Author Topic: Starting Issue - AGAIN (Read 9624 times)

unfazed · « **Reply #25 on:** 04 November 2016, 12:36:10 am »

Your issues is still with the plug caps and wires. Look closely at the coil wires and you will most likely find corrosion. If not there it will be in the caps.
Back to the old cut 10mm off the ends and if OEM caps take them apart, they suffer from corrosion on the spring and washer within or break down of the carbon resistor.
NGK ones are less prone to issues as they have wire wound resistors, but salt can eventually cause problems

darrsi · « **Reply #26 on:** 04 November 2016, 05:30:26 am »

I've got the NGK caps on my bike, and they're a really snug fit and sealed rather well, so don't know why there should be corrosion, but i'll have a look on Saturday, when the weather gets a bit more miserable.
Cheers unfazed.

Jamieg285 · « **Reply #27 on:** 04 November 2016, 12:15:39 pm »

I'd try putting some standard plugs back in it. It may not be the problem, but it's a cheap thing to try.

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #28 on:** 04 November 2016, 01:22:38 pm »

You don't normally use the choke, but have you tried giving it 1/4 - 1/2 choke from cold?

darrsi · « **Reply #29 on:** 04 November 2016, 01:39:17 pm »

Quote from: Jamieg285 on 04 November 2016, 12:15:39 pm

I'd try putting some standard plugs back in it. It may not be the problem, but it's a cheap thing to try.

Previous plugs were Iridium.

darrsi · « **Reply #30 on:** 04 November 2016, 01:41:29 pm »

Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 04 November 2016, 01:22:38 pm

You don't normally use the choke, but have you tried giving it 1/4 - 1/2 choke from cold?

Not since last winter, but i'll give it a go after work later.

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #31 on:** 04 November 2016, 02:36:25 pm »

Quote from: darrsi on 04 November 2016, 01:41:29 pm

Not since last winter, but i'll give it a go after work later.

Reminds me of an old guy I used to work with in the late 90's. He had a diesel Mondeo as his company barge and always complained it was a bitch to start. One day I was walking through the car park as he jumped in his car and turned the key. cranking and cranking before it finally fired up with clouds of smoke everywhere.

Next day I asked him if he had waited for the glow plug light to go out before cranking it? "the what?" was his response.

He never had trouble starting it after that afternoon.

darrsi · « **Reply #32 on:** 04 November 2016, 05:08:13 pm »

Bike just doesn't normally need the choke until the REALLY cold weather kicks in., and even then that's more for warming the bike up rather than actually starting it.

darrsi · « **Reply #33 on:** 04 November 2016, 08:41:46 pm »

Wasn't instant but started reasonably well with a bit of choke from the off.
Can't help feeling it's more of a cheat than a fix though, so i"ll chop the leads as well anyway and refit the caps.

darrsi · « **Reply #34 on:** 06 November 2016, 12:21:42 pm »

I couldn't see any wires at all on HT lead number 1, presumably they get pushed into the walls of the cable over time?
Anyway, i chopped the ends off and refitted the caps so hopefully it'll behave itself now, plus it started instantly as well.

darrsi · « **Reply #35 on:** 08 November 2016, 03:08:30 pm »

Can't believe what a difference it made to the running (and starting) of the bike just by trimming the HT leads!
I honestly thought the bike was already running sweet enough, apart from the starting issue, but after riding the bike yesterday and today it now feels perfect, not only is it starting straight away on the button again, but the engine feels noticeably better in traffic in lower gears.

Job's a good'un.

Dudeofrude · « **Reply #36 on:** 08 November 2016, 03:31:22 pm »

Well done. Even better when it's a free fix too 🖒

robbo · « **Reply #37 on:** 08 November 2016, 05:46:25 pm »

Everyone loves a free fix.Well done darrsi.Just got to plan what to buy with the money you've saved

darrsi · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 December 2016, 07:17:51 pm »

I've been trying to avoid asking again but i'm genuinely stumped now.
Bike seemed to be starting okay over the last few weeks, used a bit of choke in the cold and it was pinging to life so i could let it warm up for a while.

NOW IT'S NOT

For at least a week or more now the bike just doesn't wanna know about starting until a good minute after trying.
With choke, without choke, no throttle, half throttle, full throttle.....
The new battery has been great, so there's not been any issue of power, when cranking over the battery has not tried to die down or anything and has produced a solid source of volts.

Then, after going through all of this rigmarole, morning and evening, the bike will either just ping to life, or as happening tonight again it will make my exhaust look like a rocket launcher, make an almighty bang when backfiring, then ping to life.
It has been suggested to me to try starting with the stand up in the morning, as although i bypassed the faulty side stand switch it does resemble the issues before i figured out what it was.

Other than that, i'm at a bit of a loose end?

As soon as the bike is started it literally runs perfect in every way, with no missing, hesitation, spluttering, etc.

Any ideas welcomed please?

unfazed · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 December 2016, 08:17:00 pm »

Sounds like water in the fuel again

fazersharp · « **Reply #40 on:** 13 December 2016, 08:20:09 pm »

Have you tried clicking your heels 3 times

pilninggas · « **Reply #41 on:** 13 December 2016, 08:24:12 pm »

Quote from: unfazed on 13 December 2016, 08:17:00 pm

Sounds like water in the fuel again

or fuel levels too low.

80% a fuel delivery issue.

open up a carb drain and see what comes out. then hook up a clear tube and see what the fuel level is like on carbs 1 and 4.

Frosties · « **Reply #42 on:** 13 December 2016, 08:52:25 pm »

Quote from: pilninggas on 13 December 2016, 08:24:12 pm

Quote from: unfazed on 13 December 2016, 08:17:00 pm
Sounds like water in the fuel again

or fuel levels too low.

80% a fuel delivery issue.

open up a carb drain and see what comes out. then hook up a clear tube and see what the fuel level is like on carbs 1 and 4.

Or too much fuel. He did say "it will make my exhaust look like a rocket launcher, make an almighty bang when backfiring, then ping to life."

tommyardin · « **Reply #43 on:** 13 December 2016, 10:29:53 pm »

Well reading all the stuff tat has been written on this topic, and taking into account all that Darrsi has done to rectify the fault, I will still plump for an ignition issue.
The high tension side will take a bit of stopping and it seems that seems that Darrsi has been through the obvious stuff on the high tension side. leads, plug caps,
HT connection at the coil packs.

Now 12 volts does not take a lot of stopping, how many times did I have to clean that contact rail on my scalextric race track because of a poor connection between the car and the rail, the cars just stopped and would go no where until the track and the pickup on the base of the car was cleaned. Low voltage need a really good contact.

I would unplug the wires one at a time that go to the coil packs and any other connections associated with the low tension side of the ignition, plug and unplug a few times to make a good contact maybe get some electrical switch cleaner and give the a spray before finally pushing them together.
The reason I am thinking ignition is the fact that fuel is obviously getting into the cylinders and then into the exhaust flooding the later with fuel and when the bike does eventually fire ignites all the fuel in the exhaust system and as they say the rest is history.

Anything that impacts the low tension side I would think is suspect, ignition switch its self maybe or handle bar kill switch, and to be honest if this proves not to be the problem you will certainly have a checked and well serviced ignition system.

Good luck darrsi, a bike that does not start well is really frustrating, and why Oh why does it always do it when you need a quick get away.

darrsi · « **Reply #44 on:** 14 December 2016, 05:23:50 am »

Quote from: Frosties on 13 December 2016, 08:52:25 pm

Quote from: pilninggas on 13 December 2016, 08:24:12 pm
Quote from: unfazed on 13 December 2016, 08:17:00 pm
Sounds like water in the fuel again

or fuel levels too low.

80% a fuel delivery issue.

open up a carb drain and see what comes out. then hook up a clear tube and see what the fuel level is like on carbs 1 and 4.

Or too much fuel. He did say "it will make my exhaust look like a rocket launcher, make an almighty bang when backfiring, then ping to life."

This is probably me using the choke, throttle and just about anything i can while the bike is cranking and when it does finally start i'm igniting the unburnt fuel that has already got through.
So i think the fuelling is as it should be but simply not being ignited.

darrsi · « **Reply #45 on:** 14 December 2016, 05:28:28 am »

Quote from: unfazed on 13 December 2016, 08:17:00 pm

Sounds like water in the fuel again

I only filled the tank on Monday morning, but put a load of Isopropyl in the tank on Monday night, so that has crossed my mind again.

darrsi · « **Reply #46 on:** 14 December 2016, 05:32:48 am »

Quote from: pilninggas on 13 December 2016, 08:24:12 pm

Quote from: unfazed on 13 December 2016, 08:17:00 pm
Sounds like water in the fuel again

or fuel levels too low.

80% a fuel delivery issue.

open up a carb drain and see what comes out. then hook up a clear tube and see what the fuel level is like on carbs 1 and 4.

The thing is though, once it catches and starts the bike immediately runs so sweet that if there wasn't enough fuel i would expect it to run at least a little rough, but it doesn't at all.
The RPM needle on tickover just sits still around the 1200 mark and the bike sounds totally fine.

darrsi · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 December 2016, 06:10:44 am »

Right now i'm thinking it's not fuel mixture levels, i reckon that side of things is okay, although there is a very small nagging doubt about moisture in the tank but deep down i don't feel it is this.

I'm thinking it's an electrical issue.
As i said before it's been pointed out to me that it's similar to the issue i had when i first realised the side stand switch was on its way out, so because of the ridiculous location of it, and lack of access, i bypassed it using a ScotchLock connector.
Whether something has failed there i'm not sure, and due to working hours i don't have any daylight to play with at the moment, not until the weekend anyway.

I'll try it with the stand up this morning and see if it makes any difference, and let you know later.

I still have my "old" plugs i could try putting back in, but both sets are Iridium and i just can't see them being the culprit.
If i had an iffy ignition switch would that not just kill everything? I'm getting power to lights and everything else, although saving power by making sure everything is off when trying to start it.

If it was the coils were breaking down, then yet again i would've thought the bike would've run a bit rough all round, possibly randomly die on me in running, or misfire, but it just doesn't.

By the way, bike electrics are just not my thing.

I'll keep you posted.

red98 · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 December 2016, 06:48:01 am »

Hi darrsi....not read the whole thread but whereabouts is the scotchlock connector ?......iam not a fan of these things on bikes , too much of a moisture trap for my liking........I would check this first....

darrsi · « **Reply #49 on:** 14 December 2016, 07:07:45 am »

Quote from: red98 on 14 December 2016, 06:48:01 am

Hi darrsi....not read the whole thread but whereabouts is the scotchlock connector ?......iam not a fan of these things on bikes , too much of a moisture trap for my liking........I would check this first....

Under the left side panel, so fairly well covered, but i'm gonna check it out, probably on Saturday now though as i'm not a fan of working in the dark and prefer to see what's going on.