Date: 28-03-24  Time: 16:16 pm

Author Topic: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question  (Read 16174 times)

Grahamm

  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,656
    • Main bike:
      FZ6 04-06
    • View Profile
    • Affordable Leather Products
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #50 on: 24 December 2017, 11:56:58 pm »
God son failed his 1st driving test crossing  the white line at a red light moving for a popo car.
Examiner said it was bad luck and common sense to move but also against the law.

Rather harsh, you'd think they'd let that one slide?

Unfortunately they can't, otherwise the Examiner could have lost his job.

The law on this really needs fixing, but there just isn't the desire or impetus to do anything about it at the moment :(

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #51 on: 25 December 2017, 12:16:53 am »
God son failed his 1st driving test crossing  the white line at a red light moving for a popo car.
Examiner said it was bad luck and common sense to move but also against the law.

Rather harsh, you'd think they'd let that one slide?

Unfortunately they can't, otherwise the Examiner could have lost his job.

The law on this really needs fixing, but there just isn't the desire or impetus to do anything about it at the moment :(

Exactly.

I think the law needs altering too.

But that is how the law stands at the present time and anyone urging people to do different is encouraging law breaking. Simple :)

ponkster

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Grumpy Old MF
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - VN 1500 P1
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #52 on: 29 December 2017, 12:08:14 pm »
As a blue light driver I don't expect anyone to put them selves at risk for me to get through - crossing a red light is a big risk !
The one thing we want is drivers to be predictable in their reaction to us - often we will kill the horns as we approach if we can see it is gridlocked ahead - we also will inform control that we are making slow progress which will often prompt a duel turn out.

Its a bad bit of blue light driving if you fly up to a block of stationary traffic and sit there with all the sound on expecting everyone to shift for you - there are often better ways to get through gridlocked city junctions.

No good blue light driver should expect you to put your self at risk, break the law or even damage your vehicle by bumping up the kerb to let them through.
"Don't Die with Fun in the Bank!"

dx408

  • custard tart muncher
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,156
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - Suzuki V-Strom 1050
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #53 on: 29 December 2017, 01:23:00 pm »
It is illegal to go through a red traffic light no matter what.
However it is usually allowed to slide if you are making way for emergency vehicles if they are using their lights and or sirens (not sure about the doctors with their green lights but would assume the same)
More of an issue with traffic light cameras but I use a crash cam so hope that would show why I went through or partially trough a red ATL. Also if the camera takes your photo then it should also take the emergency vehicles picture so they would also have proof of the vehicle and that it was on "blues and two's" while crossing a red light.


IMHO that is
Dont ask it's a chef thing
After 15 years EX-Fazer owner XJR. XJR gone FJR, FJR gone NEW FJR that's gone, now Triumph Tiger Explorer  an CB400n Superdream sold BMW 650 Funduro sold Now a R1200GA Adventure Rallye next ? OK so where next turns out to be V-Strom 1050 NEXT?

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #54 on: 29 December 2017, 02:55:02 pm »
It is illegal to go through a red traffic light no matter what.
However it is usually allowed to slide if you are making way for emergency vehicles if they are using their lights and or sirens (not sure about the doctors with their green lights but would assume the same)
More of an issue with traffic light cameras but I use a crash cam so hope that would show why I went through or partially trough a red ATL. Also if the camera takes your photo then it should also take the emergency vehicles picture so they would also have proof of the vehicle and that it was on "blues and two's" while crossing a red light.


IMHO that is


Nobody answered my previous question before so i'll ask again?


What exactly are you s'posed to do when the lights are stuck on red??
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #55 on: 29 December 2017, 03:07:09 pm »
Nobody answered my previous question before so i'll ask again?


What exactly are you s'posed to do when the lights are stuck on red??

As far as I'm aware it's still illegal to cross a red light, even in those circumstances.

So unless in the case of a motorcycle you could legally wheel it around the offending light, I guess you'd have to find an alternative route.

tommyardin

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,836
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #56 on: 29 December 2017, 05:22:38 pm »
There has been an article in MCN recently saying that it is even illegal to push a motorcycle across, (not along, but across) a pavement if it does not have road side drop kerbs, drop kerbs constitute a right of passage for a motor vehicle, as in someone driveway.
I am assuming that Motor Cycle News know what they are on about.

Pavements are for pedestrians, Bus lanes are for buses, if you go on to either of them you could be prosecuted, no matter what the circumstances,
Just as Red Light means stop, being bullied or coerced into crossing the white line at a red stop light by a emergency vehicle is no excuse in law, you are responsible for your actions, cross a red light and be caught on camera or seen by a heartless officer you will be prosecuted.

The Highway Code states that a red light means stop.
So I guess you should not proceed until a green light is showing, proceed on a red at your peril, there are people who have that right of way travelling at 90 degrees to you, take one of them out and someone loses their life it is death by dangerous driving.

My understanding is if an ambulance, Fire Engine, Police car takes out a car by crossing on a red he will be prosecuted also. The law does allow an emergency vehicle to cross red light, but the rule is proceed with caution, take a car out then there was no caution and therefore it's dangerous driving.           
« Last Edit: 29 December 2017, 05:23:43 pm by tommyardin »

tommyardin

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,836
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #57 on: 29 December 2017, 05:42:11 pm »
No red lights on this journey but was I breaking the law?

NO MOT
NO INSURANCE
NO TAX
NO FRONT BRAKE
SPEEDOMETER CABLE BROKEN
SOFT/PUNCTURED FRONT TYRE
VEHICLE NOT REGISTERED IN MY NAME.

Pushing just purchased C90 home, 1.5 mile push, Mrs tommyardin helped push and took photo, Bless her  :lol
Soft front tyre made it a bugger to push. :o
I was dressed for the task though :lol
« Last Edit: 29 December 2017, 05:44:26 pm by tommyardin »

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #58 on: 29 December 2017, 05:50:20 pm »
So unless in the case of a motorcycle you could legally wheel it around the offending light

I mean if it's legal in the particular circumstance, not stating that I believe it definitely would be.

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #59 on: 29 December 2017, 06:23:23 pm »
A bike mechanic friend once told me that the Honda C90's were the most reliable machines they worked on back in the day.

He said pretty much the only issue they came up against was when customers attempting a home service mistakenly removed the cam chain tensioner bolt instead of the oil drain one.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #60 on: 29 December 2017, 09:40:49 pm »
Nobody answered my previous question before so i'll ask again?


What exactly are you s'posed to do when the lights are stuck on red??

As far as I'm aware it's still illegal to cross a red light, even in those circumstances.

So unless in the case of a motorcycle you could legally wheel it around the offending light, I guess you'd have to find an alternative route.


This is my point, near my work there's a set of lights where this has happened to me about 8 times now.


I'm generally stuffed, just sitting there watching all the other lights keep changing other than the one i'm looking at, the traffic (near the A40) takes minutes to become a major tailback, and it's illegal to use a phone whilst driving.


Fooked.....
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #62 on: 30 December 2017, 10:18:02 am »
That BBC article makes perfect common sense to me. It would be ridiculous to expect motorists to sit there all day when there's clearly a fault with the lights.

But at the same time the authorities have got to show common sense and not fine those drivers for doing so.

That's my exact same gripe with crossing the white line at a red light to allow an ambulance to proceed. Not the action of doing so, but the draconian punishment that may follow doing what seems the common sense thing.




fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,915
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #63 on: 30 December 2017, 11:02:07 am »
I have been in this situation especially when I know the lights and know the order of when mine should be green. So I have sat there and watched the sequence go through 2 or 3 times and each time missing out my lights and yet there was the gap when everyone elses lights were on red which is when mine should be on green.
« Last Edit: 30 December 2017, 11:02:48 am by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #64 on: 30 December 2017, 11:18:10 am »
I have been in this situation especially when I know the lights and know the order of when mine should be green. So I have sat there and watched the sequence go through 2 or 3 times and each time missing out my lights and yet there was the gap when everyone elses lights were on red which is when mine should be on green.


That sounds like a fault to me, but there's a couple of junctions round this way that are set so that drivers turning right don't get a green light every single time all the lights go through their phases.

 I think they are deliberately set that way if they think it's not a busy turning aren't they?.


Grahamm

  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,656
    • Main bike:
      FZ6 04-06
    • View Profile
    • Affordable Leather Products
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #65 on: 30 December 2017, 12:38:38 pm »
There has been an article in MCN recently saying that it is even illegal to push a motorcycle across, (not along, but across) a pavement if it does not have road side drop kerbs, drop kerbs constitute a right of passage for a motor vehicle, as in someone driveway.

I am assuming that Motor Cycle News know what they are on about.

There's an article from a motorcycle solicitors here about riding on the pavement: https://www.whitedalton.co.uk/motorbike-blog/2017/03/can-ride-pavement/

If you keep it short and don't act like a twat, you'll probably be ok.

YamFazFan

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,626
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #66 on: 30 December 2017, 01:25:12 pm »
If you keep it short and don't act like a twat, you'll probably be ok.


.....so long as you are doing it in order to reach a parking place according to the article. That would preclude doing so in order to dodge a faulty traffic light.

I'd love to see someone who genuinely is riding a short way on the pavement to reach a parking space, trying to explain that it is in fact a legal manoeuvre to the copper that's just nicked them :lol

 


darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #67 on: 30 December 2017, 01:28:34 pm »
I have been in this situation especially when I know the lights and know the order of when mine should be green. So I have sat there and watched the sequence go through 2 or 3 times and each time missing out my lights and yet there was the gap when everyone elses lights were on red which is when mine should be on green.


At the crossroads i keep getting caught out at, my lights aren't part of the normal sequence, they just stay stuck on red whilst the other three carry on regardless and miss it out.
As you say, i too know the sequence off by heart so just time it right then give the throttle a bit of welly and i'm off.
The junction is about a mile from the A40, so traffic will literally back up in a few minutes during rush hour. Add to the fact they've very poorly redesigned the road and pavement a little further on and it becomes an absolute nightmare very quickly, to the point i ride a longer way home now to avoid it all but at least i'm constantly moving.
« Last Edit: 30 December 2017, 01:33:14 pm by darrsi »
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

His Dudeness

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,801
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #68 on: 30 December 2017, 04:54:21 pm »
I have been in this situation especially when I know the lights and know the order of when mine should be green. So I have sat there and watched the sequence go through 2 or 3 times and each time missing out my lights and yet there was the gap when everyone elses lights were on red which is when mine should be on green.



At the crossroads i keep getting caught out at, my lights aren't part of the normal sequence, they just stay stuck on red whilst the other three carry on regardless and miss it out.
As you say, i too know the sequence off by heart so just time it right then give the throttle a bit of welly and i'm off.
The junction is about a mile from the A40, so traffic will literally back up in a few minutes during rush hour. Add to the fact they've very poorly redesigned the road and pavement a little further on and it becomes an absolute nightmare very quickly, to the point i ride a longer way home now to avoid it all but at least i'm constantly moving.


Is it just the bike that doesn't trigger the sequence or cars too? If it's just the bike if you look down at the road as you approach the lights you should see a box shape cut into the road. Try stopping with your wheels right on top of one of the lines of the box and that will give you the best chance of triggering the lights.




darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #69 on: 30 December 2017, 05:00:49 pm »
I have been in this situation especially when I know the lights and know the order of when mine should be green. So I have sat there and watched the sequence go through 2 or 3 times and each time missing out my lights and yet there was the gap when everyone elses lights were on red which is when mine should be on green.



At the crossroads i keep getting caught out at, my lights aren't part of the normal sequence, they just stay stuck on red whilst the other three carry on regardless and miss it out.
As you say, i too know the sequence off by heart so just time it right then give the throttle a bit of welly and i'm off.
The junction is about a mile from the A40, so traffic will literally back up in a few minutes during rush hour. Add to the fact they've very poorly redesigned the road and pavement a little further on and it becomes an absolute nightmare very quickly, to the point i ride a longer way home now to avoid it all but at least i'm constantly moving.


Is it just the bike that doesn't trigger the sequence or cars too? If it's just the bike if you look down at the road as you approach the lights you should see a box shape cut into the road. Try stopping with your wheels right on top of one of the lines of the box and that will give you the best chance of triggering the lights.





Nothing to do with that at all, this is a very busy road.
The lights just keep fucking up, simple as that, they don't need triggering.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

His Dudeness

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,801
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #70 on: 30 December 2017, 05:05:56 pm »
Must be just broken then. You could report it https://www.gov.uk/report-problem-traffic-light

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #71 on: 30 December 2017, 05:13:09 pm »
Must be just broken then. You could report it https://www.gov.uk/report-problem-traffic-light


The point was more about what are you s'posed to legally or sensibly do when you're actually stuck there at that time.
I've rung the council before when i've eventually got home, but that would be around 30mins later.
30mins of stoppage in that road would cause major traffic, and i mean a lot. Then it would take time to send someone out as well, so i dread to think how long it would take to fix, unless they can sort it via computer, which sounds feasible?
The Italian Job springs to mind.  :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

Grahamm

  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,656
    • Main bike:
      FZ6 04-06
    • View Profile
    • Affordable Leather Products
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #72 on: 31 December 2017, 12:35:41 am »
Is it just the bike that doesn't trigger the sequence or cars too? If it's just the bike if you look down at the road as you approach the lights you should see a box shape cut into the road. Try stopping with your wheels right on top of one of the lines of the box and that will give you the best chance of triggering the lights.

Unfortunately sometimes the Induction Loop just isn't set to be sensitive enough to pick up the smaller amount of metal in a bike, compared to a car :(

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,648
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #73 on: 31 December 2017, 05:30:42 am »
Is it just the bike that doesn't trigger the sequence or cars too? If it's just the bike if you look down at the road as you approach the lights you should see a box shape cut into the road. Try stopping with your wheels right on top of one of the lines of the box and that will give you the best chance of triggering the lights.

Unfortunately sometimes the Induction Loop just isn't set to be sensitive enough to pick up the smaller amount of metal in a bike, compared to a car :(


There's a set of lights literally across the road from where i live that has this type of sensor. Why the lights are even there is completely puzzling because it's a very quiet side road with just houses and a dead end?
But i have a mate who lives there so have popped round his house then sat like a total plum at these lights that haven't picked up the sense that my bike is even there many times before. I now just have a quick glance around to see who's about then ride straight through it. Again, i know the sequence so can very safely exit the road without any danger issues at all.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

tommyardin

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,836
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: Emergency Vehicle/Red Light Question
« Reply #74 on: 31 December 2017, 09:08:48 am »
Must be just broken then. You could report it https://www.gov.uk/report-problem-traffic-light


But don't sit on your bike and phone them on your mobile  :lol