Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: gtfire on 06 March 2014, 07:26:43 pm
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My job gives me a great insight into road safety and this morning I found myself dealing with a poor HD rider that had came together with a small HGV. He was wearing an open faced helmet and is now a few teeth short and has a seriously painful jaw along with other injuries.
I'm not a law man so don't know the laws on lids but when is a helmet not a helmet? Or when does a helmet become a hat?
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The risks of wearing open-face lids. Personally, I don't think I'd wear one, but I would defend other's choice to do so. As long as it has the EC22 approval, it's legal of course.
This takes us right back to the usual arguments of wearing the best kit - we all know it's safer to do so, but I firmly believe it should remain the rider's choice.
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Couldn't agree more. If what you do does not affect others it should be a user choice and I think this goes for all things in life.
But I still would like a more animate answer!
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You cant ride a Harley without an open face helmet.
It just isn't right.
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You cant ride a Harley without an open face helmet.
It just isn't right.
To true, he also had a great Beard.
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You cant ride a Harley without an open face helmet.
It just isn't right.
Riding a Harley at all just isn't right ;)
But I still would like a more animate answer!
Do you mean an argument? Ok, if you wear an open face lid, you're stupid.
Flame war in 3....2.....1... :lol
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Well according to this a helmet is a hat ;)
helmet
ˈhɛlmɪt/
noun
1.
a hard or padded protective hat, various types of which are worn by soldiers, police officers, motorcyclists, sports players, and others.
2.
BOTANY
the arched upper part (galea) of the corolla in some flowers, especially those of the mint and orchid families.
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Had an accident way back in 1986/7 riding a SR125 car pulled out infront of me on a roundabout I was doing about 25mph and had about 1/2 a bikes length before I hit the car. the order was wing bonnet windscreen roof tarmac. I had a pear lid but as it was a bit windy I had worn my full face, as I hit the windscreen with my head I was glad I had worn the full face there was a gouge from the chin piece up and through the visor over to the crown of the lid. I will never wear a peak again, would I tell others not to wear such a lid too right I will. Would I want them made illegal well no.
I walked away from the accident much to the surprise of the ambulance crew no small thanks to the lid.
The guy looking after me in the ambulance said they had the call "young rider small bike collision with a car has gone over the roof" he said they thought it was going to be either a big rush to A&E or a slow drive to the morgue but what he had not expected was me walking and talking very sore but not even needing to visit the hospital. Good lid good gloves good boots decent jacket but just jeans (young chef could not afford better)
You may thing they look good or give you a better wind in the face experience but IMHO bin them and wear a full face.
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Riding a Harley at all just isn't right ;)
Hey come on you know 90% or Harleys ever made are still on the road
the other 10% managed to make it home :lol
Old one but still a good 'un
Got my coat and I'm off
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Full face helmets keep you looking pretty if you come off,
All helmets do is stop penetration injuries to a point.
No helmet will prevent some types of brain injuries that's why Helmet manufacturers don't guarantee their product.
There was some research years ago that the face can act as an energy absorption and help to prevent some types of brain injuries.
there is research that has proved the weight of helmets can increase the severity and possibility of neck spinal injuries.
if you want to keep yer head safe ? ride in a cage, and then their are more head injuries in car accidents than on bikes, so better wear a helmet in there to lol
yer make your choices and take yer chances.
Best way to minimise and prevent motorcycle accident injuries.
Don't get on the bloody thing in the first place ;-)
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The risks of wearing open-face lids. Personally, I don't think I'd wear one, but I would defend other's choice to do so. As long as it has the EC22 approval, it's legal of course.
This takes us right back to the usual arguments of wearing the best kit - we all know it's safer to do so, but I firmly believe it should remain the rider's choice.
The safest kit is a twin air bagged, ABS fitted car!
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I am a member of another bike forum, every year around summer there is a discussion concerning open face lids,it's always a hot topic.
It's all down to personal choice, I wear a full face, but have had an open face in past and probably would wear an open face again in hot weather for a gentle cruise etc.
A friend came off his bike several years ago,broke an arm and shoulder,then slid face first into a curb stone,which resulted in him shattering his jaw and losing about a dozen teeth, and yes knowing what happened to my friend I would still wear an open face,albeit just for occasional rides, day to day rides(ie normal riding/commuting) I would wear my full face.
At the end of the day,I know the risks,and I'll take my chances,but then we all do that every time we ride our bikes.
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I'm not a law man so don't know the laws on lids but when is a helmet not a helmet? Or when does a helmet become a hat?
When it's a washing up bowl!
When I was in Taiwan I took one of the families bikes out for a spin and the lids were one size (XXL) fits all and I'm not kidding a washing up bowl was more substantial.
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If what you do does not affect others it should be a user choice ...
But of course to play devils advocate and open a big can of worms, the difference between wearing a piss pot and full face, may well affect others.
Whether its the extra damage you incur resulting in extra medical care, possibly in the long term by friends/family. Or your own self esteem/confidence/possibly depression, from nasty facial wounds, permanent disfigurement, unable to eat properly etc.
Wearing a piss pot may well end up being the difference between surviving or going down with something like a huge facial injury screwing up your airway and proving fatal. There's an argument to say that your own death will affect others, be they close friends and family, little 'uns growing up without a parent will massively affect their life. Or just the 3rd party racked with guilt for years to come (regardless of blame).
We shouldn't down play or underestimate the psychological affects a disfiguring or fatal injury can have on yourself and those near to you.
So, yes, it may well be your choice to wing it and skimp on safety gear, but it would be wrong to think the consequences wouldn't affect anyone else.
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On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.
Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.
BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!
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On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.
Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.
BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!
In every incident I have been to all Helmets have been removed at a very early stage. There is a clear process to removing the helmet be it an open faced or not. Some Ambulance staff are a little reluctant at the very early stages but it soon becomes clear that in nearly all cases it's the only way you can stabilise a casualty for transportation.
But a flip lid or open face does allow fast access to airways but that lid would be off very quick if CPR was required.
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I wear an open face in asian countries because you get much more spacial awareness than if you were wearing a fullface. The peripheral vision is better, hearing is better and just as importantly it's cooler. Sitting in a Bangkok traffic jam in 45C wearing a fullface is a recipe for suicide or at the very least heat exhaustion.
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On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.
Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.
BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!
In every incident I have been to all Helmets have been removed at a very early stage. There is a clear process to removing the helmet be it an open faced or not. Some Ambulance staff are a little reluctant at the very early stages but it soon becomes clear that in nearly all cases it's the only way you can stabilise a casualty for transportation.
But a flip lid or open face does allow fast access to airways but that lid would be off very quick if CPR was required.
This was pretty much echoed in the Biker Down course I attended last night. Get that lid off asap, preferable the causality themselves would remove it before they go down hill. We were all shown how to remove a lid safely and encouraged to remove it early on. Sure, mouth-2-mouth isn't deemed so critical for CPR these days and an open face/flip lid may still allow it, but a lid can still stop you angling the head back to open airways. Damaged c-spine or not, if they ain't breathing, they'll be dead in few minutes.
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Damaged c-spine or not, if they ain't breathing, they'll be dead in few minutes.
Not good advice, chest compression helps the heart move blood that has already been oxygenated by the lungs round to the brain and there's no telling how long this enriched blood lasts, it could be some time. Certainly people have been revived after many minutes of compression and no breaths given.
Best to keep compressions going until paramedics arrive and give a breath if you can, after every dozen or so compressions. And don't blame yourself if your arms cramp up and you have to give up.
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You are all sick. The idea of a piss pot on your head. Wear an open faced helmet you wierdos!
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Most sensible thing said so far. The smurfs are taking over the asylum...
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The first aid courses these days teach CPR without the mouth to mouth part. Chest compressions only as this pumps the blood and gets some air in the lungs. Not a lot of people know that though.
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On the other hand, a piss pot does not need removing for someone to give you mouth to mouth resuscitation or for the ambulance guys to use an O2 mask on you meaning potentially less neck injuries.
Personally, I wear a flip front most of the time so have the best of both. Full face protection but easy access should it be needed.
BTW, I know that the current method of CPR does not include mouth to mouth (just chest compressions) but not everyone does!
One good point that's why I use a flip front as well
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My job gives me a great insight into road safety and this morning I found myself dealing with a poor HD rider that had came together with a small HGV. He was wearing an open faced helmet and is now a few teeth short and has a seriously painful jaw along with other injuries.
I'm not a law man so don't know the laws on lids but when is a helmet not a helmet? Or when does a helmet become a hat?
Open face lids are OK for Harley riders.
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q71/s720x720/1453361_598300906890173_129434828_n.jpg)
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Another jib at HD riders
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/08/yjeny9yr.jpg)
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So, yes, it may well be your choice to wing it and skimp on safety gear, but it would be wrong to think the consequences wouldn't affect anyone else.
yep I skimp on side impact protection, airbags, the stability of 4 wheels.
And how many times have I heard motorcycle haters remind me how they are bloody dangerous things, and should be banned.
What gives bikers the right to get thrown across somebodies bonnet, and traumatise the poor driver when the see the bikers body slid under to wheels of an oncoming artic.
If the bloody idiot biker was in a car, the worst that would have happened is his airbag would have gone off Quite possibly the accident may never have happened in the first place if the idiot was in a car and given the driver a chance to see something of a decent size.
Bloody bikes you can never see them, it's their own bloody fault, must have some kind of death wish to get on the bloody things in the first place.
It ain't what you wrap around your head that will save your life.
It's the processes that go on inside your head every millisecond of a ride
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It ain't what you wrap around your head that will save your life.
It's the processes that go on inside your head every millisecond of a ride
Couldn't have said it better myself
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It ain't what you wrap around your head that will save your life.
It's the processes that go on inside your head every millisecond of a ride
Couldn't have said it better myself
Touche!
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It ain't what you wrap around your head that will save your life.
Whenever you fall and hit your head, for whatever reason, helmet will make a big difference. Just like seat belt of a car.
It's the processes that go on inside your head every millisecond of a ride
Some food for thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWFVB7aUsTw
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Whenever you fall and hit your head, for whatever reason, helmet will make a big difference. Just like seat belt of a car.
We're discussing whether having a chin guard on your helmet makes a significant difference.
Not about wearing or not wearing a helmet.
We could start discussing the the improved safety of a 5 point car seat belt over a 3 point seat belt :pokefun
I just find all the good kit discussions ironic when you take a step back from them and view them from a wider road safety view point.
Do you think that if motorcycles did not already exist, and were a new invention.
A vehicle with so little protection for it's operator and inherent stability issues would be allowed on public roads.
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We're discussing whether having a chin guard on your helmet makes a significant difference.
Not about wearing or not wearing a helmet.
We could start discussing the the improved safety of a 5 point car seat belt over a 3 point seat belt :pokefun
I just find all the good kit discussions ironic when you take a step back from them and view them from a wider road safety view point.
Do you think that if motorcycles did not already exist, and were a new invention.
A vehicle with so little protection for it's operator and inherent stability issues would be allowed on public roads.
I was reffering to this:
"It ain't what you wrap around your head that will save your life."
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I[/size]f you don't fasten a seat belt, or put a helmet, you could get killed from a minor crash. That's why they're obligatory. You can use better (like the 5 point seat belt etc) if you like, but the law obliges you to use the minimum required by a standard at least.
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Sod it, I'm gonna take after this dude!
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That's soo awesome!
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Sod it, I'm gonna take after this dude!
Tsk tsk, no gloves, remember ATGATT kids :wink