To reply to above posts I agree it is my responsibility to ensure the bike is maintained in a road worthy condition. But one would expect when it is serviced by an authourised Yamaha dealer it would have had the bolts set to the correct torque and not be backing off like this. Yes I will keep a better eye on things now that I am aware that they can become an issue. I have on order a complete set of caliper bolts and will add a touch of loctite blue when fitting. I may go one step further and drill the heads and pair wire them in as extra security.Having been at sea for 43+years as a marine engineer and the last load of years sailing an office desk so to speak one has rather forgotten engineering basics. Now I have retired I am sure I will soon catch up.
Quote.... I may go one step further and drill the heads and pair wire them in as extra security.......By the way I wouldn't use loctite, I do the opposite I stick a tiny smear of copper ease as things get hot down there and I wanna know I'll be able to pop my calliper off again...
.... I may go one step further and drill the heads and pair wire them in as extra security....
The reason most people do it this way is because it is simple and it works.
QuoteThe reason most people do it this way is because it is simple and it works.Not so sure of that. Also with extreme heat cycles, water, dirt, salt etc, well that's the reason for the copper ease. Brake screws have a habit of seizing up. And as they are usually screws not bolts, you don't want damage those threads (usually a steel screw into soft aluminium)
Always amazes me how many right ways there are to a job on an internet forum
The primary purpose of the excercise is ensuring that it does not loosen unintentionally.
When you use clean, grease free bolts in clean, grease free mountings with a decent dab of loctite and tighten to the correct torque, then the loctite will do its job and prevent vibration and heat cycles from lossening the bolt, while also provideing an anerobic seal which prevents the ingress of air, water, salt and other oxidisers, so reduceing corrosion. And the fact that you have used the correct torque means the bolt will not be stretched or damaged which in turn means it will come lose when the appropriate lossening torque is applied.
Done your way, you increase the risks of seizing by encouraging corrosion by introducing copper, and you increase the risks of unintended loosening by introducing grease, so failing both objectives.
Nothing useful to add, but glad after 48 years I finally know difference between a screw (a threaded fastener you measure torque from when tightening its head) and a bolt (a threaded fastener that you measure torque from when tightening a nut), so thanks.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with drilling the head of a bolt ...
Aye well, or it's amazing how complicated the simplest of tasks can become.
QuoteThe primary purpose of the excercise is ensuring that it does not loosen unintentionally.That is achieved by applying the correct torque to the mounting screw.
"There is now a danger (I think) that the loosening torque will considerably exceed the tightening torque and result in possible damage to the thread".
Of course not, if you do it right. However, you have not really shown any evidence that you are the sort of person likely to do it right. The mere fact that you are suggesting it as a possible solution to you not checking your own bike after someone else works on it re-inforces that opinion. I will be happy to apologise if I have mis-judged you, but I do suggest you take another stroll down pit lane to see which bolts are wired and which are not. In my experience, the bolts that would put others at risk if they failed (oil, coolent etc) are the ones that are wired. The ones that would just kill you are your own problem. I have certainly never seen brake bolts being wired as it would take far to long to change the pads.
but in your own words, "but then again copper ease can render torque settings pointless".
If you read up on loctite you will see it is true that the loosening torque exceeds tighening torque, but not to the point where is a serious concern. Certainly, in my opinion, it is far less of a concern then using guesstimated torque on greased up bolts holding safety equipement in place. There are exceptions of course, but they tend to concern tightening torques that deliberatly strain the bolts and so do not apply in normal motorbike DIY maintenance.
And no, they do not suggest copper grease!
Of course not, if you do it right. However, you have not really shown any evidence that you are the sort of person likely to do it right.
In a sense, fair play in that you've come back and admitted you were wrong, but if VNA hadn't argued with you, that wouldn't have happened, would it?
Be careful out there kids, don't believe what you read on the Internet, there's a lot of people out there don't know what they're talking about...
Quote from: lew600fazer on 24 July 2014, 03:51:44 pmThere is absolutely nothing wrong with drilling the head of a bolt ...Of course not, if you do it right. However, you have not really shown any evidence that you are the sort of person likely to do it right. The mere fact that you are suggesting it as a possible solution to you not checking your own bike after someone else works on it re-inforces that opinion. I will be happy to apologise if I have mis-judged you, but I do suggest you take another stroll down pit lane to see which bolts are wired and which are not. In my experience, the bolts that would put others at risk if they failed (oil, coolent etc) are the ones that are wired. The ones that would just kill you are your own problem. I have certainly never seen brake bolts being wired as it would take far to long to change the pads. Ah you do not need to remove the bolts to change the pads, just knock the pins out and the pads slip out the back, or so Marriotts of Birkenhead informed me today Quote from: VNA on 24 July 2014, 06:36:56 pmAye well, or it's amazing how complicated the simplest of tasks can become. I could not agree more... I actually agree with most of what you have written but the bit that worries me is... Quote from: VNA on 24 July 2014, 06:36:56 pmQuoteThe primary purpose of the excercise is ensuring that it does not loosen unintentionally.That is achieved by applying the correct torque to the mounting screw. but in your own words, "but then again copper ease can render torque settings pointless".Your only real objection to using loctite seems to be that Quote"There is now a danger (I think) that the loosening torque will considerably exceed the tightening torque and result in possible damage to the thread". If you read up on loctite you will see it is true that the loosening torque exceeds tighening torque, but not to the point where is a serious concern. Certainly, in my opinion, it is far less of a concern then using guesstimated torque on greased up bolts holding safety equipement in place. There are exceptions of course, but they tend to concern tightening torques that deliberatly strain the bolts and so do not apply in normal motorbike DIY maintenance. Finally, you asked if Yamaha recommeded the use of loctite on these bolts, which seemed like a reasonable question. And even though I knew that they would, I checked anyway so I could quote it to you and according to the service manual I have (2001 5LV1-AE1 section 4-16) , I am quite embarressed to have to admit that they do not. 40Nm but no mention of loctite. I would have put money on it, but there we go. And no, they do not suggest copper grease!
I have spoken to martin regarding the calliper bolts and he’s confirmed that the callipers where not removed whilst changing the pads, the pads pull out from the rear of the calliper once the pin is removed.
QuoteI have spoken to martin regarding the calliper bolts and he’s confirmed that the callipers where not removed whilst changing the pads, the pads pull out from the rear of the calliper once the pin is removed.Shocking really. You pay em good money and they do a shoddy job. If the pads need changed then the calliper and it's pistons need cleaned. Gradually the pistons get caked in crud and stop moving, they can also corrode, crud and corrosion can lead to lead to piston seal failure. Experts? Shoddy shoddy workmanship.Perhaps what the dealer is doing is the minimum, knowing that you'll eventually come back in needing a full calliper strip and rebuild. So by doing the minimum now they can rip you off for a fortune later.These guys are charging you top dollar for a crap job.Or perhaps they are just bull shitting you, it's a good excuse for having forgotten to nip up the mounting screws - 'oh actually we never took em off'Either way, I wouldn't be back there Lew.