Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: ben17484 on 30 March 2017, 09:33:43 am
-
This morning I got on my bike to come to work and it wouldn't start. I did my usual of turning the choke on (and checked that the bar moved on the carb, so the cable is definitely working), slight throttle and starter button, but it just sat and churned away but didn't start. Eventually the batter died so i had to put the bike away and get the train to work.
I haven't used the bike in anger since last Friday, but did go for a quick spin around the block yesterday and everything seemed fine.
Where would be a good place to start looking for the issue?
Cheers,
Ben
-
Once hooked up to a charged battery, I'd see if there's a spark available at all 4 leads.
However, if it was my bike, I wouldn't expect it to start... full choke is a reliable way to flood it unless the temperature's about -5ºC.
-
Ok, cheers. I'll try that on the charger.
I did wonder if I'd flooded it. Would you not use the choke at all in the spring/summer/autumn then? This is my first non fuel injected car/bike.
-
I use the choke all year round with no ill effect.(http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif)
As Fazerider said charge battery & try starting again,it maybe time for a new one do you know how old it is.
-
Ok, cheers. I'll try that on the charger.
I did wonder if I'd flooded it. Would you not use the choke at all in the spring/summer/autumn then? This is my first non fuel injected car/bike.
I need about one quarter choke if the temperature is around freezing, but otherwise none at all.
The slow jet runs on the rich side at the usual 2-turns-out setting. In fact, I leave mine at 1.75 turns and it's still ample... but bikes vary, yours may be different.
-
I've only had the bike a month so most of that time it has been fairly cold. Not tried starting without the choke yet but will do now the weather is a bit better.
No idea how old the battery is, but have read that even though it was turning over for quite a while (therefore I assumed the battery was fine) the batter may be at fault? If this is the case, presumably starting on a battery charger should resolve the issue and I can then replace the battery?
-
Often needs a bit of throttle to get started. Try about 1/4 choke and then press starter button and gently open throttle to about 1/2 way taking about 2 seconds get there.
That often works on many bikes with chokes.
If you're used to fuel injection you've probably been told not to touch throttle when starting the engine, that's not because the engine doesn't need it but the electronics are doing it for you without you knowing about it.
-
ben17484,charge the battery with a charger first, not with the battery charger connected.(http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif)
-
Ok, will do cheers. So the chargers aren't like the battery boost ones that you can get for cars that will allow you to start the bike/car with the charger in boost mode whilst attached to the battery terminals?
I've ordered the battery charger which should be through tomorrow.
So even though the bike was turning over for a long time, it could still be the batter that's the issue?
-
Another possibly stupid question - can I try and jump start the bike from my car to see if the battery is the issue?
-
A quick google suggests I can jump start a motorbike from my car (without the engine running on the car)
-
Yes you can but be careful connecting the large car jump lead clips to the small terminals on your bike.
It is not uncommon for the original battery to last this long if it is a black battery possibly a GS Yamaha Motor Company one this would more lightly be the original Yuasa/Lucas or branded other would be later replacement with a life of around 5-10yrs service.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-YUASA-YT12B-BS-MOTORBIKE-QUAD-JETSKI-BATTERY/130494954517?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40802%26meid%3D3334ef489381491cb5049e9490a8a59d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D300683821985 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-YUASA-YT12B-BS-MOTORBIKE-QUAD-JETSKI-BATTERY/130494954517?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40802%26meid%3D3334ef489381491cb5049e9490a8a59d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D300683821985)
-
I've still got issues with starting my bike as well after it's been sitting still overnight, or all day at work.
Tried everything so far, and i can't even blame the weather now either, but narrowed it down to be fuel related.
I syphoned out the fuel in the tank the other day, and drained the carbs, and there was no hint whatsoever of water in it.
But still, embarrassing as it is, i have to slosh the fuel about by rocking the bike side to side, then it will start and run perfectly.
If i try just starting it without moving it from the sidestand it simply will not have it?
Totally baffles me, but at least i know how to work around it now. :\
-
1/4-1/2 choke is all I ever needed on my FZS600 to start it and then maybe a tad more to keep it running on the coldest of mornings.
It sounds like you may have flooded it and then drained the battery.
Charge the battery or jump start the bike with a small amount of choke (or none to start with)
-
I've still got issues with starting my bike as well after it's been sitting still overnight, or all day at work.
Tried everything so far, and i can't even blame the weather now either, but narrowed it down to be fuel related.
I syphoned out the fuel in the tank the other day, and drained the carbs, and there was no hint whatsoever of water in it.
But still, embarrassing as it is, i have to slosh the fuel about by rocking the bike side to side, then it will start and run perfectly.
If i try just starting it without moving it from the sidestand it simply will not have it?
Totally baffles me, but at least i know how to work around it now. :\
Funny you should say that - the only time i've had any issue before was when starting up to come home from work one day on the side stand and it wouldn't start. I then sat on the bike and rocked it and it started ok. I would have had at least over a half a tank of petrol, so it shouldn't have needed the rocking. That's the only time I've had it happen though.
I wonder why that is.
-
I've still got issues with starting my bike as well after it's been sitting still overnight, or all day at work.
Tried everything so far, and i can't even blame the weather now either, but narrowed it down to be fuel related.
I syphoned out the fuel in the tank the other day, and drained the carbs, and there was no hint whatsoever of water in it.
But still, embarrassing as it is, i have to slosh the fuel about by rocking the bike side to side, then it will start and run perfectly.
If i try just starting it without moving it from the sidestand it simply will not have it?
Totally baffles me, but at least i know how to work around it now. :\
Funny you should say that - the only time i've had any issue before was when starting up to come home from work one day on the side stand and it wouldn't start. I then sat on the bike and rocked it and it started ok. I would have had at least over a half a tank of petrol, so it shouldn't have needed the rocking. That's the only time I've had it happen though.
I wonder why that is.
I really don't know but if you find out please don't hesitate to let me know. :lol
-
If the bike needs to be upright then this sounds like a problem with the tilt switch to me.
-
I've still got issues with starting my bike as well after it's been sitting still overnight, or all day at work.
Tried everything so far, and i can't even blame the weather now either, but narrowed it down to be fuel related.
I syphoned out the fuel in the tank the other day, and drained the carbs, and there was no hint whatsoever of water in it.
But still, embarrassing as it is, i have to slosh the fuel about by rocking the bike side to side, then it will start and run perfectly.
If i try just starting it without moving it from the sidestand it simply will not have it?
Totally baffles me, but at least i know how to work around it now. :\
Funny you should say that - the only time i've had any issue before was when starting up to come home from work one day on the side stand and it wouldn't start. I then sat on the bike and rocked it and it started ok. I would have had at least over a half a tank of petrol, so it shouldn't have needed the rocking. That's the only time I've had it happen though.
I wonder why that is.
I really don't know but if you find out please don't hesitate to let me know. :lol
will do - but I'll more than likely just keep rocking it like you do :)
-
If the bike needs to be upright then this sounds like a problem with the tilt switch to me.
I've only had it happen once (well, twice including today). I did try putting it on the center stand this morning just in case it was something to do with the side stand switch, but to no avail. Could have been flooded by that point though.
Do you know where the tilt switch is and how to test it?
-
If the bike needs to be upright then this sounds like a problem with the tilt switch to me.
Just had a look around the site and apparently the FZS600 doesn't have a tilt sensor.
-
Ah, that's my fault for not checking first. I wrongly assumed that they were Gen 1 thous. I didn't notice that it was posted in the FZS600 section. :wall
-
Ah, that's my fault for not checking first. I wrongly assumed that they were Gen 1 thous. I didn't notice that it was posted in the FZS600 section. :wall
No worries, i found a post where Fazerider was talking about it but then obviously found out they never had them.
I must say though it's a very annoying issue that has totally stumped me now.
-
maybe rocking it side to side causes the floats to move slightly and gets petrol flowing into the carb
-
maybe rocking it side to side causes the floats to move slightly and gets petrol flowing into the carb
Had major trouble starting it again tonight, it will start for a split second then just stop dead.
It did this a few times, then i had to do the rocking thing, in front of a crowd of visitors outside my work, and it started for a few seconds this time then cut out again.
Then after a few more attempts of plunging the forks using the front brake it started properly then ran perfectly all the way home, no stuttering or spluttering and it pulled hard in any gear, as if there was no problem at all?
It's driving me bonkers!
-
Does it happen when it's parked on the center stand?
-
Does it happen when it's parked on the center stand?
I tend not to put it on the centre stand because where i park it outside my work the ground is on a very slight uphill slope, so it can be a bit of an effort putting the bike back down.
I was wondering if the slope might have anything to do with things, but i've had the bike about 9 years and mainly parked in the same spot and this problem has been on and off only since last summer.
I can try it on the centre stand tomorrow though.
In the mornings i wheel it out of the garage, use the front brake to bounce the bike a couple of times and it starts better than when it's outside work for the day.
I thought the winter weather wasn't helping matters but today there were no excuses with that as it was nice and warm outside.
-
darrsi,just thinking could it be a electrical fault,connection or broken wire somewhere near the front end linked to the starting circuit,ignition switch if it starts after pumping the forks making the loom move connecting & disconnecting,a mare to trace but worth a look me thinks.
-
Darrsi is the fuel pump giving the dah dah dah then stops before you try to start?
-
darrsi,just thinking could it be a electrical fault,connection or broken wire somewhere near the front end linked to the starting circuit,ignition switch if it starts after pumping the forks making the loom move connecting & disconnecting,a mare to trace but worth a look me thinks.
I've considered that but i would've thought it would at least play up once or twice whilst on the journey home, or even cut out, but it's rock solid.once started.
-
Got home tonight, wheeled my bike to the back of my car (battery in the boot), got the jump leads out and nearly had everything connected up when I thought I'd give it one last try on its own to start without the jump leads connected. No choke, started straight away (not sure where the power came from as the battery was left clicking after I drained it this morning). Not sure whether trying to start it for quite a while on full choke this morning flooded it or there was a problem with starting it on the side stand (like darrrsi). Switched it off, ran and got my helmet, started up fine again and went on a fairly long ride. No problems at all.
I'll try starting tomorrow on the side stand but with no choke and see what happens.
Is there a quick way to 'un-flood' a bike once it's flooded?
-
Darrsi is the fuel pump giving the dah dah dah then stops before you try to start?
Yeah, the fuel pump is doing its job okay.
When i emptied the carbs the other day it went off like a rattlesnake when i turned the key.
-
darrsi,just thinking could it be a electrical fault,connection or broken wire somewhere near the front end linked to the starting circuit,ignition switch if it starts after pumping the forks making the loom move connecting & disconnecting,a mare to trace but worth a look me thinks.
I've considered that but i would've thought it would at least play up once or twice whilst on the journey home, or even cut out, but it's rock solid.once started.
An intermittent issue like this that's resolved via rocking/jiggleing does sound like something's sticking or something's loose.
I guess taking it to a garage may be futile as it might work all the time you're there?
-
darrsi,just thinking could it be a electrical fault,connection or broken wire somewhere near the front end linked to the starting circuit,ignition switch if it starts after pumping the forks making the loom move connecting & disconnecting,a mare to trace but worth a look me thinks.
I've considered that but i would've thought it would at least play up once or twice whilst on the journey home, or even cut out, but it's rock solid.once started.
An intermittent issue like this that's resolved via rocking/jiggleing does sound like something's sticking or something's loose.
I guess taking it to a garage may be futile as it might work all the time you're there?
-
ben17484, You defo flooded it this morning if you kept cranking it on full choke,if it don't start with choke on with first push of starter turn choke off before attempting to start again. The battery has gathered enough energy by sitting all day to start but you will need to go on a long run to recharge or put it on a charger suitable for bike batteries.Glad you got it sorted. (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif)
-
darrsi,if the fault is with the starting circuit then this would be redundant when once riding.
-
I have to use full choke when engine is cold all year round, unless it's a really hot day, it always sputters in to life then once it smooths out and the revs rise (about 20 seconds) I can turn the choke off and runs sweet as after that.
How clean are your carbs? Just a thought.
-
ben17484, You defo flooded it this morning if you kept cranking it on full choke,if it don't start with choke on with first push of starter turn choke off before attempting to start again. The battery has gathered enough energy by sitting all day to start but you will need to go on a long run to recharge or put it on a charger suitable for bike batteries.Glad you got it sorted. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])
Yeah, I think you're def right! I went for a 20 mile or so run last night to put some charge back in the battery. I was just relieved and happy it started ok!
Started on the button this morning with no choke at all.
-
I have to use full choke when engine is cold all year round, unless it's a really hot day, it always sputters in to life then once it smooths out and the revs rise (about 20 seconds) I can turn the choke off and runs sweet as after that.
How clean are your carbs? Just a thought.
Not sure about the carbs. I've only had the bike a month and never had them off. If I get the problem again I might start digging further, but whilst it's running ok I think I'll leave everything attached :)
-
I had a similar problem with my bike not so long ago. If the engine didn't catch on the first or second press of the starter switch then it would flood and you'd have to wait half an hour for it to clear itself. Weirdly enough a new battery seems to have cured it although I only changed the battery after the bike failed to start at a petrol station (after me having ridden two miles to get to there).
For my bike the starting procedure for a cold engine seems to be Full Choke on, Press starter button and simultaneously wind open the throttle, the bike will rev up so then let go of the throttle, the engine revs up to about 3k rpm then drops down to 750 then bounces back up (to about 3k). Once it's bounced back up the choke can be shut now matter how cold a day it is.
-
Choke full on for morning first starts for me,
but after work, been sitting 8-9 hrs, half choke usually: last few warmer days don't like choke at all works best with just a blip to get it started, if I try choke it dies.
-
Full choke if it's below freezing and bike outside. Half choke if bike been sitting out on windy day at work. No choke or just a fraction of bike been in garage or after normal day at work.
-
Cheers Jules only had mine since Feb so confirms that it seems normal-- but hopefully after a carb balance this weekend will idle a bit better and be cleaner through low revs.
-
Gently wheeled the bike out of the garage this morning, gave it one small plunge on the forks with the front brake, then it started first time no problems, on the side stand.
Couple of revs, no choke used at all, and it sat and purred no problem whatsoever?
I've put the bike on the centre stand outside work this morning, so i'll wait and see what happens when I go home later.
So annoying, because it's so unpredictable. :\
-
Gently wheeled the bike out of the garage this morning, gave it one small plunge on the forks with the front brake, then it started first time no problems, on the side stand.
Couple of revs, no choke used at all, and it sat and purred no problem whatsoever?
I've put the bike on the centre stand outside work this morning, so i'll wait and see what happens when I go home later.
So annoying, because it's so unpredictable. :\
Unpredictability in a car/bike you use daily is the most frustrating thing. Hope you can get it sorted.
-
This is where i park the bike every day at work, as you can see there's a bit of an uphill gradient but I don't see why that should affect starting the bike.
-
nice :faz darsi :thumbup black n unpredictable :wall hope you solve the riddle mucker.
-
my bike mostly starts no choke. wont start on full someone said to me that the carbs wear quicker if used badly and the
bike runs richer than rich. so im wonderin if my bike has had the foc ridden of it
-
i would clean the carbs sounds like the floats are sticking and when you rock it , it lets some petrol through can you hear the pump prime the carbs when you switch it on ?
-
i would clean the carbs sounds like the floats are sticking and when you rock it , it lets some petrol through can you hear the pump prime the carbs when you switch it on ?
Yep
-
So that's how i parked the bike in the photo this morning, up on the centre stand instead of the sidestand.
Put the key in, hit the start button with no choke.......and it started straight off, no problem at all.
I'm still thinking fuel related so what would cause it to not start being on the sidestand?
Sidestand switch has been bypassed, so it's nothing to do with that, plus the sidestand was down as well anyway when it started up.
-
I have to use full choke when engine is cold all year round, unless it's a really hot day, it always sputters in to life then once it smooths out and the revs rise (about 20 seconds) I can turn the choke off and runs sweet as after that.
How clean are your carbs? Just a thought.
Not sure about the carbs. I've only had the bike a month and never had them off. If I get the problem again I might start digging further, but whilst it's running ok I think I'll leave everything attached :)
Glad you're back up and running again, so annoying when your bike won't start for no apparent reason.
-
So that's how i parked the bike in the photo this morning, up on the centre stand instead of the sidestand.
Put the key in, hit the start button with no choke.......and it started straight off, no problem at all.
I'm still thinking fuel related so what would cause it to not start being on the sidestand?
Sidestand switch has been bypassed, so it's nothing to do with that, plus the sidestand was down as well anyway when it started up.
You said rocking the bike back and forth seems to make it start so I was thinking your floats or float valves might be sticking and rocking it frees them up so the carbs can fill and the bike starts. Parking it an angle on the side stand would be putting a small bit of sideways pressure on the float and float valves and making them stick worse whereas if the bike's parked upright then there's no sideways pressure on them they're less likely to stick. It's a long shot but I can't think of any other reason rocking it would make it start.
-
darrsi maybe it's time to break out that STP again. :)
-
darrsi maybe it's time to break out that STP again. :)
Certainly won't hurt to try!
-
Damn thing wouldn't start again this evening, and it was on the centre stand all day.
It starts for a few seconds then properly stops dead like the kill switch has been hit.
After about 5 attempts and shaking and bouncing the bike about like a madman it catches then runs perfectly.
I have no idea what to do next?
-
Electrical if it stops that suddenly. Check all connections and wires around steering head for possible breaks and check connections on back of ignition switch
-
Electrical if it stops that suddenly. Check all connections and wires around steering head for possible breaks and check connections on back of ignition switch
I'm starting to think the same now.
Me and electrics don't mix too well though, but i'll have a rummage when i get a chance and see if there's anything visual, but most of the wiring near the steering is all loomed up so it's not gonna be easy.
-
i would clean the carbs sounds like the floats are sticking and when you rock it , it lets some petrol through can you hear the pump prime the carbs when you switch it on ?
Was looking at the photo of my bike and realised that with the bike on the centre stand it is leaning back even more than when it's parked on the side stand on the uphill slope.
So i've parked the bike on the centre stand but on level ground so the bike is now leaning "down hill" rather than uphill.
I'm wondering (aimlessly) if something is drying out and sticking in the carbs as suggested when the bike is parked uphill during the day?
I'm clutching at straws a bit here, but it could be feasible.
-
So that's how i parked the bike in the photo this morning, up on the centre stand instead of the sidestand.
Put the key in, hit the start button with no choke.......and it started straight off, no problem at all.
I'm still thinking fuel related so what would cause it to not start being on the sidestand?
Sidestand switch has been bypassed, so it's nothing to do with that, plus the sidestand was down as well anyway when it started up.
You said rocking the bike back and forth seems to make it start so I was thinking your floats or float valves might be sticking and rocking it frees them up so the carbs can fill and the bike starts. Parking it an angle on the side stand would be putting a small bit of sideways pressure on the float and float valves and making them stick worse whereas if the bike's parked upright then there's no sideways pressure on them they're less likely to stick. It's a long shot but I can't think of any other reason rocking it would make it start.
Sorry Dude, just read this again.
Okay we're thinking along the same lines here now which is good.
When i gave the bike a quick bounce on the front brake this morning all the wires around the headstock never budged at all. I will have a good look but i don't think it's gonna be a chafed wire, not there anyway.
-
Could be the ignition switch, try bypassing it
-
Could be the ignition switch, try bypassing it
Bypassing the ignition switch?
Isn't that hot wiring?
Bike never started on the centre stand this evening, but as soon as i pushed it off the stand then it started straight away.
-
Recheck your side stand bypass,clutch switch & wiring connectors to the starter cut off relay under the seat.Does the bike start as normal when left for a short length of time.
-
Recheck your side stand bypass,clutch switch & wiring connectors to the starter cut off relay under the seat.Does the bike start as normal when left for a short length of time.
Wouldn't start on the centre stand though?
Started fine after getting fuel on the way home earlier.
-
Next time it don't start take a plug lead off a plug & make sure you got a spark from the cap.
-
Could be the ignition switch, try bypassing it
Bypassing the ignition switch?
Isn't that hot wiring?
Bike never started on the centre stand this evening, but as soon as i pushed it off the stand then it started straight away.
In you case it would be cold wiring :)
Let me know if you wan to try it and I will email you how, if anything it would rule out the ignition switch if the problems remains
-
Bloody thing started fine again this morning, as it has done the last few mornings, but I always have issues after work?
I don't see why it's okay after being in the garage (not heated at all) after sitting 14hrs overnight, yet plays games with me after 9hrs sitting outside work?
I've started using 99 RON fuel in the tank and a bottle of STP Fuel System Cleaner has just turned up, so I wanna run that through it for a few days and see if it helps at all with any possible sticking parts in the carbs.
-
May be it's work shy. :lol
-
May be it's work shy. :lol
I which case it would be only too happy to start to get away home. Maybe it's a workaholic?
-
Started this morning, lunch time and this evening straight off today.
No shaking the bike or even taking it off the centre stand was needed at all.
I'm happy that it's done that, but i'd really rather know what the problem actually is as well?
"Maybe" the higher grade fuel is doing something?
I've lobbed a whole bottle of STP in this afternoon so fingers crossed anything sticking might get a bit of a clean up with the two liquids combined.
We shall see.......
-
Does anyone know what would happen with an intermittent TPS?
I have had similar issues on cars and it has been either Cam or Crank sensors!!
-
Thread is a little old now - but often found on my fazer the battery was a little weak so turning the headlight off would often get it to start. If that fails don't sit they cranking it and flooding it - bump start it if you can.
-
Thread is a little old now - but often found on my fazer the battery was a little weak so turning the headlight off would often get it to start. If that fails don't sit they cranking it and flooding it - bump start it if you can.
All lights are always off when i start, and have a new battery.
It cranks fine, just doesn't catch.
In the process of trying something so will report back soon, but off work for now so not using the bike.
-
Does anyone know what would happen with an intermittent TPS?
I have had similar issues on cars and it has been either Cam or Crank sensors!!
Bike just runs like shit on an iffy TPS, on my 4th now, but it's a new one now, rather than used.
And the RPM needle will either mess about by moving, or simply refuse to budge, staying on either 0rpm or 10,000rpm.
-
Was just reading through this post again looking for something, and the problem did turn out to be sticking parts in the carbs which was TOTALLY sorted out by using this stuff.
I know it's a funny name but it's been around since 1923 so just allow it. :lol
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marvel-Mystery-Oil-Fuel-Oil-Additive-US-Quart-946-ml/111872395196?hash=item1a0c1d47bc:g:mCcAAOSwJoNZyGSr (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marvel-Mystery-Oil-Fuel-Oil-Additive-US-Quart-946-ml/111872395196?hash=item1a0c1d47bc:g:mCcAAOSwJoNZyGSr)
I worked out that a quick and easy measurement for around a 20 litre tank was a half a lid full, from a 500ml aerosol can lid, per full tank of fuel.
I used it for the first 3 full tanks, and now i use it once every 4 fill ups as a top up.
Not only does it lubricate the fuel system, but it makes the bike run as smooth as fook. :thumbup