My front brakes are Sh1t

[Jimmygixxer]

Ive had my fazer a while now, my only gripe is that the front brakes are pish. Not good considering they are known to be very good usually.
I have renewed the brake fluid and thoroughly cleaned the pistons back like new.
Still got the original lines and pads on it.
Will a pad change sort them, and do brake pads degrade over 14 years?
Any recommendations on pads?

[Dead Eye]

I'm fairly sure that pads will degrade over time if left to the elements (and potentially if they are organic pads?). I can't see fairly modern pads degrading if the bike is stored though. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

What symptoms do you have regarding the front brakes though? Are they soft, or do they just refuse to stop you? If it's soft then I'd suggest looking at lines / calliper? If they feel fine, but just don't stop you, then I'd suggest pads or potentially discs?

As far as pads go, I have some ceramic SBS pads on mine - I based this on everything that has been discussed here on the forums and other peoples recommendations and I certainly agree with them. I decided on ceramic based on a little bit of research between the different types.

[Fazerider]

Yamaha recommend changing internal rubber components every two years and hoses every four years. Admittedly, they are erring on the side of extreme caution/profit, but 14 years is pushing it a bit.
I'd switch to some aftermarket braided hoses and replace master cylinder and caliper seals with OE ones as well as changing the brake pads.

[Jamieg285]

If you've got the time/money, I'd replace the pads and lines with new.


If like me, the money is an issue, you could start with trying to clean up the existing pads.  Take them out and give a go over with sandpaper to remove the top surface.  (Don't inhale the dust.  It might not be harmful, but best be safe).
 
If that doesn't work, I'd replace the pads and if they don't sort it, you can always swap them back and keep the new set for spares when the originals do wear out.


After then go for new lines. Go for braided if you can afford it, it's worth the investment.




You might also have to look at clean/rebuild/replacing the master cylinder. 

[oldmotherfoccer]

14 year old brake pads   

do you never use them ??

a serviceable item, not serviced for 14 years and you wonder why they are shit - please tell me this was an april the 1st post 

[Jimmygixxer]

14 year old brake pads   

do you never use them ??

a serviceable item, not serviced for 14 years and you wonder why they are shit - please tell me this was an april the 1st post 

Just bought the bike recently and it's only done 10,000 miles. Was sitting in storage for 5 years.
The lever isn't spongy, the braking power is just shit.
Sent for a set of sintered SBS pads as they are highly reccomended at the minute, i will report back when i get them on and run in for a while.

[noggythenog]

Ive been pondering over the pishness of my fazer brakes also,i dont have the bikes history but again only 10k miles,it got through the mot ok so they obviously work to a certain standard but just not what i expected from all the reviews and owners experiences, i swapped bikes with my mate on saturday and rode his gsxr600 for a bit and instantly i felt that its brakes were really sharp, he used to have a fazer and he reckoned from what he could remember that they were much better than mine are now,


So looks like we're in the same boat with some seriously old parts needing renewing,


I wouldnt mind getting some ball park figures for getting a garage to do all the needful with stripping replacing and renewing,plus braided lines.


Any ideas?

[darrsi]

Sorry lads, i'm a London boy, what does 'pish' mean exactly?


Excuse my lack of knowledge......

[His Dudeness]

ya know when you're walking down an alley late at night and someone sneaks up behind you and shouts BOOO. well that stuff trickling down your leg is pish

[Dave48]

The difference between the braking power available on a new bike(once pads bedded in) and one several years old is due to progressive & gradual deterioration of all the moving parts in the system,ie brake master cylinder components,calliper seals and pistons,brake pads AND the non-moving parts ie rubber brake hoses & brake fluid.
If the bike has done few miles from new but is several years old there will still be degradation of all the rubber parts in system,brake fluid, & possibly pads. Yamaha do have a vested interest in selling you parts but whats the use in being able to go like the wind if you cant stop!
If previous service history not available do the lot. By the way an MOT certificate doesnt mean your bike will be ok the day after test if some tired part gives up the ghost

[caretaker]

i can confirm that fazer brakes are not pish! i ride a 2000 600 and while having a thrash a few days ago, i came accross a tractor and trailer across the road. i squeezed the anchors and ended up in a straight line lock up. big black line on road! change the pads at least. you will see a difference. 

[noggythenog]

Anyone know roughly how much id be looking at to get a decent mechanic to do the lot?


I was saving up for a shiny new exhaust but id rather have ace brakes any day.


My brakes seem to lack initial bite,takes a good squeeze of the lever,anyway renewal is def on the cards as id rather have peace of mind that its been done.

[Major Rant]

My brake pads are the original 12 yr old item and they are NOT pish!
 
Brake pads seem to not like being kept damp.
 
How they work is a 'dark art' : It seems that they contain some soft brass or copper that smears against the Iron of the disc and creates friction when it drags against the 'filler' (which used to be asbestos but is now something that is less likely to kill you 40 years down the line).
The result is a black powder that contains Iron and copper: The black stuff that you keep having to clean off the front wheels on your car.
 
If they're kept wet, the surface tends to 'grow' (ie the pad gets thicker) and they turn green (if you look at them with a magnifying glass)
and your job is to wear it down below the "reacted layer".
 
A few 'hard stops' might well solve your problem.
 
 

[darrsi]

 
@HisDudeness

Ha ha ha 

[Jimmygixxer]

Update on the brakes so far.
Fitted new sintered sbs pads on Tuesday, only done 20 odd miles so far but they do seem to have better bite, hard to tell yet as I'm bedding them in.
Fitted new HEL braided lines and fluid today and to be honest I'm not that impressed. Haven't taken it out yet but the lever is only very slightly less spongy at best.
I know that leaves the master cylinder, but is it likely to need re furbed at 10,000 miles, although it is 14 year old?
I cant get my head round how caliper piston seals could make that much of a difference, especially when they don't leak.

[darrsi]

My money is on slightly seized calipers from what you're describing, that can give a spongy feeling!


Changing pads and lines is all good but if the pistons aren't functioning properly then they just don't work right, as i know all too well myself.

[CRH]

My money is on slightly seized calipers from what you're describing, that can give a spongy feeling!


Changing pads and lines is all good but if the pistons aren't functioning properly then they just don't work right, as i know all too well myself.

.....ya know what darrsi?....your right again!!!!!!!! ....two on trot?...much better than ade the blade!! ....i had same problem and ...YES as THE DARRS says sticking pistons

[ade the blade]

My money is on slightly seized calipers from what you're describing, that can give a spongy feeling!


Changing pads and lines is all good but if the pistons aren't functioning properly then they just don't work right, as i know all too well myself.

.....ya know what darrsi?....your right again!!!!!!!! ....two on trot?...much better than ade the blade!! ....i had same problem and ...YES as THE DARRS says sticking pistons

[darrsi]

   
  Ha Ha, go on ask me another, i'm on a roll.......... 

[ade the blade]

   
  Ha Ha, go on ask me another, i'm on a roll.......... 

ok smartarse........tell us the winning euromillions numbers
 
 
 
 
 
 
for the next month ?

[CRH]

dont tell him fk all darrsi?....he dont need the money?....cus ...HE drives a ........BMW!!!!! ......you can tell me though boyfriend .......

[ade the blade]

twisted and sick

[Jimmygixxer]

My money is on slightly seized calipers from what you're describing, that can give a spongy feeling!


Changing pads and lines is all good but if the pistons aren't functioning properly then they just don't work right, as i know all too well myself.

I cleaned all the pistons a few weeks ago and none appeared to be seized as such, but i remember there was one piston which didn't come out as easy as the others.
Also when i pull the lever hard when stationary i noticed  that one caliper has some slight pad movement but the other doesn't.

[CRH]

that just may be the one then?...strip it down again and check it over!!...you should easily be able to push them in with you fingers if ok!! ...

[Jimmygixxer]

that just may be the one then?...strip it down again and check it over!!...you should easily be able to push them in with you fingers if OK!! ...

I remember that it was harder to pump out than the others, is the only way to fix it new seals or do i clean around the seal and re grease?
I never thought one piston would cause sponginess and i thought as the seals got older they would actually get smaller with wear and create less drag, but then again what do i know