Date: 28-03-24  Time: 11:43 am

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 209571 times)

agricola

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #925 on: 15 December 2018, 10:48:19 am »
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.



So tell me how Im better off in the EU then


Still waiting


Still waiting

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #926 on: 15 December 2018, 11:14:33 am »

All the talk now is of a second referendum as the only way to break the deadlock.


They're saying that if the result is Leave again we're back were we are now and Parliament will still reject it.


If the result is Remain they'll accept it and we stay in forever more.








VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #927 on: 15 December 2018, 11:33:19 am »
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All the talk now is of a second referendum as the only way to break the deadlock.
 
 
They're saying that if the result is Leave again we're back were we are now and Parliament will still reject it.
 
 
If the result is Remain they'll accept it and we stay in forever more.

There are a few problems with a referendum.  The first is time.  We can’t hold a carefully considered referendum and meet the march deadline.


The second is the question.  My suggestion is – May’s Deal or Cancel article 50.  My reasoning is that May’s deal is the only deal on the table (so we are told), and though it will cost the UK economically it’s the not the hellish prospect that NO DEAL is.  However, there are almost endless options for the question, and the question at the end of the day has to satisfy the public.  And while I can understand those who call for NO DEAL on the voting slip, will parliament whom is overwhelmingly opposed to NO DEAL agree to risk such a disaster?


3.   As for parliament rejecting the result.  If the question is agreed and the legislation passed to make the result legally binding – well that is that.  Whatever people decide must be enacted.
 
That’s why I think a cross party committee is a better and more likely solution. 
Deadlock is indeed where we are right now.  It’s where we were always going to end up following the LEAVE result in 2016.  David Cameron opened one big focc off can o worms. 
 
« Last Edit: 15 December 2018, 11:34:34 am by VNA »

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #928 on: 15 December 2018, 02:57:58 pm »

I've got a bad feeling about all this. I can see us Leavers getting robbed of our victory :( .




mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #929 on: 15 December 2018, 03:51:32 pm »
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Because a Norway type deal was not on the ballot paper - that's how he knows people did not vote for it.
Neither was 'No Deal' although you all seem to think it was......

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #930 on: 15 December 2018, 04:01:59 pm »
Quote
All the talk now is of a second referendum as the only way to break the deadlock.They're saying that if the result is Leave again we're back were we are now and Parliament will still reject it.If the result is Remain they'll accept it and we stay in forever more.

Interesting article in the Guardian today (yeah I know left wing elitist rag blah blah). As you say, another referendum cannot be Remain/Leave as we would be no further forward. If it's a two choice referendum it's either got to be No Deal/Theresa's Deal, Theresa's deal /Remain or No deal /Remain. So something would have to be eliminated making one lot unhappy.
The other option they suggested was putting 3 on the paper, and allow a second preference vote. The worry with that is we all end up with Theresa's deal  :eek

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #931 on: 15 December 2018, 04:04:38 pm »
Has anyone seen the vid of junker yesterday ruffling up a Woman's hair. What ever happened to "me too" Now if that was Borris who did that it would be called a sexual assault and there would be calls for him to be sacked. How come Junker has not been sacked ----- oh wait a minute, no one can.
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #932 on: 15 December 2018, 04:11:26 pm »
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Has anyone seen the vid of junker yesterday ruffling up a Woman's hair. What ever happened to "me too" Now if that was Borris who did that it would be called a sexual assault and there would be calls for him to be sacked.
No I've got better things to do. Was it Theresa?  :D Actually, if it was Boris it would be a sexual assault. Incidentally, where is Boris? He's gone very quiet lately. Sulking because he can't make a leadership challenge for another 12 months?  :lol

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #933 on: 15 December 2018, 04:22:43 pm »
Actually, while we're on the subject of sexual assaults, interesting to see that two Tory MPs who had the whip suspended because of allegations of sexual misconduct were suddenly 'unsuspended' just so they could take part of the 'confidence' vote for May. So it just goes to show that within the Tory party,  morals take second place to power.  :rolleyes

fazersharp

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #934 on: 15 December 2018, 04:42:20 pm »
Here you are
 
Sorry...
« Last Edit: 15 December 2018, 04:43:30 pm by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #935 on: 15 December 2018, 04:57:46 pm »
I just see white, and it's not even snowing (yet)  :lol

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #936 on: 15 December 2018, 05:44:38 pm »
Uh oh. Sounds like you know who's been sampling the VSOP with a bit too much enthusiasm again ;)

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #937 on: 15 December 2018, 05:45:45 pm »
VSOP! That's European isn't it?  :)

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #938 on: 15 December 2018, 06:28:01 pm »
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Interesting article in the Guardian today (yeah I know left wing elitist rag blah blah). As you say, another referendum cannot be Remain/Leave as we would be no further forward. If it's a two choice referendum it's either got to be No Deal/Theresa's Deal, Theresa's deal /Remain or No deal /Remain. So something would have to be eliminated making one lot unhappy.
The other option they suggested was putting 3 on the paper, and allow a second preference vote. The worry with that is we all end up with Theresa's deal  :eek
But the priority of parliament is to avoid a NO DEAL BREXIT.


Bearing in mind that;
1.       The 2016 referendum should have never been put to the people.
2.       That May tried to by-pass parliament with her deal.
3.       Further May tried to block parliament’s right to stop the whole process.
 
 
Therefore, surely, parliament must now take control.  Otherwise arguably our democracy appears to be failing.
I think we will increasingly hear of a cross party initiative over the next few days.  This may either happen by consensus or via the brutal mechanism of a no confidence vote. 
 
I think the 2 overall priorities will be;
1.       There cannot be a NO DEAL BREXIT
2.       The Good Friday Agreement must not be undermined in any shape or form.
 
Plus, initially somewhat privately across the Labour, Tories and Lib Dems (what’s left of them) the third objective will be to squash any call for a second Independence referendum.
 
If the three priorities can be agreed, then it’s not difficult to see where we end up.
 
Plus parliament will have asserted it’s power, uncertainty nipped in the bud and our economy can begin to move forwards again.  Unrest in NI averted and the integrity of the UK secured for some years to come.
 
 
 

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #939 on: 15 December 2018, 06:39:57 pm »
 Talking of consensus.


What the English don’t seem to realise, and certainly the English press don’t, and indeed despite a number of coalitions in our UK history, is that a lack of majority is not the end of the world.
 
Our government here in Scotland is a minority government (apart from one term when the SNP did the impossible and won a majority).  The current SNP government cannot pass legislation without the support of others. 



Many countries right round the world operate on this basis. 



What Westminster, now needs to do, is what it thinks is not possible, but which in fact is the norm for so many countries across the globe.
 

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #940 on: 15 December 2018, 06:54:06 pm »
But 'Westminster'  is already a minority government. They are only in power by forming a coalition with the Dinosaur Unionist Party  :)

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #941 on: 15 December 2018, 07:11:21 pm »
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But 'Westminster'  is already a minority government. They are only in power by forming a coalition with the Dinosaur Unionist Party  :)

 Well yes, sort of.  Not a coalition as the 2010 – 2015 was.  But a Tory majority via a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP.  Bought and paid for as it happens.
 
But still the idea of a true minority government operating on an issue by issue basis seeking cross party support is seen as impossible in England.
 
First past the post and an obsession with majority is partly to blame for creating this whole mess.
 

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #942 on: 15 December 2018, 07:28:58 pm »
In reply, I give you the Italians....  :lol

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #943 on: 15 December 2018, 08:11:24 pm »
The Italian system almost makes the EU seem simple.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #944 on: 15 December 2018, 09:13:54 pm »

I was amazed that they actually gave us a referendum. Amazed that the result was Leave. Amazed that they said they'd honour that decision.


Not in the least bit amazed that it increasingly looks like it's was all for nothing. So disappointing if that happens. What will it mean for democracy?. It will alienate so many people from it. I know the Remainers would be whooping with joy, but what a hollow 'victory'.

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #945 on: 15 December 2018, 10:13:02 pm »
 
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I was amazed that they actually gave us a referendum.
It was done to win an election.
Quote
Amazed that the result was Leave.
David Cameron never considered for one second, he would loose it.  If he had, he would have never offered it in the first place. 
Quote
Amazed that they said they'd honour that decision.
What else could they do?
But I still don’t know what it is you think you have won, or what it is you want. 
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Not in the least bit amazed that it increasingly looks like it's was all for nothing. So disappointing if that happens. What will it mean for democracy?. It will alienate so many people from it. I know the Remainers would be whooping with joy, but what a hollow 'victory'.
All for nothing?  What do you mean?  It’s about the Tory party.  And haven't you noticed it has claimed two Prime Ministers (May will have to go at some point), we are on our third BREXIT secretary, the cabinet has a revolving door, and we are now effectively  without government. 



Victory?  Who is winning?  What is the prize :eek   Nobody is winning in this.  And foc help us if the right-wing establishment elite represented by Mogg and others wins – as they will be the only ‘winners’.


At the end of the day we are a representative democracy.  See my post 938, it is time for our democracy to act. 
 

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #946 on: 16 December 2018, 08:05:53 am »
I see Mrs May has put The Blair Creature in his place. Well said woman :thumbup

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #947 on: 16 December 2018, 10:31:51 am »
We probably all agree on this.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #948 on: 16 December 2018, 11:20:43 am »
Agreed.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #949 on: 16 December 2018, 12:19:09 pm »

We probably all agree on this.


Sorry to disappoint you but....