Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Grahamm on 23 July 2018, 12:42:08 pm
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Yesterday I was in Devon, having a nice surfing and biking break.
I'd been out for a great ride down the A39, then back up the B3254, when I tried to start an overtake and the bike just wasn't giving me any power :(
I backed off and the engine was still running but when I opened the throttle, it just wouldn't pull.
I stopped, switched off and back on again and when I tried to start it, there was a rattling or clattering sound, so I immediately switched off again and called the RAC.
I had major hassles getting back to the campsite and then getting the bike back to Portsmouth, and then found that Vernon's Motorcycles is closing down in September and isn't taking any more work and Downeys and Bike Moto aren't open until Tuesday :(
The guy I spoke to at Vernons said (just a guess) that maybe a valve had dropped, but also said that it if it was something more serious, might actually be cheaper to simply buy a replacement engine, rather than pay for the workshop time to strip the current engine and rebuild it!
Still, at least Kudos to the other two bikers who pulled over when they saw me broken down, thanks to them, whoever they are :thumbup
One other thing, I'd checked the oil a few weeks ago (it was around the top of the scale) and there wasn't any dripping out in my shed or when the bike was standing, but when I checked it after the engine had cooled off a bit, it was right down the bottom of the scale. It was on a bit of a slope and canted over, but I don't think that should have made that much of a difference to the level.
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I'd checked the oil a few weeks ago (it was around the top of the scale) and there wasn't any dripping out in my shed or when the bike was standing, but when I checked it after the engine had cooled off a bit, it was right down the bottom of the scale. It was on a bit of a slope and canted over, but I don't think that should have made that much of a difference to the level.
It defiantly would make a difference through the sight glass leaned over so that is what you are seeing there
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I'd checked the oil a few weeks ago (it was around the top of the scale) and there wasn't any dripping out in my shed or when the bike was standing, but when I checked it after the engine had cooled off a bit, it was right down the bottom of the scale. It was on a bit of a slope and canted over, but I don't think that should have made that much of a difference to the level.
It defiantly would make a difference through the sight glass leaned over so that is what you are seeing there
The FZ6 has a dipstick, not a sight glass.
I've just checked again where it's standing in my shed and although it's not been run since yesterday (normally I'd run it for a few minutes to circulate the oil and then leave it for 5-10 minutes to let it settle), there's only about 3/8" at the bottom of the dipstick, so lot of oil has gone somewhere :(
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I'd take the plugs out and check for impact damage. Then drain the oil and check for metal. Also try turning the engine over by hand and feel for anything unusual. You could also take the valve cover off and look at the valves
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The guy I spoke to at Vernons said (just a guess) that maybe a valve had dropped, but also said that it if it was something more serious, might actually be cheaper to simply buy a replacement engine, rather than pay for the workshop time to strip the current engine and rebuild it!
Describing engine noises etc is a bit of a minefield/guesswork. The mechanic may be spot on but he also might be a mile off. The only way to tell is to have it looked at.
Sometimes it is easier/cheaper to buy a replacement engine but you never know how good that engine is going to be until you fit it. Could turn out to be no good either so have a good think before you go down that route.
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Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm going to get it looked at professionally, because inspecting valves etc is outside my experience and comfort zone, so I don't want to make it worse :-/
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Well the consensus from the people I've spoken to is that probably a new engine is going to be the best option, because even if it's not too damaged, the cost of parts and labour is going to be excessive :(
I've tried one of the "contact lots of breakers" sites and got an offer of one that's done 17k miles for £660 including deilvery and another that's done just under 9k for £880.
Of course it's then going to cost about £300 to get it fitted...
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I know you said your not confident in the mechanical side of things but if your willing to bin the engine anyway then surely it can't hurt to take a a stab at fixing it? Or at least finding the problem.
There's hundreds on YouTube videos that will help, as well as free workshop manuals on here and obviously the knowledgeable foccers that can answer questions.
Worse case scenario you fuck it up and have to buy a new engine anyway?
Also in the process you'd learn how to remove an engine from the bike (which to be honest is actually really simple) so you could save a few quid and fit the new one yourself?
Just a thought :-)
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I know you said your not confident in the mechanical side of things but if your willing to bin the engine anyway then surely it can't hurt to take a a stab at fixing it? Or at least finding the problem.
Lol! You're absolutely right and that just occurred to me too, I literally just came online to to post about that :D
:thumbup
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Would be interesting to find out what it was and what caused it, that kind of thing is not normal is it :o on (semmi) modern bikes - how many mile has it done
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Would be interesting to find out what it was and what caused it, that kind of thing is not normal is it :o on (semmi) modern bikes - how many mile has it done
It's done about 65k, but it's probably partly my own fault.
When I got the 24k service done it cost me the best part of £1000 because, for some reason, the valves were tight instead of loose and (although I can't prove it) I'm sure the workshop charged me for the time it was sitting on the bench whilst they were contacting Yamaha and trying to figure out what went wrong. I just never went back there.
When it got up to around 48k I was planning on starting to look at doing my own maintenance and working up to things like checking valve clearances, but I've had a lot of stress and hassle over the past couple of years and that just got forgotten about :(
So it may be that it was something that could have been sorted if only...
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I see
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The plan is the workshop is going to pick it up this afternoon and have a quick listen/ look to see if it's fixable.
If not, I'll have to get a replacement from the breakers (£540 plus £120 to ship because it needs a pallet!) and then pay around £250-£300 for them to install it.
I've actually just been looking at it because I decided to clear some of the rust and crap off the header bolts and noticed that the thin metal around the top of the pipes (not the pipes themselves) has rusted through. I hope that's not going to be more expense... :(
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If not, I'll have to get a replacement from the breakers (£540 plus £120 to ship because it needs a pallet!) and then pay around £250-£300 for them to install it.
That's coming on a grand to fix, and it's a used engine.
How many miles are on your bike?
At a grand to fix, maybe you should consider buying something else.
Either that or just get something new on PCP :lol .
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If not, I'll have to get a replacement from the breakers (£540 plus £120 to ship because it needs a pallet!) and then pay around £250-£300 for them to install it.
That's coming on a grand to fix, and it's a used engine.
How many miles are on your bike?
The bike has done 65k, but I've just put on new chain and sprockets, air filter, brake pads and had new headset bearings installed.
Frankly, had I known the engine would break, I'd have thought about getting a replacement, but now I've done all that work, I'll stick with it.
The workshop has picked up the bike today and they're going to have a look and see if it's fixable.
If not, I'll get the new engine sent down tomorrow and then I can practice working on the old one.
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Have you missed a gear and over revved it recently?
Sounds like the van chain might have jumped a tooth or two.
The tdm's could withstand three teeth before doing any damage but not sure about Fazers.
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Have you missed a gear and over revved it recently?
Not that I'm aware of.
I think, shortly before this happened (not sure exactly how long) there was a mometary "skip" in the engine note, but it seemed to still be running ok until the events in the OP took place.
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It does sound similar to a cam chain jumping one or two teeth.
If the tensioner was weak it could happen.
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I know the bike has gone to the workshop but I was wondering if any Foccers local to you could help out with an engine change etc. Some of us would help out for cups of tea and bacon sarnies in return...
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Well, I've heard back from the workshop and apparently my big end (oo-err missus) has gone on number 4 cylinder.
This is pretty terminal and, although it is fixable, it's more financially viable to replace an engine that had done 65,000 miles with one that has done 17,000 miles.
About the only good news was that it wasn't my fault, the mechanic said "it's unusual, but certainly not unheard of". I hadn't been thrashing it to the redline or running it without oil in, so there was no way that it could have been predicted short of a complete strip-down and examination.
Oh well, at least I'll have the old engine to practice doing some of the more intricate maintenance work on before I do it on the one in the bike now... :shrug:
PS Oh, and it turns out that when you buy a "complete engine" from a breakers, apparently that *doesn't* include the alternator and the starter motor. Good job those are still ok...!
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Oh yes, good job you found that out before complaining about the engine having bits missing. This is where the difference lies between buying a complete engine from a breaker and one from a guy breaking his bike - The breaker will always remove the alternator and starter.
Shame about the big end but these things do happen. If you get the workshop to fit the engine don't assume they will service it without you saying so. Don't forget to tell them you want the old engine too.
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The breaker will always remove the alternator and starter.
I know that now, glad I asked!
Don't forget to tell them you want the old engine too.
Yes, I've asked for the old engine back. The valve clearances will need checking in 7000 miles or so, that gives me time to practice taking the lid off!
I'm thinking about regularly taking the exhaust bolts off and put a bit of coppaslip on them so they don't end up a rusted mess that breaks and needs drilling out...
PS thanks for the suggestion about getting a local Foccer to help fit it, but for something like this I'd prefer a guarantee from a workshop :)
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I'm thinking about regularly taking the exhaust bolts off and put a bit of coppaslip on them so they don't end up a rusted mess that breaks and needs drilling out...
I think that each and every one of us that have removed an exhaust downpipe have had the same idea. The trouble is that I don't know anyone that has kept it up :lol
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I'm thinking about regularly taking the exhaust bolts off and put a bit of coppaslip on them so they don't end up a rusted mess that breaks and needs drilling out...
I think that each and every one of us that have removed an exhaust downpipe have had the same idea. The trouble is that I don't know anyone that has kept it up :lol
The best thing is to start with the plus gas - or your preferred lube, weeks before you attempt to remove them for the first time. I used something called Kroil used for cleaning and lubing guns. I squirted it right where it needed to be with a syringe.I dont think they were ever put on with anything in the factory so once we do it with copper grease it should last years --- shouldn't it ?
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Regarding the exhaust stud nuts. When you get the nuts off, and replace any studs if necessary, use stainless nuts rather than the oe ones, using copperslip. These will be a tad thinner leaving an amount of thread exposed. Fit stainless domed nuts on the exposed thread, using copperslip again, to "seal off" the stud. If you cracked these one at a time once a year and re- copperslipped, you shouldn't have any problems.
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Is that the engine with the Powercommander on it?
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Is that the engine with the Powercommander on it?
Yes, but I only use it with the basic map that smooths out the power curve.
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Did it prove to be reliable in operation, any problems with it. Seriously thinking of going down that route
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Did it prove to be reliable in operation, any problems with it. Seriously thinking of going down that route
Yes, it's been reliable, I've not had any problems with it.
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Ok thanks
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The saga continues... :(
I spoke to the workshop yesterday afternoon (Wednesday) and they told me that the downpipes (from the engine into the exhaust) were too rusted to be reusable, so I needed replacements.
We tried a couple of options without luck, so I phoned up the breakers where I got the engine from and they said they'd be £125 plus £12 delivery. I bitched about the engine being delivered late and got the price down to £80.
And, yes, they're the pipes that originally came off the engine in the first place...
They promised next day delivery, so I just have to hope they get there early enough tomorrow to fit them so I can pick it up and use it in the evening...
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Huzzah! I have my bike back again :thumbup
Ok, with the new engine and downpipes, plus shipping and fitting, it's cost me almost £1200 :eek but it's amazing what you get used to, because it now feels completely different.
The new engine runs sweetly, the throttle is less choppy, the clutch smoother and whilst it was great to ride before, it now feels fabulous :)
About the only niggle is that I keep the front end of the foot gearshift set low, but the workshop put it back at a much higher level, meaning I had to literally lift my foot off the peg in order to change up!
But a couple of minutes with a spanner fixed that, now I'm going to take it out tomorrow for a proper check ride... :angel
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Ouch, that cost a bit but at least you're back on the road and if it goes better than the old engine that can't be a bad thing.
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Well I went out for a ride earlier today and the bike is very sweet to ride.
I'm glad I did, because the handling and responses are not quite what I'm used to.
It wasn't dangerous, but there were a couple of "ok, that wasn't what I expected to happen" moments and I'd prefer finding them out now, rather than in a couple of days when I'm loaded up with luggage and on my way to Devon!
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Huzzah! I have my bike back again :thumbup
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That was a speedy turnaround! :eek The garage that did the engine swap obviously knew their stuff !! Plus the fact the bike now rides much more silky smooth, it's a 'born again' bike! Should have dropped a more potent Yamaha engine in there, while you had the opportunity, perhaps something more SuperSport inspired. :b
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Could be miles off the mark here but wouldn't one of the r1 engines go in?
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Could be miles off the mark here but wouldn't one of the r1 engines go in?
Technically with enough effort and faffing you could fit any engine you liked into it but I would imagine it's a lot more hassle than its worth. It's cost 1200 quid to fit it's original engine back in so I can only imagine the cost of modification, replacement parts etc needed to fit a different engine.
It's would almost definitely be more cost efficient to just buy a faster bike..... if that's what the end goal was
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If you want a bike that goes like an R1 just buy an R1.
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I'm sure one of these could be squeezed in :-)
http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/rolls-3.jpg (http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/rolls-3.jpg)
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I'm sure one of these could be squeezed in :-)
[url]http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/rolls-3.jpg[/url] ([url]http://spitfiresite.com/uploaded_images/rolls-3.jpg[/url])
I think it would take a magician to get that to fit, Say Merlin maybe. :lol
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Thanks for the suggestions, but I think I'll stick with the standard de-tuned R6 unit they put into it!
Anyway, I had a good holiday and finished the ride that got cut short last time which was a lot of fun :)
I'm going to take it back to the workshop for them to give a (free) checkover as I think one of the pipes is slightly loose, when I give it throttle at low speed, it sounds like it's got a slight leak, but everything else feels fine :thumbup