Date: 29-03-24  Time: 01:59 am

Author Topic: Another Carb question!  (Read 1666 times)

Timbo

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Another Carb question!
« on: 21 March 2021, 03:05:23 pm »
Hi all,


Mine is an 05 Ivanised and I have been using it regularly.


I have just done a 36k service and cleaned and stripped the EXUP. I noted that two faces of the EXUP (left half of the engine) were more sooty than the right. My exhaust is also quite sooty too. I have always balanced the carbs so I do not think is it as simple as just a balance. The plugs were not sooty but neither were they that nice grey/brown; more brown. As I did the plugs first, I did not take particular note if two were noteworthy!


I used a infra-red thermometer to measure the exhaust temps but I struggled to get a consistent position to be certain of my results but that also tends to suggest there is a difference in fuelling.


I have always had my suspicions that the bike bike runs a bit a rich and is not as sharp on throttle response as my first Gen 1 after is was Ivanised.


I know for certain my current bike was Ivanised by Mike (Falcon69) - I am hoping he will chip in with a response to this.


Thoughts please ?


Bw


Tim








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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #1 on: 22 March 2021, 07:38:49 am »
Hi Tim,

Please remind me when I did your bike and what exhaust can you have.

Also, what sort of riding do you do?  Are you a 'surf the torque' guy or 'redline warrior'? ;)

Mike

Timbo

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #2 on: 22 March 2021, 08:00:06 am »
Morning Mike,


I brought this bike from a guy Northampton way, you put me in touch with him via the forum, (you did my original in Worthing, which by the way, I should never have sold, especially for a GS!!!  :'( [size=78%]) [/size])


Delkelvic exhaust on this one, baffle in. I'm a 3rd, 4th, 5th gear style of  rider keeping it spinning 8-10000rpm when I'm in the twisties. Rarely do motorway long hauls.


I was wondering if the pilot screws need adjusting? K&N air filter fitted. I do tend to think this has been like it since I brought it with 20k on it, its now on 36K miles


Bw
« Last Edit: 22 March 2021, 11:17:04 am by Timbo »

unfazed

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #3 on: 22 March 2021, 11:04:39 am »
When was the K&N filter washed out and reoiled last?

Timbo

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #4 on: 22 March 2021, 11:06:20 am »
When was the K&N filter washed out and reoiled last?


It's always clean!


The interesting point is that it is two exhausts on one side of the EXUP valve that are sooty so it suggests a fueling issue on one half of the carb bank rather than a lack of air across all four.
« Last Edit: 22 March 2021, 11:14:38 am by Timbo »

Falcon 269

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #5 on: 23 March 2021, 07:03:11 am »
I can think of no logical reason for two carbs on one side of the motor to be richer than the others, Tim.  It can't be coil-related because they're 1-4, 2-3.

I set mixture screws at 4 1/4 turns out usually but back when I started doing the Full Monty installs, I followed Ivan's instructions for 4 1/2 to 5 turns.  I found that a bit rich on my own bike and reduced accordingly.  That's why I asked for a timeframe on when I might have done your bike.  If you're going to check/adjust the mixture screws, go with 4 turns out.

I'm sure the needle spacers will be correct - unless someone else has been messing since I did the job, of course.

It sounds like you're particular with maintaining the K&N filter but is it possible you might have over-oiled it?  As you can tell, I'm reaching for ideas here. :)

Also, I wonder if the Delkevic with baffle in is restricting gas flow a touch.  Might cause a bit of back-up in the EXUP chamber or alter the scavenging characteristics of the exhaust. 

Do you have an ignition advancer fitted?  When did you last check your TPS setting?  Try it at 10k to advance the ignition and see if this perks up throttle response.

Sorry I can't direct you at a specific reason but this is the first time I've seen this mentioned.

Timbo

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #6 on: 23 March 2021, 07:53:48 am »
Hi Mike,


Thanks for the reply. I brought the bike 6yrs ago so I suspect you probably did it some time prior to 2014 possibly after 2011/12?


I will check the pilot screw settings.


I'm liberal with the K&N oil but I don't think I flood it any more on this bike than the last or indeed the Tiger but I will bear the point in mind.


I've no ignition advancer fitted (as far as I am aware). I will check the TPS, I've never done so on this one to date.


Otherwise the end-can is the only difference between the two bikes. My original had a Quill T3 can (road legal) and I think it seemed to suit the bike well, it could well be that the Delkelvic does not.


I'll check the setup this week and let you know what I find. Thereafter if all is as it should be I may consider trying a new can; its bonus time of year. I was going to treat the bike to a new rear shock too!


I hope your well too


Bw




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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #7 on: 23 March 2021, 04:34:33 pm »
Doing fine, Tim - thanks.  Moving back to the UK permanently in May. 

Let me know what you find. :)

Timbo

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #8 on: 27 March 2021, 03:07:43 pm »
A quick update!


I treated myself to a Morgan CarbTune Pro ... and I will have to say that I wish I had brought one before!! Much superior to my electronic one (TwinMax) which only does two pots at a time. Seeing how all four were behaving simultaneously is much easier.


One thing I did note is that the CarbTune supplies very small bore plastic tube that you use as a damper in the rubber hose (located at the manifold end). I tried the CarbTune with and without the dampers and it makes a very big difference to the stability of the reading. In hindsight, I should have done that in times past when using the TwinMax, I am sure it would improve have improved the accuracy when making adjustment. Kicking myself really as the concept is not new to me, having worked in instrumentation for the past 30 odd yrs and at times in automotive engine testing! Doh!  :\


I will next time make a comparative test between the two instruments as I will be able to use the same damped tubing arrangement.


Mike,


I checked the pilot screws, all at 4 & 1/4 turns out. I have now set them 4 turns out.


I set the TPS sensor to read 0.7v, which is mid-range of the stated 0.65 to 0.75v DC in the Haynes manual.


It does seems to sound a bit sharper and responds nicely when I blip the throttle. Test run tomorrow so I will update after that.

Bw

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #9 on: 27 March 2021, 04:33:38 pm »
Promising. :)

I've never used a voltmeter to set the TPS.  Just tweaked it until the tacho needle bounced between 5 - 10k.  :D

Timbo

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #10 on: 28 March 2021, 06:56:45 pm »
A quick 50mile run out this afternoon for a test.


A definite improvement in throttle response, it picks up nicely from low revs even when in one gear too high. It started more easily too. It just feels that bit sharper/crisper.


A finger in the end-pipe (which I had cleaned) did not seem so sooty as before.


More miles will tell, I will rack up perhaps a thousand more then inspect the plugs and by then the end-pipe will be more evidential. I may even whip the EXUP out again to see what effect there has been there.


I'll keep the post updated.


My second Gen 1 and 14yrs of riding one .... they are a fantastic machine and I still grin every time after a ride out, although my Tiger Sport is comfy (front and rear suspenders upgraded Maxton/Nitron) and I love the triple engine it is just not as surgical in the twisties. The Fazer just goes where I think I want it to be ...  I feel a another Nitron shock coming on too. I wiash I could find a mint, fresh out of the box one to re-live the journey all over again!


Bw

kralik

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Re: Another Carb question!
« Reply #11 on: 30 March 2021, 07:59:02 am »
Hi both,
thanks for the topic, very good reading full of useful information.
I just want to add, I have fitted the full monty kit this winter, have been out on the bike few times, it runs great.I took the baffle out of my Akra end can, and it runs even better then before. I pulled the throttle out on 4th!! gear and I have been soooo surprised how it ran! Yes, I have 15 tooth front sprocket, but I have not experienced such power on 4th gear before!
I love this upgrade!
well, I had not a chance to check exup valve or spark plugs yet, but it runs very well.Btw, I have connected 2 and 2 intake manifolds together based on the Pat`s page. One of the reason was that I had not Carbtune for 4 cylinders yet, just 2 cylinder version (as I own gen1 Tuono).

So, good luck with yours too.