HID conversion

[Middy2000]

Just stumbled across this on eBay.


Any thoughts?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-Fazer-600-FZS600-XENON-HID-Headlamp-Conversion-1998-2004-H1R-/172247394342?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

[Gnasher]

It's been done years ago if you search for HID.

It's really old tech now LEDs is the way to go, although HID is cheaper.  Also be aware recent MOT changes mean HID or LEDs bulbs won't pass or should be failed as they're not compatible with OE halogen reflector see here  https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=26678.0  So you'll have to take them out at MOT.

If you do fit HID make sure they're the type that are made for a reflector look here https://www.hids4u.co.uk/H1-HIDS4U-Stealth-35W-Xenon-HID-Motorcycle-Conversion-Kit.html they also do H4.  Many HID kits don't have reflector bulbs and they'll dazzle on coming traffic.  Same applies to cheaper LEDs good ones allow for rotation of the chip holder so it matches a halogen bulb and the reflector again stopping dazzle.  You may well also need resistors.     

Or you're going to have to fit protector lens units or another complete lens unit, in which case the existing halogen unit hasn't been adapted i.e had HID/LED bulbs fitted.   

[7omly]

I've actually done both of the conversions you have both mentioned.  On my 1999 FZS600 I fitted the full monty kit. I made the mounting plates (rather than pay £215) and purchased projector Headlamps and the HID kit. I did it correctly using relays. The lights were phenomenal but the downside was when sitting in traffic at tickover your battery gets a hammering off the almost six amp draw from the twin 35w hid lamps. If I'd fitted the 55w lamps it would have been over 9 amps draw. The bikes voltmeter would read 13.4v at 60 mph and at tickover this would drop to 12.4v. Put the indicators on and it was down to 11.8v.
In a fit of madness got rid of my Fazer and bought a BMW R80rt (don't laugh,  someone has to ride them).
I missed the Fazer so much that I bought a 2001 FZS600 last October.
Oh, how missed the Fazer but then I rode at night.
I've made the conversion (again using my home made mounting plates) but this time I thought I'd try LED lamps.
I'll be honest,  they are not as bright as HID but they pull next to no current. With the lamps on at tickover the voltmeter drops from 13.8v to 13.7v. The lights are loads better than stock and good for 70 mph night driving.
I used reasonably priced lamps off eBay too (around £12 for two) because the likes of Philips and Osram want over £45 per LED lamp.

[Gnasher]

You wire them in wrong then mate, or you've got/had the wrong type/cheap ballast/bulbs.  I did this conversion about 10yrs ago, all the info was on and may still be on, the old site. With the correct ballasts there's no current or voltage drop, a good system uses less power than the standard bulbs.

Same for LED's. there's LEDs and there's LED's, quality units start at about £50ish up to £150 for a pair.  These are getting cheaper all the time as they are now used in most cars and bikes nowadays, that said OE fitted bulbs are still very expensive because they are quality items.   Some cars and bikes you can't change the bulbs, if they go it's the whole unit, but being quality they really do.   

[7omly]

2 x35 watt at 12 volts equals = 5.83 amps. They are less than the halogen bulbs draw but they still draw a fair amount.
The bikes battery is 12 amps with the alternator putting out 18 amps at 5,000 rpm.
At tickover during periods of high load you will always see some voltage drop.
At tickover during darkness waiting to turn right the electrical draw would be as follows,
Indicators 21w x2 + 3w = 45w (3.75 amps)
Tail 5 w x 2 = 10w (0.83 amps)
Brake lamps 2 x 21w = 42w (3.5 amps)
2 x 35w = 70w (5.83 amps)
Instrument panel lamps 3 x 2w = 6w (0.5 amps)
Ignition circuit including fuel pump at a guess around 10 amps (correct me if I'm wrong but it's protected by a 20 amp fuse)
A conservative estimate of 24.3 amps. I would guess that at tickover the alternator puts out around 10 amps, add to that the 12 amp battery and you're on the limits of what is available.
The system was wired in perfectly and worked without a problem for three years. The mate I sold it to had no problems with it either.

[Gnasher]

Standard bulbs are 55w with high beam 60w with the mod done and both running at the same time 2 X 55w is more than double twin 35w HIDs. I've never known or heard of issues with modded standard bulb setup not running and they draw 55w each plus high beam 60w all can be running at idle.  Quality ballast doesn't draw 35w and a lot less while they're running, hence they spark up, drop back and get brighter after a few seconds.  Mine and the 30 odd I fitted, have had no problems whatsoever running this way, running both or when lighting up the H4. 

If yours had the issues as you state they were either wrongly wired, poor quality units or there was something wrong with your battery/charging system.  In my experience issues with HID are on start up or at the point where the draw drops not while they're running ie idling in traffic.

Lighting issues at idle are mainly charging system related, oh and the battery isn't pulling anything like 12 amps, certainly not if it's in good condition.   

[darrsi]

As much as i'm enjoying reading all this info, is it official that none of it will pass an MOT, so all rather irrelevant now? 

[Gnasher]

As much as i'm enjoying reading all this info, is it official that none of it will pass an MOT, so all rather irrelevant now?

If you try and put a bike with HID/LED fitted to standard reflectors then yes.  Or as mentioned you could remove them at MOT, although you need to be aware you're taking a risk bit like a noisy end can.  Or you fit projector lenses and you'll be fine just make sure they and the HID system or LEDs you fit are quality units.  With recent improvements with LEDs bulbs, HIDs are obsolete in my opinion.       

[darrsi]

As much as i'm enjoying reading all this info, is it official that none of it will pass an MOT, so all rather irrelevant now?

If you try and put a bike with HID/LED fitted to standard reflectors then yes.  Or as mentioned you could remove them at MOT, although you need to be aware you're taking a risk bit like a noisy end can.  Or you fit projector lenses and you'll be fine just make sure they and the HID system or LEDs you fit are quality units.  With recent improvements with LEDs bulbs, HIDs are obsolete in my opinion.     

Any idea why they have suddenly been deemed as unfit to use?

[Gnasher]

Any idea why they have suddenly been deemed as unfit to use?

HID and cheaper retro fit LED's bulbs are mostly designed for projector lenses, some will (quality units) work fine in a reflector headlight more on that later.  Most won't as the arch globe, chip position, shape/length and how the light is made differ from a halogen filament and focal point of a reflector is matched to the filament position.  Which means you get a crap light pattern and/or dazzle on coming traffic or both.  The light produced by HID and now quality LED's is far superior can and will blind you, long enough to cause potential collisions.  Interestingly you see quite a few cars of late with halogen bulbs, where one or both low beam/s dazzling, this seems to have coincided with the likes of Halfords bulbs fitting service.  Fitting by poorly trained shop staff, who either fit the bulb upside down or not fully home, which moves the filament position and the focal point and you get the above.  Some cars you now have to remove the headlight unit and/or bodywork, jack up or get access from underneath and even removal of a front wheel to change a bulb.  Some try all manner of get arounds, which can end up with incorrectly fitted bulb as described above, due to inadequate access or incorrectly refitting of the above mentioned.  I've been asked to correct a fair few over the years!      

In brief the MOT used to look for beam pattern and height etc and there was/is points about self levelling and lens washing for car HID systems.  But as technology has moved on these we're no longer needed and they sort of got ignored.  But the issue above didn't go away i.e. dazzle and poor driving lighting due to cheap poor quality HID/LEDs, so now legislation has caught up a bit, effectively banning retro fit HID/LED's into reflector units not designed to run them.

Thing is, technology has moved on already You can now and have been able to get for some years HID bulbs that are compatible with reflectors, that said HID is really obsolete.  Quality LEDs now contain lighting chips which are pretty much identical in shape/size/position as halogen filaments and adjustable (rotation) so you can match the bulb to the reflector.  i.e. in some units the bulbs is fitted so that the light is produced to the left/right/up/down, rotation means you can match that. 

 

[darrsi]

I notice quite often when out on the bike how many vehicles have headlights that are obviously not aligned correctly. And they're normally the ones that have the brightest lights on them.
I'm all for brighter lights, for seeing where you are going, but when they're misaligned they are a proper fecking nuisance.

[Gnasher]

I notice quite often when out on the bike how many vehicles have headlights that are obviously not aligned correctly. And they're normally the ones that have the brightest lights on them.
I'm all for brighter lights, for seeing where you are going, but when they're misaligned they are a proper fecking nuisance.

As said often it's not that their misaligned just had the bulbs incorrectly fitted. 

[darrsi]

I notice quite often when out on the bike how many vehicles have headlights that are obviously not aligned correctly. And they're normally the ones that have the brightest lights on them.
I'm all for brighter lights, for seeing where you are going, but when they're misaligned they are a proper fecking nuisance.

As said often it's not that their misaligned just had the bulbs incorrectly fitted.

I used to always think it was because of European vehicles with their lights aiming the wrong way but what you're saying makes a lot of sense.
Some vehicles though are just downright wrong and all over the place.