Sorry I'll get my coat [/size]
ok. its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this."this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Quote Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.Nobody ever called Brexiteers impudent or racist.
I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.
Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist
QuoteYes you have most definitely called leavers racist Where?
Quote I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU. No the EU isn't perfect. All those examples you've given either haven't happened or we have opted out of.
The EU direction is clear and has been stated so as a goal. If the referendum is overturned and we end up staying in how much longer after that do you think we will still be able to "opt out" of elements, by staying in the whole EU project will be re- energised and accelerated so those bits you say are not perfect will only get worse.
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images
ok. its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it. lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was. lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in. And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.
Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this."this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Quoteok. its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it. lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was. lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in. And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees. Dear oh dear Ogri.I think we have already in this thread established that the EU is actually a democratic union.Rhetoric is all well and good. But 40 odd pages in and we are still hearing off the EU “gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in” yet so far when pressed the foc u BREXITEERS have come up with;Daylight running lightsGraded bananas Oh and lets not forget Dazza’a great grandfather.QuoteLets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.Stephen Yaxley Lennon rightly got called out as a fascist and racist. Indeed Nigel Farage tore up his UKIP membership card in disgust at his appointment.QuoteNow, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.Yup in order to kill UKIP and win and election he gambled on our EU membership – membership that he himself believes is of great importance to our union. What an ass. QuoteSo i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats allFirstly, I don’t believe we should allow the Tory party to wreck this nation.Secondly, I don’t believe people voted for unemployment and more food banks.Thirdly – two countries in this union voted to REMAIN. My country voted decisively to REMAIN, I fully expect the Scottish Parliament and our representatives at Westminster to fight to REMAIN in the EU. If you believe in democracy you’ll understand and respect that.Fourthly – BREXIT was not defined in the referendum. Yes the race card was played, the central message of being 350 million a week better off was a blatant lie and illegal foreign money was used in the campaign.So aye some off us are mighty pissed off at this English Tory mess. Right now the UK is adrift at sea with nobody at the helm.
Wow. thats a logic and mindset its just about impossible to argue with,