Hi Viz. Do you believe It Helps?

[Frosties]

Now I admit that I used to wear a proper Oxford Hi Viz waist coat jobby until a couple of years ago I thought "doesn't make any feckin difference if they're not looking" and that it was useless when filtering to cars in front so stopped wearing it. Not had any dissimilar incidents since but noticed a lot more bike accidents this year since the dark nights/rain and mainly on dual carriageways/motorways.


I've upgraded the headlights & side lights on the CBF workhorse, added LED hand guards but for some reason am more cautious than previous years when filtering due to the incidents I've seen. Another tonight on the A329M going home, one on M4 Monday evening, another M4 Tuesday morning.


Just thought I'd ask the question as to your thoughts and if you've ever thought the Hi Viz has helped.

[fazersharp]

I have to say yes but only because I wear one - it cant be un-helpfull can it?.
It may certainly be helpful in any insurance claims I would of thought.
I use a stretch running top that gos over my leathers and it also has arms, but I dont wear it in the summer when there is good light, hot enough as it is without an extra lair.
Can you actually get leathers with high viz ?     

[Grayo]

As you've already said, I don't think it will make any difference if the thick cnuts are not going to look for you in the first place. Then of course there's the ones who do look for you and then deliberately block your filtering.

[Punkstig]

Never ever used to wear one as thought exactly the same- if they ain't looking it's not going to help.

It was only through my own observations that I realised how much they help this time of year on the motorway- coming up behind a couple of bikes, but only realised it was a couple when got closer, one guy had hi vis, the other was basically invisible from behind as he was all in black and in the same road position of the car in fronts rear lights!

[Grahamm]

I wear Hi-Viz when I think it's going to benefit me, so, yes, in the Winter especially, where you have early evenings and lots of rain or drizzle, I'll wear it.

However I won't just wear it a matter of course after an experience some years ago: I was riding on a country road and there was a guy cutting a hedge. He was wearing green Hi-viz jacket and trousers and it wasn't until he moved that I actually saw him because it was green against green, and was acting as camouflage!

[unfazed]

In poor weather conditions it can be very effective and my rain gear is hi-vis, but in fine bright weather can be a a bit of a false sense of security since it often matches the surrounds in the countryside.

My leathers do have reflective pinstripe and my helmet has reflective sections.

[Frosties]

Agree totally with summer use and long day light times. Also a bit dubious of it in London where every bastard wears Hi Viz so it goes partly un-noticed and seen as a common colour. My bike gear also has shed loads of reflective seams which are good when hit by headlights.

[sadlonelygit]

The TRL's report says:
 <blockquote>       The results are interesting in that they show the previously held assertion that a bright reflective jacket will improve rider conspicuity may not always be true ...
[T]he message seems to be that the most conspicuous outfit will be dictated by the lighting conditions and local environment at the time, which may be extremely variable within the confines of even a fairly short ride.


a green fluoro jacket against green foliage is more like camo than hi viz
reflective strips can help at night, but the old adage that they're all out to kill you still holds true

  </blockquote>

[DekF]

However I won't just wear it a matter of course after an experience some years ago: I was riding on a country road and there was a guy cutting a hedge. He was wearing green Hi-viz jacket and trousers and it wasn't until he moved that I actually saw him because it was green against green, and was acting as camouflage!

That's because he was probably doing the same speed as you were 

[fazersharp]

Mine is yellow - so the only time im am in camouflage is when the oil seed rape is ripe
Can you see me

[celticdog]

As you've already said, I don't think it will make any difference if the thick cnuts are not going to look for you in the first place. Then of course there's the ones who do look for you and then deliberately block your filtering.

I'm wearing a builders vest over my outer jacket at the moment as I'm commuting in the dark to and fro work. I definitely think it helps. I don't wear it in daylight. The traffic on my routes been mental busy this last while, nose to tail so lots of filtering for me. I've had 3 cnuts who've deliberately moved into my path in the last 6 weeks, It's not pleasant. Id be interested to hear how other foccers deal with this, what's the best policy?

[darrsi]

They help without a doubt, especially when raining at night with less visibilty.
There's been a few times when i've been walking up the main road in my area and i've seen smaller older bikes go past and other than a small red dot of a tail light the rider just blends into the background and vanishes into darkness.
And that's with clear vision, when you're out on the bike at night in rain you know how bad things can get visually, especially with headlights/brake lights lighting every raindrop up on the visor, so even for our benefit as well it's good if other bikers can be seen too.
Another thing as well is that when i don't wear it, which is highly unlikely these days, i feel as if car drivers treat me even worse than normal on the roads, as if i'm not even there.
Makes a big difference wearing a decent well made hi-vis singlet with a zip though, rather than using those crappy flappy builders ones that are shite over 10mph.   

[celticdog]

They help without a doubt, especially when raining at night with less visibilty.

Makes a big difference wearing a decent well made hi-vis singlet with a zip though, rather than using those crappy flappy builders ones that are shite over 10mph.   

That's a fair point darrsi, luckily the one I've got seems up to the job even in strong wind and rain. It's only two strips of velcro but it holds together well . . . Probably because it's not been washed yet!

[darrsi]

They help without a doubt, especially when raining at night with less visibilty.

Makes a big difference wearing a decent well made hi-vis singlet with a zip though, rather than using those crappy flappy builders ones that are shite over 10mph.   

That's a fair point darrsi, luckily the one I've got seems up to the job even in strong wind and rain. It's only two strips of velcro but it holds together well . . . Probably because it's not been washed yet!

The one i've been using for quite a while now is really well made and quite a heavy material for what it is, so doesn't budge at any speeds whatsoever. I've even tried it with just a t-shirt underneath in extremely hot weather and it still doesn't move.
It has adjustable sides to accommodate any size jacket, although i actually replaced the woven elastic for some with a bit more give as i wear a large textile jacket which is rather bulky.
Must've had it a good 5 years now and it's not wearing out or broken anywhere, plus they do it in orange too if you wanna be a bit different. Money well spent in my opinion.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Icon-Mil-spec-Mesh-Hi-Vis-Reflective-Motorcycle-Motorbike-Over-Vest-Yellow/111799931647?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Dcbb39ada38754089b36831eb40dc17ab%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D131638917768

[Slaninar]

Open road - yes. Definitely.
City riding - rarely.


And when it comes to SMIDSY, not sure it helps very much. Swerving before intersections is a lot more effective.

[darrsi]

Open road - yes. Definitely.
City riding - rarely.


And when it comes to SMIDSY, not sure it helps very much. Swerving before intersections is a lot more effective.

Depends which city you ride in i s'pose, i live in London where everyone drives like a self righteous wanker, so i try to be seen as much as i can so they can't use SMIDSY as an excuse.

[darrsi]

Open road - yes. Definitely.
City riding - rarely.


And when it comes to SMIDSY, not sure it helps very much. Swerving before intersections is a lot more effective.

"...Swerving before intersections is a lot more effective..."


Are you saying you swerve all over the road to be seen?
That would get you pulled over in the UK, then drink and drug tested at the roadside.

[Frosties]

Open road - yes. Definitely.
City riding - rarely.


And when it comes to SMIDSY, not sure it helps very much. Swerving before intersections is a lot more effective.

"...Swerving before intersections is a lot more effective..."


Are you saying you swerve all over the road to be seen?
That would get you pulled over in the UK, then drink and drug tested at the roadside.

I think Slaninar is referencing weaving which i admit to doing myself. Gently moving backwards and forwards across the lane to hopefully grab a drivers attention. We've all heard and understand the distance perspective issue that drivers appear to suffer with (also known as fucktard syndrome) so I'm with Slaninar on this one (first for everything  ).


I used to wear one of these and have a brand new one from the NEC a few years back. Think I'm going to start wearing it over the winter.

[HarryHornby]

They do a section on Hi-Vis on the Biker Down course run by the Fire Service.


It pretty much say what people have said in this thread.


It's certainly not a bad thing to wear but it doesn't make you invincible and it does depend on the surroundings, weather etc etc.


Yello hi-vis on a sunny autumn afternoon when the leaves are yellow and the sun is low means you will blend in.


A grey day in a city means you will stand out more.


A car at a minor junction turning into a major road at night, which way are his headlights pointing?  90 degrees to you coming along the major road, therefore the reflective properties of the hi-vis aren't being used and one would have to assume you've not been seen.


A big +1 for weaving when approaching a junction if there is a car waiting to pull onto the road I'm riding down.  Not massive movements, just enough to create sideways movement.

[fazersharp]

As mine is a stretch running top it fits tight and does not flap and also has the added benefit of extra viz because it has arms.

[crickleymal]

I'm with the majority in that I wear Hi Viz during the winter or when it's dark and rainy. I think it does help a bit. Certainly I've seen a few people on the motorway have Oh Shit moments when they've passed me and then though "was that a copper?" (not that I'm wearing anything that could possibly make people mistake me for a copper, just a Hi Viz waistcoat).

Weaving around a bit can help. I think if you ride in a dead straight line, people don't perceive the headlamp as moving. Whereas if you weave a bit the lamp shifts so becomes more noticeable.

[sadlonelygit]

hi viz, blues and 2's and some advanced training and this still happens to you

[maddog04]

a couple of points from my perspective as a fireman/RoSPA tutor/fire bike rider/Biker down tutor

1. the emergency services wear hi viz for a reason......it gets you seen....even the white lid is seen better  (by most of the population and granted there are goons who won't see you no matter how hard you try.......cue my fire engine mobile to a job, all the lights/bells klaxons on the go and the numpty pulls straight out in front of us)

as I ride, and it maybe that I'm more observant than other riders (no insult intended here but advanced riding teaches better observation skills) I tend to notice hi viz wearers early and can adjust to their position whether road users or pedestrians

2. biker down indeed discuss's hi viz and as others have said, its about the background, yellow on yellow/green on green and you have issues

3. weaving.....sounds drastic that word and confuses some but the technique works, not so much a weave but advanced riders will move away from a hazard..... in the case of a car at a junction, by moving away from the nearside/middle of the lane to the outer side then the movement catches the eye especially with headlights on. as for the car being at 90 degrees its the hi viz he's seeing not the reflective bits ergo hi viz is more daylight and the reflective bits are more darkness

try google looming and motion camouflage for better understanding of issues of us being seen by others

4. filtering......If people especially in stationary traffic still use their mirrors then hi viz should be seen but as a lot peeps just sit there waiting to move, then they don't consider looking.....I always bang the hi beam on when filtering and will try and "weave" as much as possible in the space I have to try and gain attention

5. a solicitor once told me that wearing a hi viz vest will automatically get you 80% of the benefit in court should you be hit, a cop once told me that at the scene of an accident, your clothing is duly noted by plod, hence you're all hi vizzed up, white/yellow lid then its hard for the cager to say Smidsy

I ride with it and its been pointed out that hi viz with sleeves is seen more than hi viz without, ie a full jacket as opposed to a vest helps more as sometimes the screen/fairing masks the vest where as the arms seem more prominent,  very pertinent if your hi viz is grubby with road grime and not really that hi viz any more

for those interested, there are different categories of hi viz too, if memory serves the class 1 is the best and is used by emergency workers and motorway workers as its the brightest

[fazersharp]

Has his bike just embedded its self int the car and stayed there.
Answers the question as to "so where did you strike the car"

[maddog04]

was that the accident with Prince Harry and his outriders?

think it was going down as 50/50 car pulled out of a side street but the outrider was overtaking the HRH range rover and T boned the car
HRH driver drives on thinking terrorist plot and leaves bikers to look after each other



google SEG/special escort group see youtube......best of the best but can still come a cropper as seen above