Condensation Problems (Maybe)

[Grahamm]

On Sunday I was due to lead a Ride up to Box Hill, so I wheeled the bike out of the shed (brick built, corrugated roof, door to the garden doesn't shut, so air tends to blow around it) and tried to start it...

Now this almost certainly isn't related to my previous issues with the battery because the engine cranked fine, but simply would not fire when normally it starts after a second or so. I gave it a moment, tried again, nothing, so I switched off and switched back on again, but stilll nothing.

I tried squirting some WD 40 under the plug caps (well, the two on the right, at least, because they're really the only ones I can reach even with the nozzle extension on the aerosol) as I've had a problem like this in the past, left it for a minute or so, but it still wouldn't start

I gave it one more go, but even with a freshly charged battery, it doesn't seem to like to crank more than about 5 times and, unfortunately I had flattened it.

I took a break whilst I phoned people up to let them know I was trying to get there ASAP and then tried bump starting it and eventually, after about half a dozen attempts, it started acting like it was trying to fire and finally, two or three more goes later, it did start and, after that it was fine for the rest of the day.

I've seen condensation on the bike in the past after a hot day which then cools off, so I think that may be the problem, but, if it is, can anyone suggest a way that I can stop this happening?

(NB making the shed draught proof is probably not an option at the moment due to cost...)

[fazersharp]

wrap her up in blankets and slow down the change in temp which is where the condensation comes from. Thats my two penath worth.
I have seen on my tank condensation form late summer evening where the petrol is as that is colder than the bit above it with air inside,

[Dave48]

My bike lives in a wooden shed for about 9 months of the year. The other 3 months I bring it inside the house-I know I am fortunate to be able to do this as I dont have a SWMBO to decide otherwise! Reason being the shed is in a very sheltered position and doesnt get sufficient through draught to prevent condensation forming on any cold surface.
Your starting problems are more or less certainly due to electrical reasons and, while WD40 is useful, I have found the best preventitive treatment is a thorough clean(with tank up/seat removed) and then to spray all electrical components including inside all snap connectors with ACF 50. Good idea to remove plug leads and if necessary cut back ends of HT leads to ensure good electrical continuity inside plug connectors. Check battery terminals for tightness/grease terminals.

[fazersharp]

I gave it one more go, but even with a freshly charged battery, it doesn't seem to like to crank more than about 5 times and, unfortunately I had flattened it.

Should only 5 times of flattened the battery ?, maybe the battery is just not strong enough to properly turn over and it then flooded ????

[Simon.Pieman]

My moneys on the battery with this one.

[Fazafou]

My moneys on the battery with this one.

Yep, agree.

Temperature is a big factor in battery performance.

The change to Autumn and colder nights is the time when forums fill with problem starting threads and almost always due to batteries that are on their way out but the warmer summer weather has 'hidden' the issue so it's suddenly a surprise when it doesn't start.

[Grahamm]

the shed is in a very sheltered position and doesnt get sufficient through draught to prevent condensation forming on any cold surface.

Hmm, as mentioned, the door to the garden doesn't close and the one to the alleyway is in a state that makes it look more like a swiss cheese, so, provided there's some breeze, there is definitely a through draught, but I think it may be the heat from the bike which causes the condensation.

Your starting problems are more or less certainly due to electrical reasons and, while WD40 is useful, I have found the best preventitive treatment is a thorough clean(with tank up/seat removed) and then to spray all electrical components including inside all snap connectors with ACF 50. Good idea to remove plug leads and if necessary cut back ends of HT leads to ensure good electrical continuity inside plug connectors. Check battery terminals for tightness/grease terminals.

I get the bike ACF 50 treated by Nooj at ShinybikeSyndrome every year, although that's usually in the winter, so it was last done around the start of this year, but I'll certainly look at what you suggest.

[Grahamm]

Should only 5 times of flattened the battery ?, maybe the battery is just not strong enough to properly turn over and it then flooded ????

It was certainly turning over fast enough the first two or three times (the speed it normally turns over and fires at).

The FZ6 is fuel injected, so surely there's no problems with carb flooding? (Can you flood an injected engine?)

[Fazafou]

A dying battery will spin the engine but not produce the required spark, and will then die as it can't maintain the cranking amps.

As you've found it may have enough left to bump start as its not using all its power on cranking.

If the battery was good, you'd be able to crank it over loads more before it started to fail.

What with your previous issues I think this confirms you just need to get a new battery.

[Grahamm]

A dying battery will spin the engine but not produce the required spark, and will then die as it can't maintain the cranking amps.

Yes, but the thing was, after I'd bumped it successfully, I then rode to Wickham Square and it started fine when we left, ditto when we left Box Hill and the same again when I went out in the evening and then came back. On all of those occasions it was turning over just as quickly as it was when I had tried to start it in the morning.

I've also had it start (eg the time I was in Brighton) when it was a lot more sluggish to turn over, but did fire, hence why I don't think this is related to the previous issues but may be due to condensation causing the power to earth to the engine casing instead of sparking the plug.

[Simon.Pieman]

Yes, but the thing was, after I'd bumped it successfully, I then rode to Wickham Square and it started fine when we left, ditto when we left Box Hill and the same again when I went out in the evening and then came back. On all of those occasions it was turning over just as quickly as it was when I had tried to start it in the morning.

Remember it's not just the turning over that the battery needs to do, it's also providing you with a spark -or not as the case might be.
 I'd still wager on the battery. Batterys that have limped along on Optimate topups behave like this.
 But yours is probably just tired out and needs replacing.

[Fazafou]

No problem.

Everything points to battery, but I hope you find the issue.

[The Gentleman Biker]

Just pop to a local garage, they will check it and tell you right away if the battery is past it.

[Doddsie]

Heat from the bike wont cause condensation, If anything it will stop it. Condensation is caused when damp air hits a COLD surface.

[fireblake]

Hey Graham, if you're ever near Segensworth, Fareham you can pop into Barden batteries. They are near Makro. I get all my batteries from there. They'll check it out for you too.


Mickey

[Dead Eye]

A dying battery will spin the engine but not produce the required spark, and will then die as it can't maintain the cranking amps.

Yes, but the thing was, after I'd bumped it successfully, I then rode to Wickham Square and it started fine when we left, ditto when we left Box Hill and the same again when I went out in the evening and then came back. On all of those occasions it was turning over just as quickly as it was when I had tried to start it in the morning.

I've also had it start (eg the time I was in Brighton) when it was a lot more sluggish to turn over, but did fire, hence why I don't think this is related to the previous issues but may be due to condensation causing the power to earth to the engine casing instead of sparking the plug.

My thou is generally harder to start when it is cold in the mornings after being left overnight in a garage. However, leave it all day parked at work and it is fine to start at the end of the day to go home. The lower temperatures and longer duration before starting make a difference. You wouldn't have been stopped for long enough at your destinations for the same conditions to apply. This means that even if it is a shagged battery, you wouldn't have as much or any difficulty in re-starting your bike - just as your described.

If my point got lost in that, I'm just saying don't take the evidence you've presented to mean that the battery is ok.

[esetest]

I would test the battery first , if you have home start with a breakdown company , get them out , they will test the battery for you .

[Fazafou]

I would test the battery first , if you have home start with a breakdown company , get them out , they will test the battery for you .

There's another thread on it, he's checked it while cranking, volts drop a lot showing low amps and all his issues indicate a knackered battery, while everyone is saying it sounds like a battery problem.

He's got his fingers in his ears going 'la la la it's not my battery it's not my battery......'

[locksmith]

There's another thread on it, he's checked it while cranking, volts drop a lot showing low amps and all his issues indicate a knackered battery, while everyone is saying it sounds like a battery problem.

He's got his fingers in his ears going 'la la la it's not my battery it's not my battery......'

Ooh I sense a multi-quote reply coming your way

[Fazafou]

It'll be typical if it isn't his battery now

[His Dudeness]

How old is the battery? Do you leave the bike parked for a few days in a row or do you use it daily? It's 95% chance its a weak battery and 0.0000016% chance it's a phantom condensation problem A trickle charger would probably be a good investment.

[Grahamm]

He's got his fingers in his ears going 'la la la it's not my battery it's not my battery......'

No, I'm just making sure that it *IS* the battery before I fork out £45-£50 buying a new one and then, having installed it, found out that there's *STILL* a problem and it wasn't the battery after all.

[Grahamm]

Hey Graham, if you're ever near Segensworth, Fareham you can pop into Barden batteries. They are near Makro. I get all my batteries from there. They'll check it out for you too.

That's not that far away, so thanks for the suggestion.

[Grahamm]

A trickle charger would probably be a good investment.

I agree, that's why I bought an Optimate III some years ago and keep the battery topped up with it

[fazersharp]

A trickle charger would probably be a good investment.

I agree, that's why I bought an Optimate III some years ago and keep the battery topped up with it

Yep me too - only its a yam branded cteck one, 16 year old battery. I wonder what would happen if I left it off the charger for a week !