Date: 22-06-21  Time: 17:52 pm

Author Topic: Forking forks  (Read 571 times)

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Forking forks
« on: 17 May 2021, 09:23:37 am »
When rebuilding fzs600 forks, at full extension, should there be a gap between the spacer and the cap?
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,971
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #1 on: 17 May 2021, 12:32:37 pm »
When rebuilding fzs600 forks, at full extension, should there be a gap between the spacer and the cap?
No, before installing the cap the spacer should protrude or be level with the top of the stanchion. Did you get new springs?

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #2 on: 17 May 2021, 02:33:05 pm »
When rebuilding fzs600 forks, at full extension, should there be a gap between the spacer and the cap?
No, before installing the cap the spacer should protrude or be level with the top of the stanchion. Did you get new springs?


That was my view too. No new springs but feel like something is missing from the fork internals that holds the stanchion lower in the leg.

The middle of the spindle is about 15mm below the bottom of the fork tube. The damper rod bolts to the bottom of the tube. Thats 180mm long with a 20mm spring meaning the bottom of the stanchion is 160mm from the bottom of the tube. The stanchion is 600mm long meaning from the bottom of the tube to the top of the stanchion is 760mm (775mm from spindle).
When searching online people see to be saying spindle to cap is about 750mm so mine appear to be too long hence the thinking something is missing (but it isnt)
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #3 on: 17 May 2021, 04:35:34 pm »
Make sure, you've put the spacer (washer) between the spring and the long spacer  ;)
Later

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #4 on: 17 May 2021, 06:28:03 pm »
Make sure, you've put the spacer (washer) between the spring and the long spacer  ;)
Thanks Gnasher - hat 1mm reduction in the gap helps but doesn't reduce the length of the forks :pokefun
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,971
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #5 on: 17 May 2021, 09:55:06 pm »
Are these pieces in there in this order

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #6 on: 17 May 2021, 10:02:08 pm »
Thanks Gnasher - hat 1mm reduction in the gap helps but doesn't reduce the length of the forks :pokefun

If you don't put the washer in the spring can and will go over the damper.  The stanchions are all the same length and they can't have grown, you've missed something somewhere :pokefun
Later

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #7 on: 17 May 2021, 10:11:19 pm »
Hi Unfazed - yep all present and correct.

I think the issue is elsewhere though - The overall extended length of the fork appears to be too long.
The bits inside add up as follows:

185 damper
316 spring
200 spacer
    1 washer
  10 cap
----
712mm

The extended length of the stanchion and damper is 760 - so a 48mm gap in the top of the stanchion though it didnt look that much.



Im not worried about the gap inside  - that will disapear when I find the real issue.
With the stanchion fitted into the tube and the damper rod bolted in, extending the whole leg to max extension (with seals and clips all in place) the leg is too long. The gap between the dust cap and bottom yoke is greater than on other fzs that people have measured and when the brakes are fitted, the pipes ae like bow strings. No slack at all.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #8 on: 17 May 2021, 10:13:14 pm »
Thanks Gnasher - hat 1mm reduction in the gap helps but doesn't reduce the length of the forks :pokefun

If you don't put the washer in the spring can and will go over the damper.  The stanchions are all the same length and they can't have grown, you've missed something somewhere :pokefun
Do you mean the spacer over the spring? The damper is like a piston taking the full width of the stanchion.

Like mentioned above, the issue isnt the gap inside the fork, thats a symptom.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #9 on: 17 May 2021, 10:14:54 pm »
 :lol  yes  :rollin ;)
Later

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,971
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #10 on: 18 May 2021, 01:11:54 am »
The only items on the list that will effect the extended length of the forks is the length damper rod or maybe the part at the end of the stanchion that the damper rod rebound spring rests on is missing. I have heard of stanchions being supplied without  this internal section at the bottom of the stanchion. If yours is one of those then the stanchions would be about 20-25mm longer when fitted
« Last Edit: 18 May 2021, 01:24:50 am by unfazed »

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #11 on: 18 May 2021, 10:55:19 am »
Unfazed, the stanchions i took off had a circlip in a groove in the bottom but it was only a couple of mm in. The new ones have a peened over bit on the end which may make a couple of mm difference but nothing to worry about.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,971
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #12 on: 18 May 2021, 11:31:54 am »
Must check the one I have in the garage later as it was definitely a lot more than a few mm, and was not easy to get out of a bent one that I threw out

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #13 on: 18 May 2021, 01:07:53 pm »
The new ones have a peened over bit on the end which may make a couple of mm difference but nothing to worry about.

From that statement, I'm assuming you're either replacing current one with new due to damage or wear, if so and again assuming obtained from a braker/stealer, have they sent you the right part?

If none of the above and you've just rebuilt the fork/s replacing bushes/seal etc, you must have left something out as they really only go together one way without extreme force of course!   
Later

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #14 on: 18 May 2021, 01:49:52 pm »
From that statement, I'm assuming you're either replacing current one with new due to damage or wear, if so and again assuming obtained from a braker/stealer, have they sent you the right part?

If none of the above and you've just rebuilt the fork/s replacing bushes/seal etc, you must have left something out as they really only go together one way without extreme force of course!   
New stanchions from ABE - and just the way that they do the bottom of the stanchion. Overall length of the stanchion is correct. All parts present and correct as per the fork inners picture posted above.

The think I cannot understand is the difference in lengths involved. For the damper/stanchion, it should be 755mm (ish) based on the length of the stanchion and the damper (taking the rebound spring into account)
The overall length of everything inside according to the Yamaha manual (measurements above) suggest there's a 40mm difference which is what I nearly have (25ish) but experience tells me that when everything is assembled the top of the spacer tube should be in contact with the cap when the leg is fully extended - not a 25-40mm gap.

Thinking about it logically, and having been out to the garage to measure it all up again, the stanchion is 595mm long. Allowing for the bottom part, lets say 590 of space to fill.
Allowing for the rebound spring (25mm) and the top of the damper (5mm) that leaves 560mm to be filled up by other bits of metal.


325 for the spring
200 for the spacer
    1 for washer
  10 for cap
=======
536   <-------the numbers just dont add up - Time for another coffee

It must be something like Unfazed has mentioned and a collar meant to be in the bottom of the stanchion that does not appear on any parts list (or evident in the ones I have binned now) that prevents the damper seal/spring from going to the very bottom of the stanchion.


Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,354
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300, X10
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #15 on: 18 May 2021, 02:11:37 pm »
Mate, they should fit end of.  I've never used them, but checking their web site I can't see anywhere stating you need to add to their replacement tubes.

I'd contact them and give them the problem, it's possible they either made them wrong or they've sent you the wrong tubes.
« Last Edit: 18 May 2021, 02:44:38 pm by Gnasher »
Later

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #16 on: 18 May 2021, 02:27:58 pm »
Thanks Gnasher - it is a mystery. I will give them a call I think.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,971
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #17 on: 18 May 2021, 02:35:34 pm »
Did you by chance put the Oil Flow stopper piece at the bottom in upside down?

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #18 on: 18 May 2021, 03:51:13 pm »
Did you by chance put the Oil Flow stopper piece at the bottom in upside down?
That was my first thought but no.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,971
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #19 on: 18 May 2021, 07:16:00 pm »
This is the bottom of the spare fork leg I have. The damper rod rest above the white piece, if yours doesn't have that, therein lies the problem

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,731
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: Forking forks
« Reply #20 on: 18 May 2021, 07:55:20 pm »
:thumbup

Now to contact ABE

Thanks all - I thought I was going mad.
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again