ferkin exup question ....again lol

[keithfzs1000]

priced valve and cables up £200 (lots n lots of beer tokens)
,
i ride March through to Nov going to rallies etc every weekend putting approx 200 mile each time, dont thrash it unless feeling naughty (of course not in this country too  )

Most of my rides have camping gear on bike and we do 80 mph

so i would guess maybe 2 dozen times a year its me my bike and fast riding

The question is  .... Do I need to spend that 200 on this damn exup thingymabob or not?? what harm will it do?? or am i just missing mid range torque that i prob dont use that often ??  OK OK all you 80-90-100mph need it....but  do I

  prob been answered before but searched n not come up with much in the way of a definitive answer

[macmivvi]

If you are happy with the way the bike runs now then no, you dont need it.

Its not there for fast riding ,rather the opposite , you will miss the benefits more than the fast rider.

[keithfzs1000]

so what are the benefits of spending 200 of my beer tokens plus the hassle of getting the damn thing fitted cos it looks as though is rustier n tighter than a ginger nuns arse 

[Ghoti]

For the uneducated....

Which way does the valve return to?  Open or closed? 

Am I right in saying:
 If the valve sticks open, you'll miss mid-range (ie ideal for those 50mph overtakes in top) but not lose any top end.
 If the valve sticks closed, you'll be fine up to about 6k revs and then you'll lose the top end.

I guess that the servo noise at start up is the valve closing, so it's default is open! 

I've never listened for a servo noise, but not especially heard one over the fule pump - should it be obvious?

Perhaps now the bike has done 70k I had better think about am exup service.  I'll look at the state of the bolts and decide then!

[macmivvi]

I have watched the exup on an R1 during dyno runs and it works for its living.

If it sticks the motor is being compromised either at the bottom or top or both.

so what are the benefits of spending 200 of my beer tokens plus the hassle of getting the damn thing fitted cos it looks as though is rustier n tighter than a ginger nuns arse 

Its not everyone that will have the opportunity of exploring a ginger nuns arse , havent a clue on the going rate ,some might consider that cheap even.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Have you managed to get the valve out?

If you can fix the whole set up for 200 quid that would seem to me to be worthwhile.

As others have said, valve stuck open, loss of bottom end torque.
Valve stuck at tick over position, bottom end OK, but loss of top end power.
Valve closed - bike will probably run pretty crappy.

And bear in mind the bike in standard trim already runs on the lean side, a non-functioning EXUP won't help, but my guess is it won't do much harm.

I guess that the servo noise at start up is the valve closing, so it's default is open! 

That's a good question.  And one I couldn't answer definitely until I carry out my EXUP overhaul again.
But when you turn on the ignition the valve drives to it's zero position, I think that's slightly open.
The valve can close under it's own weight when it is free, but can't remember if it can do that with the cables attached. 

Lots of good info here -   www.cartestsoftware.com/fz1/exupmaintenance.html

If the screws are tight, soak and keep soaking em in a good quality release oil, continuing to ride the bike will probably help the release oil work, just keep applying every day.

If they have sheared, then you'll have to pop the down pipes off and probably best to hand over to a good engineering works to get them out.  Do stress to them that's it's easy to warp the valve.  It's should slip out OK once you have removed all the screws.

Replace the screws with stainless items.

Whether you fix it or not just depends on how much you like the bike. 

And if it hasn't been ivanised that's worth thinking about too.  Never mind the improved performance after ivanisation, the thing is just so much smoother and nicer to ride, so even if you are plodding about ivanisation is well worthwhile.

[ghostbiker]

The EXUP realy is worth sorting out IMO, once it has been sorted once it is pish easy to stay on top of the maint twice a year. A simple grease up takes longer to get the tools out than do the job, and a cable adjust (if needed) isnt much longer once you know how.

Lots of ppl complain about the Exup but it realy is simple and easy to look affter..... (as long as the muppet before you has serviced it)

As said above, if your gunna not bother with the exup then remove the valve. this way you should only lose the midrange

when i brought mine with about 3k miles on it, the valve was stuck shut. would hardly pull over 5k lol was like riding a cb250 :P i was lucky and insisted the dealer sort the valve first. he was lucky as it all came apart fairly easy, only 1 bolt sheared adn that was an easy removal.

[martynR]

If I was to do it again then I would not bother. I didn't have the bike for long, but sorting the valve and with it being stuck shut there wasn't so much improvement to notice. And it did not feel like a CB250 with the valve sized that's for sure. It costs so much money that I would just leave. I would just remove the cables and leave it as it is.
If your bike is not giving the 7k rpm error, then it is not sized or it has been disconnected previously. If it hasn't been serviced for long time then it might be cheaper to get the headers with a working valve instead.


I would like to see the output on the dyno with working and closed valve.

[sadlonelygit]

i ride March through to Nov going to rallies etc every weekend putting approx 200 mile each time, dont thrash it

Most of my rides have camping gear on bike and we do 80 mph

get a 600 seems to be the correct answer

[ghostbiker]

but sorting the valve and with it being stuck shut there wasn't so much improvement to notice. And it did not feel like a CB250 with the valve sized that's for sure.

Well when i brought mine the valve was siezed up (not 100% sure if it was open or shut), the test ride i took it on (although was only round the ind est) was just totaly flat.
allmost like there was one big flat spot from tickover to 4/5k and didnt want to go over that.

ok cb250 might be a bit off but was hugely down on power to the point the first test ride was just round the block before i returned it. and thier sales guy rode it less than the length of the carpark before comming back and saying the exup was siezed. so must be pretty noticable.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

If it is stuck in the fully closed position (remember it opens up a bit even for tick over) then yeah I'd expect it to strangle the bike.

Yes once you get it working it is easy to keep it working.  Just strip and copper ease once or twice a year.  Easy job.

The reason so many of them are seized is that Yamaha don't mention it in the service manual.  But it needs a service at least once a year.

The real muppits (dirty thieving muppits) are all those Yamaha dealers that charge you a fortune for servicing your bike, then charge you another fortune to fix the EXUP valve they all know will seize if they don't strip and copper ease it. 

[pitternator]

more folk have had issue with seized and sheared mounting bolts than the valve itself. I have had 2 bolts shear in my fazer ownership in 10 yrs , and that is with regular maintenance.The only way out in my opinion is to change bolts every time you service it as they seem to have lttle shear resistance.
without a working exup this engine will be like any other sportsbike engine, and IMO not worth it.The torque is what this engine is all about.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Bought mine new in 2004.

No sheared EXUP screws.  Replaced original screws with stainless cap screws.

The reason you have to get the valve out in the first place is becuase it seizes. 

One time mine seized tight and I could get it out, I was just spreading the end of the shaft trying and making matters worse.  Took it to work (power station) and our mechanical boys eased it out for me.

Don't think I'll have that problem again, it's quite loose in the bushes now and you can hear the valve rattle when the engine is running.  It's still doing it's job though.

[GrahamB]

Is it just the 3 bolts that hold the exup valve cover on that people have trouble removing or are there others to watch out for?

[sadlonelygit]

see the 2 allen bolts NOT pointed at..............them's the one's most likely to be fubar'd.



all three can be seen here



all images from pat's wonderful site.

[pitternator]

graham
The issue is not  always so simple as the bolts which sheared on mine were the ones which didnt look seized ! It took me by surprise, just applied normal undoing pressure, and the nut simply sheared off. Best tip is to soak all  bolts in proper penetrating oil prior to undoing , and put some anti slip on new bolts. But it still can go wrong. But if you dont service the valve...well then it almost certainly will seize. Caatch 22 sometimes.

[sadlonelygit]

it also depends if you have the gruyere, edam or manchego bolts that are fitted as standard to most yams

[Ghoti]

I'm guessing mine is focced as I have no servo noise and just spoken to the previous owner who said he had done nothing to the exup (which means that is at least 6 years and 60k miles - 70k miles and 10 years if the first owner did nothing).  I guess if it was like that from when I got it I would know no difference. 

BUT, I'm not getting any rev counter warning to say the exup is not working.  IS there anyway to check without stripping it down?  Anyone in Sussex that has a Gen1 with a working exup want to ride my bike to compare?

I'm going to start by covering penetrating oil over the bolts for a week or 2.  As this will be on the hot pipe, can I use any penetrating oil (I have GT85, 3in1 and WD40 at home)?  Is just spraying or covering once a day the way to go?  Anything else which may help the bolts come out?  I don't mind a mess and autosolling it later.

Any links to decent replacement bolts or does anyone know the size?

TIA

[ghostbiker]

Think I gave away the last set I had. Will be making some more sets at some point as I flog em at the club stand at the BMF shows we do. Might have the sizes at home will check later but I normaly just take 1 of each down to the shop.
If I have another spare set I will let you know. But sure I don't

[sadlonelygit]

I'm guessing mine is focced as I have no servo noise and just spoken to the previous owner who said he had done nothing to the exup (which means that is at least 6 years and 60k miles - 70k miles and 10 years if the first owner did nothing).  I guess if it was like that from when I got it I would know no difference. 

BUT, I'm not getting any rev counter warning to say the exup is not working.  IS there anyway to check without stripping it down?  Anyone in Sussex that has a Gen1 with a working exup want to ride my bike to compare?

I'm going to start by covering penetrating oil over the bolts for a week or 2.  As this will be on the hot pipe, can I use any penetrating oil (I have GT85, 3in1 and WD40 at home)?  Is just spraying or covering once a day the way to go?  Anything else which may help the bolts come out?  I don't mind a mess and autosolling it later.

Any links to decent replacement bolts or does anyone know the size?

TIA

99 Yamaha R1 EXUP valve operation

replacement bolts are M5 x 0.75 x 12mm

[solorider]

I'm guessing mine is focced as I have no servo noise and just spoken to the previous owner who said he had done nothing to the exup (which means that is at least 6 years and 60k miles - 70k miles and 10 years if the first owner did nothing).  I guess if it was like that from when I got it I would know no difference. 

BUT, I'm not getting any rev counter warning to say the exup is not working.  IS there anyway to check without stripping it down?  Anyone in Sussex that has a Gen1 with a working exup want to ride my bike to compare?

I'm going to start by covering penetrating oil over the bolts for a week or 2.  As this will be on the hot pipe, can I use any penetrating oil (I have GT85, 3in1 and WD40 at home)?  Is just spraying or covering once a day the way to go?  Anything else which may help the bolts come out?  I don't mind a mess and autosolling it later.

Any links to decent replacement bolts or does anyone know the size?

TIA

99 Yamaha R1 EXUP valve operation

replacement bolts are M5 x 0.75 x 12mm

all mine are M6,and i di not have to modify them or the exhaust to fit them

[Ghoti]

Thanks sadlonelygit. Just what I needed.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Get a bag of stainless cap screws from screwfix and cut em down to size. 

Once you've got stainless cap screws in and with a dod of copper ease on em you'll never have a problem getting them back out.  And they cost buttons.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

PlusGas is a top notch release oil.

Tri-Flow is good too.

Stick it on every day and keep using the bike for a week or so.  With a bit of luck they'll come out.  There is an element of luck with the OE screws as they do seem to have been  manufactured by Cadbury.

[martynR]

Mine is half welded now. And has a few screws. If the bike is nearer 10years I would not bet on screws to be undone with penetrating oil. Mine had allen head bolts that rust inside out...