Date: 29-03-24  Time: 02:35 am

Author Topic: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)  (Read 13574 times)

gtfire

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Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« on: 06 March 2014, 07:26:43 pm »
My job gives me a great insight into road safety and this morning I found myself dealing with a poor HD rider that had came together with a small HGV. He was wearing an open faced helmet and is now a few teeth short and has a seriously painful jaw along with other injuries.
I'm not a law man so don't know the laws on lids but when is a helmet not a helmet? Or when does a helmet become a hat?
Gt

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #1 on: 06 March 2014, 07:42:43 pm »
The risks of wearing open-face lids. Personally, I don't think I'd wear one, but I would defend other's choice to do so. As long as it has the EC22 approval, it's legal of course.

This takes us right back to the usual arguments of wearing the best kit - we all know it's safer to do so, but I firmly believe it should remain the rider's choice.

gtfire

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #2 on: 06 March 2014, 07:52:17 pm »
Couldn't agree more. If what you do does not affect others it should be a user choice and I think this goes for all things in life.


But I still would like a more animate answer!
Gt

noggythenog

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #3 on: 06 March 2014, 07:54:55 pm »
You cant ride a Harley without an open face helmet.




It just isn't right.
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gtfire

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #4 on: 06 March 2014, 07:57:13 pm »
You cant ride a Harley without an open face helmet.




It just isn't right.


To true, he also had a great Beard.
Gt

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #5 on: 06 March 2014, 07:58:31 pm »
You cant ride a Harley without an open face helmet.


It just isn't right.

Riding a Harley at all just isn't right  ;)


But I still would like a more animate answer!

Do you mean an argument? Ok, if you wear an open face lid, you're stupid.
Flame war in 3....2.....1...  :lol

noggythenog

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #6 on: 06 March 2014, 08:02:04 pm »





Well according to this a helmet is a hat ;)





helmet

ˈhɛlmɪt/

noun


1.


a hard or padded protective hat, various types of which are worn by soldiers, police officers, motorcyclists, sports players, and others.

  • 2.


    BOTANY
    the arched upper part (galea) of the corolla in some flowers, especially those of the mint and orchid families.
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dx408

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #7 on: 06 March 2014, 08:04:39 pm »
Had an accident way back in 1986/7 riding a SR125 car pulled out infront of me on a roundabout I was doing about 25mph and had about 1/2 a bikes length before I hit the car. the order was wing bonnet windscreen roof tarmac. I had a pear lid but as it was a bit windy I had worn my full face, as I hit the windscreen with my head I was glad I had worn the full face there was a gouge from the chin piece up and through the visor over to the crown of the lid. I will never wear a peak again, would I tell others not to wear such a lid too right I will. Would I want them made illegal well no.
I walked away from the accident much to the surprise of the ambulance crew no small thanks to the lid.

The guy looking after me in the ambulance said they had the call "young rider small bike collision with a car has gone over the roof" he said they thought it was going to be either a big rush to A&E or a slow drive to the morgue but what he had not expected was me walking and talking very sore but not even needing to visit the hospital. Good lid good gloves good boots decent jacket but just jeans (young chef could not afford better)

You may thing they look good or give you a better wind in the face experience but IMHO bin them and wear a full face.
Dont ask it's a chef thing
After 15 years EX-Fazer owner XJR. XJR gone FJR, FJR gone NEW FJR that's gone, now Triumph Tiger Explorer  an CB400n Superdream sold BMW 650 Funduro sold Now a R1200GA Adventure Rallye next ? OK so where next turns out to be V-Strom 1050 NEXT?

dx408

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #8 on: 06 March 2014, 08:08:28 pm »
Quote
Riding a Harley at all just isn't right  ;)

Hey come on you know 90% or Harleys ever made are still on the road



the other 10% managed to make it home  :lol



Old one but still a good 'un



Got my coat and I'm off
Dont ask it's a chef thing
After 15 years EX-Fazer owner XJR. XJR gone FJR, FJR gone NEW FJR that's gone, now Triumph Tiger Explorer  an CB400n Superdream sold BMW 650 Funduro sold Now a R1200GA Adventure Rallye next ? OK so where next turns out to be V-Strom 1050 NEXT?

Razgruff

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #9 on: 06 March 2014, 10:50:05 pm »
Full face helmets keep you looking pretty if you come off,
All helmets do is stop penetration injuries to a point.
No helmet will prevent some types of brain injuries that's why Helmet manufacturers don't guarantee their product.
There was some research years ago that the face can act as an energy absorption and help to prevent some types of brain injuries.
there is research that has proved the weight of helmets can increase the severity and possibility of neck spinal injuries.

if you want to keep yer head safe ? ride in a cage, and then their are more head injuries in car accidents than on bikes, so better wear a helmet in there to lol

yer make your choices and take yer chances.

Best way to minimise and prevent motorcycle accident injuries.
Don't get on the bloody thing in the first place ;-)



chris.biker

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #10 on: 06 March 2014, 11:00:13 pm »
The risks of wearing open-face lids. Personally, I don't think I'd wear one, but I would defend other's choice to do so. As long as it has the EC22 approval, it's legal of course.

This takes us right back to the usual arguments of wearing the best kit - we all know it's safer to do so, but I firmly believe it should remain the rider's choice.


The safest kit is a twin air bagged, ABS fitted car!

AllyBally

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #11 on: 06 March 2014, 11:26:31 pm »
I am a member of another bike forum, every year around summer there is a discussion concerning open face lids,it's always a hot topic.
  It's all down to personal choice, I wear a full face, but have had an open face in past and probably would  wear an open face again in hot weather for a gentle cruise etc.
    A friend came off his bike several years ago,broke an arm and shoulder,then slid face first into a curb stone,which resulted in him shattering his jaw and losing about a dozen teeth, and yes knowing what happened to my friend I would still wear an open face,albeit just for occasional  rides, day to day rides(ie normal riding/commuting) I would wear my full face.
   At the end of the day,I know the risks,and I'll take my chances,but then we all do that every time we ride our bikes.
The voices told me to do it !!

Noj

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #12 on: 07 March 2014, 12:41:04 am »


I'm not a law man so don't know the laws on lids but when is a helmet not a helmet? Or when does a helmet become a hat?

When it's a washing up bowl!

When I was in Taiwan I took one of the families bikes out for a spin and the lids were one size (XXL) fits all and I'm not kidding a washing up bowl was more substantial.

Arfa

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #13 on: 07 March 2014, 08:59:16 am »
If what you do does not affect others it should be a user choice ...


But of course to play devils advocate and open a big can of worms, the difference between wearing a piss pot and full face, may well affect others.


Whether its the extra damage you incur resulting in extra medical care, possibly in the long term by friends/family. Or your own self esteem/confidence/possibly depression, from nasty facial wounds, permanent disfigurement, unable to eat properly etc.


Wearing a piss pot may well end up being the difference between surviving or going down with something like a huge facial injury screwing up your airway and proving fatal. There's an argument to say that your own death will affect others, be they close friends and family, little 'uns growing up without a parent will massively affect their life. Or just the 3rd party racked with guilt for years to come (regardless of blame).


We shouldn't down play or underestimate the psychological affects a disfiguring or fatal injury can have on yourself and those near to you.


So, yes, it may well be your choice to wing it and skimp on safety gear, but it would be wrong to think the consequences wouldn't affect anyone else.


BBROWN1664

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #14 on: 07 March 2014, 09:37:12 am »
On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.

Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.

BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

gtfire

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #15 on: 07 March 2014, 10:33:21 am »
On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.

Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.

BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!


In every incident I have been to all Helmets have been removed at a very early stage. There is a clear process to removing the helmet be it an open faced or not. Some Ambulance staff are a little reluctant at the very early stages but it soon becomes clear that in nearly all cases it's the only way you can stabilise a casualty for transportation.
But a flip lid or open face does allow fast access to airways but that lid would be off very quick if CPR was required.

Gt

Simon.Pieman

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #16 on: 07 March 2014, 12:35:36 pm »
I wear an open face in asian countries because you get much more spacial awareness than if you were wearing a fullface. The peripheral vision is better, hearing is better and just as importantly it's cooler. Sitting in a Bangkok traffic jam in 45C wearing a fullface is a recipe for suicide or at the very least heat exhaustion.

Arfa

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #17 on: 07 March 2014, 12:46:57 pm »
On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.

Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.

BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!


In every incident I have been to all Helmets have been removed at a very early stage. There is a clear process to removing the helmet be it an open faced or not. Some Ambulance staff are a little reluctant at the very early stages but it soon becomes clear that in nearly all cases it's the only way you can stabilise a casualty for transportation.
But a flip lid or open face does allow fast access to airways but that lid would be off very quick if CPR was required.


This was pretty much echoed in the Biker Down course I attended last night. Get that lid off asap, preferable the causality themselves would remove it before they go down hill. We were all shown how to remove a lid safely and encouraged to remove it early on. Sure, mouth-2-mouth isn't deemed so critical for CPR these days and an open face/flip lid may still allow it, but a lid can still stop you angling the head back to open airways. Damaged c-spine or not, if they ain't breathing, they'll be dead in few minutes.

Simon.Pieman

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #18 on: 07 March 2014, 01:56:44 pm »
Damaged c-spine or not, if they ain't breathing, they'll be dead in few minutes.

 Not good advice, chest compression helps the heart move blood that has already been oxygenated by the lungs round to the brain and there's no telling how long this enriched blood lasts, it could be some time. Certainly people have been revived after many minutes of compression and no breaths given.
 Best to keep compressions going until paramedics arrive and give a breath if you can, after every dozen or so compressions. And don't blame yourself if your arms cramp up and you have to give up.

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #19 on: 07 March 2014, 02:03:25 pm »
You are all sick.  The idea of a piss pot on your head.  Wear an open faced helmet you wierdos!

richfzs

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #20 on: 07 March 2014, 02:10:55 pm »
Most sensible thing said so far. The smurfs are taking over the asylum...

BBROWN1664

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #21 on: 07 March 2014, 02:17:56 pm »
The first aid courses these days teach CPR without the mouth to mouth part. Chest compressions only as this pumps the blood and gets some air in the lungs. Not a lot of people know that though.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

dx408

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #22 on: 07 March 2014, 03:08:54 pm »
On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.

Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.

BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!
One good point that's why I use a flip front as well
Dont ask it's a chef thing
After 15 years EX-Fazer owner XJR. XJR gone FJR, FJR gone NEW FJR that's gone, now Triumph Tiger Explorer  an CB400n Superdream sold BMW 650 Funduro sold Now a R1200GA Adventure Rallye next ? OK so where next turns out to be V-Strom 1050 NEXT?

Slaninar

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #23 on: 07 March 2014, 04:39:09 pm »
My job gives me a great insight into road safety and this morning I found myself dealing with a poor HD rider that had came together with a small HGV. He was wearing an open faced helmet and is now a few teeth short and has a seriously painful jaw along with other injuries.
I'm not a law man so don't know the laws on lids but when is a helmet not a helmet? Or when does a helmet become a hat?



Open face lids are OK for Harley riders.


Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

stevierst

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Re: Open Face, Piss Pot (safe?)
« Reply #24 on: 07 March 2014, 05:24:16 pm »
Another jib at HD riders
Stop polishing it and ride the bloody thing!!