Starting issue

[risticuss]

Not sure what's going on, I had the bike off the road for a couple of weeks so I could get the downpipes replaced and when trying to start it up again, killed the battery.

I charged it up and today hit the start button to get a buzzing, clicking noise from the starter relay.

The question is, is it screwed or is there some magical way of sorting it.

All the fuses are good but the battery could probably do with being replaced if I'm honest as the alarm (now removed) killed it a couple of times.

[Val]

Charge the battery and test it: http://www.yuasabatteries.com/faqs.php?action=1&id=30

If the battery test is fine you may have some bad connections/earth or burned wires/shorting issues...

[risticuss]

I can test the static voltage which is 12.4v so 75% charged but the bike won't start due to the relay so I can't do either of the other checks.

For the sake of a few quid I might just buy another relay.

I just wanted to make sure I hadn't done anything wrong or stupid.

[Punkstig]

What does the voltage go down to when holding the starter button?
I'd be placing my money on the battery, hearing a click from the relay points to that part working but not getting enough juice to energise the starter motor!

[crickleymal]

Same here, I think its the battery. Can you jump start it off a car?

[risticuss]

I was thinking that it was the battery more and more last night.


I'm off to pick one up today so that I can try it out.


I'm not sure of the voltage when the starter button was press as I just whipped the battery off to get the relay out as I thought I'd broken something.


I also had a rather impatient wife who wanted me to look after our 7 month old daughter, which wasn't really conducive to working on the bike. 


I always thought it wasn't a good idea to jump-start off a car lest it blow something else up?

[His Dudeness]

You probably know this already but a relay is just a magnetic switch that uses a low current circuit to control a high current circuit ( ie the small starter button on the handle bar is the low current circuit used to control the high current starter motor). They're used in the starting circuit so you don't have big thick wires running down the bike and a huge starter button They have two pins on the low current side (the starter switch side) which simplifying it a bit goes from the starter switch on the handle bar to the first pin of the relay, then the second pin on the low current side of the relay goes to ground. This powers a little electromagnetic coil in the relay. The electromagnet closes a switch on the high current side of the relay to complete the high current side of the circuit. There's two pins on the high current which go from the battery on the third pin, then the fourth pin goes to the starter and the starter grounds against the frame. The clicking sound you're hearing is the switch on the high current side opening and closing rapidly because the battery doesn't have the enough power energise that side of the circuit and spin the starter so it just clicks rapaidly. So a clicking relay is a good indicator that your relay is working but your battery power is low and needs to be charged or replaced if it doesn't hold a charge. Hopefully that makes sense. You can jump it off a car as long as the car is turned off or you can put it in second gear and push start it.

[Val]

I always thought it wasn't a good idea to jump-start off a car lest it blow something else up?

Do not start the car. You can jump-start off a car fine if you do not start it. Means you are just using the car battery which is perfectly fine.

[darrsi]

Just bump start it in 2nd gear, it's easy enough with these bikes.

[risticuss]

Thanks His Dudeness, that's a very comprehensive description. I must admit my ignorance of the finer points of electrical  bits and bobs but I'm always willing to learn.
I've bought myself a new battery today as I've been having problems with mine for a while now. I'm going to charge it up tonight and give it a whirl tomorrow.
I'll also at some point get round to going over the electrical connections and the earths with the cleaner and grease, once my wife allows it. ;-)

By the way, I hate bump starting, I'm always afraid I'll drop it just as I jump on. Plus I live on a main road.

[darrsi]

Thanks His Dudeness, that's a very comprehensive description. I must admit my ignorance of the finer points of electrical  bits and bobs but I'm always willing to learn.
I've bought myself a new battery today as I've been having problems with mine for a while now. I'm going to charge it up tonight and give it a whirl tomorrow.
I'll also at some point get round to going over the electrical connections and the earths with the cleaner and grease, once my wife allows it. ;-)

By the way, I hate bump starting, I'm always afraid I'll drop it just as I jump on. Plus I live on a main road.

They're REALLY easy to bump start, don't run with it, just sit on it and move it forward a bit, preferably not uphill  or maybe get some helpful soul to give to a little push.

[fazersharp]

They're REALLY easy to bump start, don't run with it, just sit on it and move it forward a bit, preferably not uphill  or maybe get some helpful soul to give to a little push.

I didn't know they were that easy, it reminds me of my teens when we had old bikes in the local field, the only way they would ever start was by bumping and it was a true art and I think where the term bumping came from because you would run along with the bike but at the moment that you let out the clutch you would jump up in the air and land down hard on the seat (bump) and this would give the rear wheel extra purchase otherwise it would just skid and also if it did take then you needed to be sitting on it. Sometimes you would run 1/4 mile continually jumping on it. The proper experts would jump on it side saddle so when it didn't take you could jump off quick without loosing too much momentum
So I am glad to know the fzs can be done so easy   

[Val]

You probably know this already but a relay is just a magnetic switch that uses a low current circuit to control a high current circuit ( ie the small starter button on the handle bar is the low current circuit used to control the high current starter motor). They're used in the starting circuit so you don't have big thick wires running down the bike and a huge starter button They have two pins on the low current side (the starter switch side) which simplifying it a bit goes from the starter switch on the handle bar to the first pin of the relay, then the second pin on the low current side of the relay goes to ground. This powers a little electromagnetic coil in the relay. The electromagnet closes a switch on the high current side of the relay to complete the high current side of the circuit. There's two pins on the high current which go from the battery on the third pin, then the fourth pin goes to the starter and the starter grounds against the frame. The clicking sound you're hearing is the switch on the high current side opening and closing rapidly because the battery doesn't have the enough power energise that side of the circuit and spin the starter so it just clicks rapaidly. So a clicking relay is a good indicator that your relay is working but your battery power is low and needs to be charged or replaced if it doesn't hold a charge. Hopefully that makes sense. You can jump it off a car as long as the car is turned off or you can put it in second gear and push start it.

Just to expalin energise high current starter bit in more details:

When you push the starter the starter realy magnetic switch switches on. It needs certain amount of voltage and juice (ampers) in order to switch on and to stay switched on.

What is occurring in your case is that the starter relay engages.  This connects via high current switch in the realy the battery to the starter motor.  The starter motor loads the battery causing the voltage to drop but not enough juice to turn the starter. That starter motor load causes the battery voltage to drop, the reduced voltage is insufficient to hold the relay and it opens, disconnecting the battery from the starter motor.  The battery voltage recovers, because there is no started load present thus allowing the solenoid relay to re-engage and starting the switch on relay cycle all over again. Hence the rapid clicking.

[risticuss]

all sorted now guys, thanks for the input and explanations.


T'was the battery after all. Buy new one, charge it, fit it hit started button and vroom.... lovely.


As for the bumping (oo er), I've tried a couple of times, obviously with a knackered battery and i'm just shattered by the time I'm a hundred yards down the road, having to push the bike back to drive. I did have a cyclist stop once to give me a hand. And I dropped my CBR a week before a guy was coming to view and subsequently buy it. Luckily, just a scuff to the generator cover and a snapped indicator.


Cheers all.

[darrsi]

all sorted now guys, thanks for the input and explanations.


T'was the battery after all. Buy new one, charge it, fit it hit started button and vroom.... lovely.


As for the bumping (oo er), I've tried a couple of times, obviously with a knackered battery and i'm just shattered by the time I'm a hundred yards down the road, having to push the bike back to drive. I did have a cyclist stop once to give me a hand. And I dropped my CBR a week before a guy was coming to view and subsequently buy it. Luckily, just a scuff to the generator cover and a snapped indicator.


Cheers all.

100 yards! 
I've had a totally flat battery before due to a wiring issue with the headlight high beam and it bumped in just a few feet, by far the easiest bike I've ever had to start that way.

Glad you got it sorted anyway.