Can you use E10 - web-based checker:

[b1k3rdude]

The Government has released a way to check if your motorbike can use E10 fuel.

- https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/

As a very rough guide, anything pre-1990 or so could be in trouble. The problems you will get if you use E10 in a non-compatible machine is poor running and potentially deterioration of the engine performance over time. The actual negatives are not clearly expressed by Government statements, and it’s hard to get definitive information.

[BBROWN1664]

The biggest issue for (more) modern bikes with the Ethanol is when you have plastic petrol tanks. It makes them blister.

Other than that, the more ethanol, the lower the MPG.

[b1k3rdude]

Hmm, so I wonder how this will effect all the rubber/plastic parts in both of my fuel injected bikes (2009 GSF1250 & 2007 FZ1) the link in the OP says they are both fine with E10. I might have to ping Yamaha and Suzuki UK.

[b1k3rdude]

So spoke to Yamaha techbical and they confirmed that my 2007 FZ1 is compatible with E10 petrol.

[agricola]

The environemtal impact of producing ethanol is reported to be damaging due to the production mehtods. I'll continue to search out and use ethanol free or the lowest ethanol content available for my Fazer

[acid drop]

So spoke to Yamaha techbical and they confirmed that my 2007 FZ1 is compatible with E10 petrol.

   My 2007 Yammy MT-03 is compatible with E10 and My 2017 MT-09 is obviously compatible

[BBROWN1664]

It says that if your vehicle is unsuitable for E10, E5 should still be available in SUPER grade. Does that mean it's going to be a choice between E10 or expensive but now with added E5?.

A few of my local places have actually stopped selling super unleaded now

[robbo]

The way I understood it was, that the current E5 95 octane would continue to be sold, but at Super grade prices. The E10 would replace 95 octane and priced accordingly. The Super grade (97/99) octane, depending on where you buy it, would then disappear.
I’m pretty certain Red Ceri has got an E10/FZS1000 horror story, despite what is claimed by Yamaha regarding E10 suitability.

[Gnasher]

Manufacturers guarantee most of their engines since mid to late 70's in standard spec to run on all fuels from 85 - 99 ron, some higher performance engines nothing below 95ish.   They even all run on 102 probably run 150 (avgas) if you want to pay for it might blow a thing or two who knows.  Many engines from the mid 70's could run on unleaded, all pretty much by the mid 80's.  E10 has been used in some Far Eastern counties since mid 20's ish and replaced their standard 90 ron.  Most of Europe use 95 (regular) 98 (premium) and BP/Shell with their 99  Ultimate/ V power and many other world areas, the US it can be as low as mid 80's ron. 

Where a bike is sold in counties with fuel below 91 ron the engine is modified and the power is lower, or it's just not sold there.  Once you start tuning them and running them on E10, 15, 20 etc you run the risk of them being damaged, the more tuned the higher the risk. 

The same hype happen when 5 star and then 4 start leaded fuels went, yes additives or valve seats needed modifying.  At some point in the not too distant future (5 - 10 yrs ish) there won't be petrol/gasoline, diesel etc, sold in the anything like the quantities we see today.  It will be a mixture of hydrogen, Ethanol, Propane, Biodiesel, Natural Gas and electricity or whatever else they discover/develop. 

Fuel as we know it beyond that, I think will sold as specialist and carry a high premium.               

[b1k3rdude]

I’m pretty certain Red Ceri has got an E10/FZS1000 horror story, despite what is claimed by Yamaha regarding E10 suitability.

Got a link.

[robbo]

I’m pretty certain Red Ceri has got an E10/FZS1000 horror story, despite what is claimed by Yamaha regarding E10 suitability.

Got a link.

No, sorry. I seem to remember him telling me about it on one of our LOFO meets. I know he doesn’t post too often, but I’ll try and get in touch with him.

[Gnasher]

I don't see it that way. The production and infrastructure for those alternatives you mention are not in place in the volumes reqd to replace petrol/diesel, and no-one wants to pay for them. Some of those alternatives mean we  will need to rely on other nations to supply and transport to us, meaning they will have us over a barrel. The world is unstable, and becoming more so as resources diminish and alternatives need to be sought. This is why the Chinese, Russians and others are expanding there spheres of influence into nations with yet untapped resources.

As for us being reliant on imports in the future, we've been "over the barrel" as you put it since the decline of coal/steam and it's growing see here https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/ukenergyhowmuchwhattypeandwherefrom/2016-08-15

Post 2030 the sale of petrol/diesel vehicles is banned, that includes trucks and vans anything with a combustion engine, hybrids by 2035 in the UK. Most of Europe by 2040 and all by 2050 this could be reduced still further, discussions are ongoing.   Most of the world is doing much the same although from 2035 upto 2050 although that date is looking more and more like being reduced.   

Manufactures are going hell for leather to develop the before mentioned fuel engines/power plants.  All of them are currently available to varying levels around the world including the UK.  Some more than others and for sometime in the case of biodiesel, Propane (LPG) and electric.  Yes there will still be current petrol and diesel engines post 2030 but they will reduce year on year.   Their sales are already declining significantly and will continue to do so, all the evidence is out there if you wish to look.  The major oil companies are rapidly investing in these alternative fuels, most major investment houses (pensions etc) are either drastically reducing or no longer investing in fossil fuel or vehicle manufacturers who aren't developing alternative fuel engines.  The race is on and unlike most other change, unleaded fuel, catalyst etc this change is being driven by money markets and legislation at the same time i.e. needs must. Bit like Covid vaccines and their unheard development speed, oh the race is most definitely on           

Who knows how long it will take to remove all daily use petrol/diesel engines from the roads, my guess is not that long estimates put somewhere between 5 - 15 yrs.  Yes there will still be weekend/holiday use of them but like bikes of the previous years what we are riding today will be classic, some already are! There fuel will carry a premium, eventually they'll have to be converted to run on other fuel or forced off the road.   

This is coming and there's absolutely no choice or way of stopping it.  Like the demise of horse/steam power, petrol/diesel as we know it will go the same way and at speed.     

           

[Red Ceri]

Few years ago whilst on a tour to Normandy I accidentally filled up with fuel with the highest Ethonol content available at the time


Initially everything was ok but was on a motorway, as soon as I got of the motorway and slowed to town speeds fuel was losing out of my overflows.


Managed to get to my B&B without bursting into flames and had to pull off the carbs , the o-rings on the  float needle assemblies were definitely deteriorated and allowing fuel past. Left them overnight to dry out and reassembled the carbs with a little PTFE tape to help the o-rings. Had no issues the rest of the trip but changed the o-rings once I got home

[b1k3rdude]

Few years ago whilst on a tour to Normandy I accidentally filled up with fuel with the highest Ethonol content available at the time

Morning, do you have more details on 'what' fuel it was exactly.

[Red Ceri]

Few years ago whilst on a tour to Normandy I accidentally filled up with fuel with the highest Ethonol content available at the time

Morning, do you have more details on 'what' fuel it was exactly.

This was over 5 years ago, can't remember what I had for dinner yesterday let alone the minute details from 5 years ago

[b1k3rdude]

I have had to clean up this thread again, so let me be crystal clear -

• No politics.
• No personal attacks, however vague.
• Stay on topic.
• Moderator decisions are final and are not open to discussion.

[darrsi]

Just spotted that ESSO Supreme 99 RON fuel has ZERO ethanol in it, but they have to display an E5 sticker on the pump by law as it represents "up to 5% ethanol".

[midden]

A couple of years ago in Germany a truck driver advised me not to use E10  stating it messes up the carb diaphragm

[b1k3rdude]

A couple of years ago in Germany a truck driver advised me not to use E10  stating it messes up the carb diaphragm

Yeah but again anecdotal, what we need is hard data/evidence to this 'advice'

Cleaned up thread to remove all yamfazfan posts that had been edited by him to replace all the text with a ' . '

[Gnasher]

A couple of years ago in Germany a truck driver advised me not to use E10  stating it messes up the carb diaphragm

More scaremongering  a carb diaphram doesn't directly come into contact with fuel and if true the car/bike was more than likely non compatible. 

If it was a bad as certain people would have you believe, it would be out there by now.   Cars/bikes would be stopping in the countries around the world where it's been in use for some time (France & Belgium in Europe) some upto 10 years in places.  I've seen no such reports has anyone else?  The real issue is hoses/seals and some lower spec alloy in the fuel system, that aren't resistant to higher levels of ethanol.  They start to degrade/leak rather than engine problems, non compatible cars/bike will still run on E10, albeit at the expense of the fuel system components if it's left in there.   

Obviously those cars/bikes which can't use E10 will have to use E5 or 98ron which will still be on sale. What is interesting is apparently once a garage has switched to E10 by 1 Sept 21, they can't sell E5 or so I've just read here 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/104126/e10-petrol-explained-uk-prices-checker-tool-and-it-ok-your-car 

Last sub paragraph in E10 petrol v E5 petrol paragraph, this is I believe is due to when E5 is offered alongside E10, most opt for E5.   If this ends up being the case, which I'd say is very likely, there will be E5 or super garages selling diesel and E5 I guess.  I will be a bit like hunting out LPG and electric charge points    

The saving grace is bikes appear to be well ahead of the game, in that most Jap manufactures bikes post early 2000s being compatible and some like Yamaha anything post 1990! 

This is a good read and mostly bike related
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2020/march/what-is-e10-fuel-and-is-it-safe   

They other big question is fuel degradation, in this case the hygroscopic effect extra ethanol has.  I would point out the fuel has to be open to the atmosphere to allow this to happen, same applies to brake fluid although at different rates.  We've all seen the warnings don't use brake fluid from an opened can/bottle, well yes to a point, if the can/bottle is correctly sealed it can't absorb water.  I test all my fluid everytime I use it new and open and it's fine for years, trick is open the can/bottle take out what you need and reseal it straight away.   Nice little earner for the brake fluid manufacturers   

Presumably the same will apply to E10, but the question is how long, again it's been used in other countries for years not seen anything ringing alarm bells for bike stored over winter as yet.               

Lastly drop in performance again unless your bike is either highly tuned or running very high compression as standard (some are) or you've done serious engine work.  Any loss of power will be minimal and not noticeable in real world riding. 

I guess we'll find out soon enough, with a little over a week to go before E10 must be sold on the forecourt.   I won't be bracing myself for a glut of non running bikes turning up all of a sudden.    

[BBROWN1664]

based on the 10% blend vs the 5% blend, you would loose about 2% of the overall power from the engine based on the calorific value of the fuel. 99.99999% of people would never even notice that.

[robbo]

E10 was introduced in France quite a few years ago, and I had reservations regarding a recent trip to France and Spain, regarding E5 availability.I only came across one petrol station that offered only E10, with the majority offering E5 98 octane alongside E10, and some had both E5 95 and 98 along with E10. Hopefully the UK will follow suit regarding long term E5 availability.

[StreetFzr]

Not in Teesside, north wales, Scotland, Dorset or north west England I believe, they will have ethanol in their super but only up to 5%

[robbo]

Not in Teesside, north wales, Scotland, Dorset or north west England I believe, they will have ethanol in their super but only up to 5%

That info was only regarding Esso Synergy Supreme+ which is totally ethanol free other than Devon,Cornwall,Teeside, NW England and Scotland where it will contain 5%, which will no doubt be the standard for all petrol stations super grade other than Esso. I make Esso stations my first choice in my usual riding area Surrey,Kent,Hampshire,Essex etc as know I'll be getting the good stuff.

[agricola]

I'll throw this into the debate. I've had the Fazer now for 8 years, I had a PC5 fitted and set up on a dyno to maximise performance, Scorpion system and decat link pipe. I still found (a common problem I believe) that when closing the throttle from wide open, then opening it up again, the response time was not immediate, possibly more noticeable to me as I do several trackdays a year on the Fazer. However, the last time I filled up, I sought out and used BP Ultimate. Although I have not changed anything else on the bike, the problem has 95% disappeared, and now picks up smoothly from closed.