch plates?

sc0ttie · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 March 2016, 08:34:52 pm »

The sprocket cover was not off at all during my work on the bike, i only had the clutch plate side engine cover off. I will mention this to the mechanic tomorrow. After saturday morning and not being able to get the clutch to disengage, i put the cover back on and asked the garage to collect i that afternoon, I was just too annoyed about it at that point and decided to get a professional to do the job for me.