Electrical gremlins, please help!

[Walkerfromwolves]

Hello all,

I have an issue with my FZS1000 which after recently putting it back on the road is somewhat disappointing. It's also made me push it home twice in two days now which is putting my back out!


The bike cuts out randomly (both times when I was riding) and doesn't want to start afterwards. With the ignition switched on the indicators and hazards still work but the headlights don't. The datatool alarm also resets when the ignition is switched on which is not normal.


Checked all the fuses today and all are fine. Ater inspecting and refitting them the bike started but on a test ride around the block cut out again.


Can anyone suggest what to try next? My instincts may be the old datatool alarm or immobiliser (not even sure if it has one).


Thanks for the help,


Whisky

[SkidT]

Hi,


Clearly I don’t know what your exact symptoms are, but I recall numerous previous threads over the years suggesting checking & cleaning the various wiring block connectors. IIRC some of these are located under the near side fairing infill panel, others behind the near side side panels, but I could be wrong.


They can apparently corrode and go green over a period of time and thereby fail to operate as they should.


I also recall people mentioning issues with the ignition switch itself? If you do some searches on the forum, I’m sure that you’ll come across the various threads.


Some years back, I had a similar issue with my Gen1. Bike would run fine, then backfire and cut out. It would sometimes restart again and other times refuse to do so. After some investigation, an auto electrician disconnected  the aftermarket immobiliser and it has been fine ever since.


Hope you manage to get it sorted.


Regards


Allan

[unfazed]

Post a picture of the alarm, some of the early models were not the best and were known to strand people

[PieEater]

I'd suggest the Datatool alarm as being the issue, they have non-replaceable integrated batteries which have a limited lifespan, it would be best to get it removed if it was OEM as if it isn't the problem now it will become one later. Checking the electrical connectors is a good shout, look for any obvious corrosion and shorts, I've gone through mine with a can of electrical contact cleaner followed by ACF50, often it's not inside the blocks but behind them where they join the block that corrosion sets in so make sure to check and treat outside as well as inside the blocks. Under the tank there is a white connector block which is a weak spot, it's not really up to the current that gets put through it, so put this on the top of your list to check. Also your battery may be the issue, a charger can indicate a fully charged battery if it is able to sustain 12v but a battery with a dead cell can do this but not provide the amperage to power the starter. Hope that helps, post back as and when you have news.

[tommyardin]

I had an issue a few years back now, with my then FZS600, Lights would just cut out while riding, including the rear light, brake light continued to work and my engine kept running.
There is on the FZS600 at least a large white plastic connector/junction box under the petrol tank that connect most of the cables in the main wiring harness loom.
water had gotten into this junction box at some point and had caused a bad connection on about 5 of the wire causing them to corrode, they had gone green with verdigris and had been partially eaten away.
This in itself caused much struggling try to get the two halves of the junction box apart.


I cut the wires either side of the junction box, bared both ends the wires and made up a number of 100mm long link wires, slipped on heat shrink and then soldered the links in to the loom, bypassing the offending connection/junction box.
The only downside to this would be should the need arise to remove the loom from the bike, IE: should you want to re-stove enamel the frame.
I'm not saying this is the issue but its worth a thought. 
Your issue seems to be an intermittent one exactly the same as my lighting one, the hardest faults to sort out. 

It certainly cured all my wiring issues.
Good luck and I hope you get the 1K sorted soon, summers almost here.
tommyardin

[Gnasher]

Before you go ripping out alarms check your battery, eg a voltage check, you should have at least 12.2v anything less is a run down or cell damaged  battery.  The fact the main lights aren't coming on is pointing towards this, often older on the way out batteries will show little signs of dying, even when connected to a charger.  As some die they just don't hold their charge once disconnected and die within hours or minutes, the alarm is possibly just doing it's job, e.g. it thinks the battery is being attacked and resets/arms.

I've seen this a lot over the years and it's nothing more than a battery going south.  All that said it could be the alarm or a hopefully just a poor connection/earth, but check the battery first.   



 

[Walkerfromwolves]

Hello all,


Thank you for the help. I also have my suspicion that is it is the datatool alarm. I can't post a picture at the minute as I was forced to leave it at my fathers and ride his BMW back to my house. I'll try post a photo when I can.


I'll go do some digging on the back of your advice and report back. Annoyingly the bike started this morning and seems to be fine but the loss of trust in the bike due to leaving my stranded is damaging in itself!


Whisky

[Walkerfromwolves]

Post a picture of the alarm, some of the early models were not the best and were known to strand people

I've attached photos of the alarm. So far no luck 

[unfazed]

Looks like the Datatool 3 and is unfortunately far to easily bypassed, but it will help to isolate it to test if it is giving trouble or not. Sent you a message, asI don't like putting the methods up on forums of facebook or anywhere else

[Gnasher]

Sent you a message, asI don't like putting the methods up on forums of facebook or anywhere else

That info is available on the Datatol website mate has been for years.  Just follow their draining instructions for a system 3.

[Gaz66]

Oooo gremlins ... we've all had em at some point.
From experience, I would put money on alarms system has had it ... Meta/ Datatool alarm systems are crap & all fail at some point, wiring can be a pain to unpick from the loom & get things back to stock, but it can be done, IMHO it's far safer & easier to wire in your own ignition cut switch & hide it out of sight.
Youtube is your friend if ya not clued up testing with a meter ... Might be worth pulling the ignition switch & check for broken wires (continuity test from switch to loom connector under tank) "Kill" switch can also cause issues, I've had all the above at some point, hence my Meta alarm is long gone.
I also suggest starting at the front of the bike & meter test each loom plug, pull apart & check for the dreaded "Green Death" if you find any, you can pretty much scrap that connector, 2 loom plugs under left front infill trim are the main culprits for corrosion & can shut the bike down for no apparent reason.

[tommyardin]

Hey Walker,
How did you get on sorting out your electrical issue was it the alarm in the end? Or is it still ongoing?
Tommy

[unfazed]

Oooo gremlins ... we've all had em at some point.
From experience, I would put money on alarms system has had it ... Meta/ Datatool alarm systems are crap & all fail at some point, wiring can be a pain to unpick from the loom & get things back to stock, but it can be done, IMHO it's far safer & easier to wire in your own ignition cut switch & hide it out of sight.
Youtube is your friend if ya not clued up testing with a meter ... Might be worth pulling the ignition switch & check for broken wires (continuity test from switch to loom connector under tank) "Kill" switch can also cause issues, I've had all the above at some point, hence my Meta alarm is long gone.
I also suggest starting at the front of the bike & meter test each loom plug, pull apart & check for the dreaded "Green Death" if you find any, you can pretty much scrap that connector, 2 loom plugs under left front infill trim are the main culprits for corrosion & can shut the bike down for no apparent reason.

I totally disagree with that comment about alarms, many are incorrectly fitted and because of that give trouble. I have rarely seen a META cat one alarm fail because of internal issue outside of failed internal batteries. All with the exception of one I have been asked about was down to poor fitting. I have seen so many taped up twisted together wires fitted by so called alarm fitters and professional mechanics it defied logic. Two I have come across was failed fobs due to water ingress after owner replaced the batteries and did not reseal the fob proberly afterwards. The datatool I did not like as an alarm even though it was a good alarm. Got a few calls from fellows with presumed failure but was from interference for high frequecy radio waves from equipment nearby. Moving the bike 50 metres solved it. The earlier models like the Datatool 3 were problematic because of poor sealing and improper mounting making them very prone to faults due to vibration. I am not a professional mechanic or alarm fitter but have been working on low and high voltage elecrtic circuits and electronic since the mid eighties

[Decoke Dave]

 First! Get that alarm professionally removed if you are not confident at doing it yourself. Non standard alarms are a total waste of space and only hinder fault finding! Fact. End off!

[Gaz66]

Oooo gremlins ... we've all had em at some point.
From experience, I would put money on alarms system has had it ... Meta/ Datatool alarm systems are crap & all fail at some point, wiring can be a pain to unpick from the loom & get things back to stock, but it can be done, IMHO it's far safer & easier to wire in your own ignition cut switch & hide it out of sight.
Youtube is your friend if ya not clued up testing with a meter ... Might be worth pulling the ignition switch & check for broken wires (continuity test from switch to loom connector under tank) "Kill" switch can also cause issues, I've had all the above at some point, hence my Meta alarm is long gone.
I also suggest starting at the front of the bike & meter test each loom plug, pull apart & check for the dreaded "Green Death" if you find any, you can pretty much scrap that connector, 2 loom plugs under left front infill trim are the main culprits for corrosion & can shut the bike down for no apparent reason.

I totally disagree with that comment about alarms, many are incorrectly fitted and because of that give trouble. I have rarely seen a META cat one alarm fail because of internal issue outside of failed internal batteries. All with the exception of one I have been asked about was down to poor fitting. I have seen so many taped up twisted together wires fitted by so called alarm fitters and professional mechanics it defied logic. Two I have come across was failed fobs due to water ingress after owner replaced the batteries and did not reseal the fob proberly afterwards. The datatool I did not like as an alarm even though it was a good alarm. Got a few calls from fellows with presumed failure but was from interference for high frequecy radio waves from equipment nearby. Moving the bike 50 metres solved it. The earlier models like the Datatool 3 were problematic because of poor sealing and improper mounting making them very prone to faults due to vibration. I am not a professional mechanic or alarm fitter but have been working on low and high voltage elecrtic circuits and electronic since the mid eighties

Hi Unfazed.
You disagree with my opinion that alarms are crap, then list a shed load of common faults/failings associated with aftermarket alarms that most of us are aware of 


You're entitled to you opinion as am I, but I've fitted plenty of alarms of both cars & bikes over the last 30 odd yrs to justify my comments that alarms are basically shit & a waste of money, there's far easier ways to immobilise a bike that don't involve fault prone electronics that fail due to battery/vibration or water ingress or like you stated, plain poor shitty installation.
Alarm internal batteries are mostly non-replaceable, hence this point alone makes them not worth fitting in the first instance, they will all die at some point, leaving some poor sod in the shit stranded miles from home.

[Wallace]

Did you get this sorted?