Author Topic: Please, please any suggestions!! (Read 3118 times)

Chrisaustin7130 · « **on:** 01 December 2015, 11:55:09 pm »

My problem sounds very common but after reading and trying several different things, i still can't get my Gen 1 to idle properly!
The history
I have had this bike for about 6 months, love it, wish i had bought one years ago. Anyway, the bike ran fine when i bought it but i noticed i never needed any choke and it would cut out if i pulled it on.
It didn't bother me as it started and ran fine, i just thought it odd!
About 6 weeks ago, it started barely running at idle, it would chug away, sometimes just cut out and die, eventually it would pick up and very gently easing the throttle would then allow it to warm up and idle at the correct tickover. Problem on the horizon i thought, but it still ran ok. Then one day it cut out after i started it and i could not get it to fire again. Blockage in the carbs i thought.
I then removed the carbs, cleaned them and refitted them after which it started to misfire on cylinder 1.
I replaced the plugs, swopped the plug caps from no 1 & 4 to see if the misfire moved but it didn't, replaced the coil in case the short HT lead was damaged, but it still misfired.
After more research, i pulled the carbs off again, changed the 4 rubber o rings on each fuel valve, checked and set the float heights to 14mm and tried again. It worked, or so i thought! After being stood again cuz the weather was so shite, i got the bike out and it misfired on cylinder 1.
Right, i thought get the carbs off again, buy a service kit and service carb 1, check float heights again, check all mixture screws and try again. The bike ran great as soon as i fired it up, took it for a ride and it behaved impeccably.
The bike stood again for a week or so, i got a window in the weather and grabbed the chance to get it out and go to work on it. Low and behold, the bike started, this time choke assisted but once the choke was pushed off, the idle speed was barely keeping the engine running until it warmed up a bit.
That is where i am at now. I have not balanced the carbs yet, that is next on my list but i would be surprised if that enables the bike to tickover at a higher speed so it doesn't cut out.
I would be very grateful for any suggestions as to where i should go next. Is there a tiny hole somewhere in the carbs i might not have cleared out? If so where and how best to clear them out might be one problem.
I don't think it is electrical, i have reset the tps on each occasion too.
And to think, i spent most of the last couple of years moaning about crap fuel injection, what i wouldn't give for an ecu fault code!
Cheers in advance for any useful advice.
(Bike is not Ivanised).

slappy · « **Reply #1 on:** 02 December 2015, 12:48:07 am »

Carb balancing will make tickover smoother usually so it is worthwhile doing, also check air filter and fuel filter.
What rpm are you setting the tickover to when the engine is warmed up?

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #2 on:** 02 December 2015, 12:52:08 am »

Thanks for the reply mate, i set the tickover to about 1300rpm but it will only reach this after a couple of minutes of very tentatively easing a bit of throttle to get it warmed up without cutting out.

slappy · « **Reply #3 on:** 02 December 2015, 01:00:01 am »

Idle speed should be between 1050 to 1150 rpm.
A lot of us on here have cut back the HT leads by about 10mm where they attach to the plug cap because they can get corroded,

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #4 on:** 02 December 2015, 11:32:13 am »

Thanks mate, i did try that when i supected the HT lead might be the issue but i replaced that coil anyway

sadlonelygit · « **Reply #5 on:** 03 December 2015, 03:22:02 pm »

You have changed the plugs, haven't you?
Start cheap and work through it logically.
next time you get a misfire turn the bike off and drop the offending plug. Dry is a fuelling issue, damp is ignition. Don't fixate on the carbs as 90% of misfiring is ignition related.

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #6 on:** 03 December 2015, 05:12:54 pm »

What SLG said about checking for dry/wet plug would be a helpful clue to seeing if this is electrical or carbs.

The 'choke' is an enrichener circuit and it's normal for a Fazer to start OK without it and to die if 'choke' is added when the engine has been running for a minute or two.

You seem to have done a thorough job of eliminating the possibility that this is a rich misfire caused by leakage past the float needle valve seats.

Have you made sure the tiny hole in the end of the pilot jet is completely clear? This can get partially blocked and affect the idle, especially when cold. Adding a touch of choke often seems to cure this but of course is only confirming that the pilot circuit isn't getting enough fuel through to the motor.

What's the year and mileage on the bike?

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #7 on:** 04 December 2015, 03:53:26 pm »

Thanks guys, i was wondering if the idol jet passageways might still be fouled, my next plan is to remove the carb (for the 5th time!) And get a compressed air jet through the pilot jets. Any tips or advice for this little exercise would be very helpful, Thanks.

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #8 on:** 04 December 2015, 03:55:43 pm »

Sorry Falcon, forgot to say its a 2003 with 13k miles

unfazed · « **Reply #9 on:** 04 December 2015, 05:13:08 pm »

If it is a blocked pilot path, I have found that High quality Cellulose Thinners is great for clearing the lacquer left behind by evaporated petrol.

Word of warning though, do not let it come in contact with and paint, rubber, human flesh and eyes

Run it through the holes a few time and then blow them in revers to normal flow with compressed air.

USE WITH CARE

sadlonelygit · « **Reply #10 on:** 04 December 2015, 05:24:20 pm »

Bet your left testicle it's the HT lead Pat

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #11 on:** 04 December 2015, 09:37:18 pm »

You can also rod through the pilot jets with a top E guitar string. Carefully.

13k miles on an 03 isn't a lot which means the bike has probably been standing with fuel going stale for quite a bit of its lifetime.

Check wet/dry plugs as previously suggested, then make a decision whether to go back into the carbs or look at possible ignition faults.

unfazed · « **Reply #12 on:** 04 December 2015, 10:21:09 pm »

Quote from: sadlonelygit on 04 December 2015, 05:24:20 pm

Bet your left testicle it's the HT lead Pat

Austin, I did say IF. I want to keep the testicles

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #13 on:** 04 December 2015, 11:58:39 pm »

Cheers Guys, i am pretty convinced the problem will be down to blockage (s) in the pilot jet passages so looks like all the rubber and plastic bits are coming off! It can't do any harm to try anyway.
As for ignition faults, the bike runs fine when it gets warmed up, if a little rough for the sake of getting the carbs balanced. Could electrical gremlins only surface on a cold start and then disappear as the bike warms up?

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #14 on:** 05 December 2015, 08:25:28 am »

As an alternative to the cellulose thinners Unfazed suggested, you could also try a can of Wynn's carb cleaner (or similar). Probably a bit easier to use and will allow you to blast the stuff through the relevant places under pressure.

Like the thinners, it's vital you keep this stuff away from the carb diaphragms, O-rings and other 'rubber' bits.

Assuming it is the pilot jet circuit that is blocked, this is a fairly short run through the carbs from the pilot jet hole to the 3 pilot jet bypass holes in the carb throat. Open the throttle plate and you'll immediately see these holes beneath. Remove the pilot jets, place the carb cleaner nozzle directly into the threaded hole and blaze away!

The jets themselves can be soaked in carb cleaner in a suitable container but I still recommend rodding them as well to be absolutely sure they're 100% clear.

NorthWestern · « **Reply #15 on:** 05 December 2015, 10:18:59 am »

https://youtu.be/cY1YndLmbXQ

NorthWestern · « **Reply #16 on:** 05 December 2015, 10:21:32 am »

I always think of that when wynns gets mentioned

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #17 on:** 05 December 2015, 01:26:04 pm »

Love the video! Where can i get some?
Thanks for all the advice, just need to get them off now and see if i can clean it through, will put an update on once i have had time to do it.

Falcon 269 · « **Reply #18 on:** 05 December 2015, 04:56:09 pm »

Halfords usually. They might do their own brand or something similar.

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 December 2015, 11:30:17 pm »

Right Chaps, an update!
Finally I have had time to service my remaining 3 carbs, fit new o rings and fuel valves, undertake a comprehensive flushing of each carb and a final blast through with the air line, oh and balancing the carbs..............it runs great!!
It's only taken about 8 weeks, carbs off and back on about 8 times, new plugs and a new coil but finally I got there.
Also popped in a new fuel filter and bought a service kit to clean and oil the K&N air filter.
I don't know how much it would have cost in the bike shop but at £30 an hour + vat, i reckon I have saved a few quid and learnt quite a lot.
Thanks to each and every one of you who took the time to post with some helpful advice.

PieEater · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 December 2015, 12:52:37 pm »

That's really good news, well done. With all your new found carb experience maybe Mike might take you on as an apprentice Ivaniser !!

Chrisaustin7130 · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 December 2015, 05:08:26 pm »

Ha ha, steady on old fella, think that might be a bit ambitious, might try ivanising it at some point when all the skin grows back over my knuckles!!