Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: simonm on 06 April 2013, 05:28:58 pm
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So I screwed up.....again. Not my proudest moment. I'm a klutz.
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Oh dear, sorry to see it :(
What happened?
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Ouch :( Hope you're ok though.
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ouch but anything you can walk or even hobble away from isnt all bad !
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Ouch! Hope you're alright?
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ouch again.....hope your alright buddy......bikes can be mended us foccers are a little more fragile :\
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I'm okay, just a stonking great bruise on my right thumb and broken pride and fragile confidence.
I'm a newb and I've come off twice in three months. Starting to wonder if it's a sign.
Street view is here: http://goo.gl/maps/IJDbj (http://goo.gl/maps/IJDbj)
No real excuse I can think of apart from incompetence. I thought I was going in too quick, tried the rear brake, as I was beginning to go around the corner, no speed dropped off so I put the rear brake on more and it locked up... I think. I don't know, apart from I was stupid.
I need to practise cornering off the road (by off the road I mean track), apparently Mallory park do a cornering course or something. I just go around corners fine and then occasionally, for no reason I can ascertain, I just think this feels wrong and it all falls apart a bit.
I never thought I was a good rider but I seem a lot better at speed than when I'm travelling slowly. It's a bit surreal.
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At least the bike I bought were cheap. I'm be devastated if I'd taken a spill on a new £9k Ducati or something. I know I should be grateful that I'm here and I'm okay but I think it's human nature to focus on other things once we've done 'the pat down' and figured that we're intact.
Thank you for your thoughts and good/well wishes. It's appreciated.
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Have a good butchers at this, it's quite informative :thumbup
http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/braking/ (http://www.lazymotorbike.eu/tips/braking/)
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I wasn't taking the piss with the thumbs up :lol
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I wasn't taking the piss with the thumbs up :lol
Big grins lad. :D
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Well at least you know what its like to fall off simon,not that i want to fall off but sometimes the fear of it must put folk off their stride a bit.its another tick in the box,even if you have got 2 ticks.& your still about to tell the tale.
After my bike being in storage for 5 months ive been learning again,ive got a lovely road on my doorstep that winds over the hills,its quite technical,a few dodgy bends,some fast corners,plenty farm traffic,couple o cattle grids,gravel in the centre of some of the corners,junctions.i've dont the same route a number of times in the last couple of weeks & if i can master it im sure ill be confident on any road.
I know what you mean about the speed, i was following a mate down a dodgy road with poor views round tight corners,slower speeds but he was going too fast & i was outta my comfort zone following him & backed off as i was all over the place,fasforward a bit to long sweeping corners,higher speeds & i was off in front wondering what had happened to him,& he was on a gsxr 600 that shoulda left me in the dust.
Backto my practice road,To start with i was getting in trouble going into a series of bends too fast,leaving my braking too late then getting a bit flustered,but i was in the wrong gears & too busy braking to even begin lining up & smoothly getting on the throttle,now im kicking it down the box to lose my speed & it feels much smoother.
Not sure if most folk do this but ive started putting weight on the pegs when cornering,like the start of a squat instead of jus slumped in the seat & i feel much better,i think i read somewhere that it lowers the centre of gravity coz its on the pegs lower down instead of the seat but anywayi like it.
Ive also read about the back brake trick to get round a corner but i honestly dont think i'd manage this & id probably upset the bike squirming about trying to get on it, best bit of advice i read on this site was just look where you wanna go,turn in tighter & hope for the best...nice & simple.
1 other thing,how long do you go out for...ive kinda noticed that i dont really warm up properly until about 40 or 50 miles into a ride & after a quick pee & tea stop.
Please get back on & crack on simon,coz it gives other newbs like me some hope that we'll do the same if we ever fall off.good luck with the track day too. 8)
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I'm okay, just a stonking great bruise on my right thumb and broken pride and fragile confidence.
I'm a newb and I've come off twice in three months. Starting to wonder if it's a sign.
Street view is here: [url]http://goo.gl/maps/IJDbj[/url] ([url]http://goo.gl/maps/IJDbj[/url])
No real excuse I can think of apart from incompetence. I thought I was going in too quick, tried the rear brake, as I was beginning to go around the corner, no speed dropped off so I put the rear brake on more and it locked up... I think. I don't know, apart from I was stupid.
I need to practise cornering off the road (by off the road I mean track), apparently Mallory park do a cornering course or something. I just go around corners fine and then occasionally, for no reason I can ascertain, I just think this feels wrong and it all falls apart a bit.
I never thought I was a good rider but I seem a lot better at speed than when I'm travelling slowly. It's a bit surreal.
Glad you're Ok but seriously, if you have fallen off twice in 3 months then you need to get some extra tuition or call it a day before you turn into a statistic.
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I'm okay, just a stonking great bruise on my right thumb and broken pride and fragile confidence.
I'm a newb and I've come off twice in three months. Starting to wonder if it's a sign.
Street view is here: [url]http://goo.gl/maps/IJDbj[/url] ([url]http://goo.gl/maps/IJDbj[/url])
No real excuse I can think of apart from incompetence. I thought I was going in too quick, tried the rear brake, as I was beginning to go around the corner, no speed dropped off so I put the rear brake on more and it locked up... I think. I don't know, apart from I was stupid.
I need to practise cornering off the road (by off the road I mean track), apparently Mallory park do a cornering course or something. I just go around corners fine and then occasionally, for no reason I can ascertain, I just think this feels wrong and it all falls apart a bit.
I never thought I was a good rider but I seem a lot better at speed than when I'm travelling slowly. It's a bit surreal.
Glad you're Ok but seriously, if you have fallen off twice in 3 months then you need to get some extra tuition or call it a day before you turn into a statistic.
That's the plan. That's why I had the bike safe course and why I intend to do more training. Thanks for the advice
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Really glad you're ok Simonm, shame the bike has some battle scars though.
I don't mean to offend you but the situation you describe sounds very avoidable...
You shouldn't need to be braking while turning in normal road riding. It means that you approached, and entered, the corner far too fast for your ability/confidence and that shouts a lack of forward planning whilst riding.
However once you found yourself in the corner going too fast and with the brake already applied then you should have released the brake, applied pressure to the inside bar, looked where you wanted to go and trusted your tyres (they will continue to grip long after the bike is leaned over further than a novice rider will want to lean but by asking it to grip whilst leaning and braking with weight moving forward and off the rear tyre it is much more likely to lock up as you found out).
We all make mistakes but planning ahead and being able to read the road are very important skills to learn.
All the best with the repairs and as I said, really glad you're ok.
Chris
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Really glad you're ok Simonm, shame the bike has some battle scars though.
I don't mean to offend you but the situation you describe sounds very avoidable...
You shouldn't need to be braking while turning in normal road riding. It means that you approached, and entered, the corner far too fast for your ability/confidence and that shouts a lack of forward planning whilst riding.
However once you found yourself in the corner going too fast and with the brake already applied then you should have released the brake, applied pressure to the inside bar, looked where you wanted to go and trusted your tyres (they will continue to grip long after the bike is leaned over further than a novice rider will want to lean but by asking it to grip whilst leaning and braking with weight moving forward and off the rear tyre it is much more likely to lock up as you found out).
We all make mistakes but planning ahead and being able to read the road are very important skills to learn.
All the best with the repairs and as I said, really glad you're ok.
Chris
No offence taken. I said I was a klutz and it was my incompetence. Not much more I can say to completely accept responsibility for my own actions.
I think I'll call my local riding school and see what, if anything, they can do to help me with my cornering.
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It's not just a question of throwing money at the problem, although further training is always useful. It's the mechanisms in your brain that can really screw you up and you need to train your brain to react the right way. In this situation your brains, and therefore your bodys, reaction was wrong.
Please take the time to watch this, albeit very american in its presentation and very cheesy, there is amazing advice in it: Twist of the Wrist II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVWNinsmkAw#)
It's not a question of learning to go faster on the road. It teaches you how to understand and use the right inputs to control the machine you are using, training your brain to react in the right way and staying safe.
We've all done something and scared the crap out of ourselves or been caught out by a tighterning corner while on our bikes but by having the right reactions, knowledge and skills most of these situations can be avoided.
Take care,
Chris
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It's not just a question of throwing money at the problem, although further training is always useful. It's the mechanisms in your brain that can really screw you up and you need to train your brain to react the right way. In this situation your brains, and therefore your bodys, reaction was wrong.
Please take the time to watch this, albeit very american in its presentation and very cheesy, there is amazing advice in it: Twist of the Wrist II ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVWNinsmkAw#[/url])
It's not a question of learning to go faster on the road. It teaches you how to understand and use the right inputs to control the machine you are using, training your brain to react in the right way and staying safe.
We've all done something and scared the crap out of ourselves or been caught out by a tighterning corner while on our bikes but by having the right reactions, knowledge and skills most of these situations can be avoided.
Take care,
Chris
I've watched twist of the wrist, but there is a difference between watching and implementing and also implementing correctly. I'll watch it again but I need confidence and at the moment I don't feel confident where there are cars and trucks and concrete kerbs.
I'm staying off the road on the bike for a while till I figure out how I can sort my head out.
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I don't mean to offend you but the situation you describe sounds very avoidable...
Chris
What kind of Foc'cer would send me a PM telling me I should say to Chris "take yer boike N fook off back oop norrth ya bastad" ..I have no idea :lol
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A southern fairy who wouldn't dare say it to my face :rolleyes :lol
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A southern fairy who wouldn't dare say it to my face :rolleyes :lol
:rollin
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some good advise there simonm,take no notice of the pm..theres always one :rolleyes .....we have all been in that situation before hence all the advice,after a long winter lay up i do it myself a couple of times untill i get back in my stride,3/4 years ago i did a bike safe refresher course with local council/police all stuff i already new but nice to have a reminder.....road position also very important,use the whole width even the over side when its safe to do so ;) ......good luck with whatever you decide to do ;)
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"WOT A PILLOCK"........not you simonm,the idiot who sent the pm....now thats what i call a PILLOCK.
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some good advise there simonm,take no notice of the pm..theres always one :rolleyes .....we have all been in that situation before hence all the advice,after a long winter lay up i do it myself a couple of times untill i get back in my stride,3/4 years ago i did a bike safe refresher course with local council/police all stuff i already new but nice to have a reminder.....road position also very important,use the whole width even the over side when its safe to do so ;) ......good luck with whatever you decide to do ;)
The PM was just a joke. Twas funny from both sides methinks ;-)
I might have a word with the local bodyshop and see if the dent can be pulled out of the tank easily or not. The fairing is pretty narfed but may be fibreglassable. Maybe this is the time to give the bike a respray, maybe with a funky purple flip if I can afford one.
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Jeez, glad your ok Simon. Your lucky that you didn't buy that 9k ducati, they don't bounce anywhere near as good as a fazer! :D she looks perfectly repairable to me though, I've had worse damage on a bike and got it back on the road. It's the minimal damage to yourself that I bet your grateful for!
I'd be one of the lads to +1 twist of the wrist II. Go through the videos a section at a time, then practice that bit on the road. I only saw the videos for the first time last summer, and even with the millions of miles and years of riding I've done, I still learned quite a bit from it.
Get your machine and your confidence back on the road for the summer, and enjoy it buddy
Sent from my AT300 using Tapatalk 2
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glad you're ok m8 - looks like I got off easy with my spill!
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Listen to your uncle Steve, dont give up because you will regret it ,maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon and for the rest of your life ( if in doubt quote Casablanca ) seriously though dont listen to people who say crap like give it up - the best advice I can give is learn to walk before you run - passing a test is just the beginning the main thing about riding is taking it easy and gain experience , things will become second nature and you will wonder what the problem was and don't worry everyone has doubts about their abilities to do things from time to time ( including motorcycling ) its the human condition mate, so get back in the saddle and look after yourself,cheers Steve
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Listen to your uncle Steve, dont give up because you will regret it ,maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but soon and for the rest of your life ( if in doubt quote Casablanca ) seriously though dont listen to people who say crap like give it up - the best advice I can give is learn to walk before you run - passing a test is just the beginning the main thing about riding is taking it easy and gain experience , things will become second nature and you will wonder what the problem was and don't worry everyone has doubts about their abilities to do things from time to time ( including motorcycling ) its the human condition mate, so get back in the saddle and look after yourself,cheers Steve
Thank you. Appreciated.
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I get a massive sensory overload which I can handle most of the time until I look at a corner and think I'm going too fast for this corner I need to lose speed. In reality I think the speed I was going was fine, I just freaked about the physics and the sharpness of the corner and boom, I'd gone.
The tyres and tread on a motorbike scare me.
The road scares me (gravel, oil, rain, camber, potholes, diesel and huge lumps of concrete).
I need a ton more experience. Given the spills I've had I need more confidence which is a catch 22. My solution is to work on my cornering with a professional until I feel confident.
That's my plan anyway.
I'll get there eventually I hope.
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I know just how you feel that is why I ride like a granny (no offence to grannies) I've only been riding a year since about 20 yrs off I really need to pluck up the courage to look for some help to properly enjoy my bike. Anyway good luck and I'm glad you're okay.
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"...My solution is to work on my cornering with a professional until I feel confident..."
Sounds like a job for David Beckham, he rides bikes and i've heard his cornering skills are excellent :lol
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"...My solution is to work on my cornering with a professional until I feel confident..."
Sounds like a job for David Beckham, he rides bikes and i've heard his cornering skills are excellent :lol
:rollin
reminds me of this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAPKStmYnI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAPKStmYnI)
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In reality I think the speed I was going was fine, I just freaked about the physics and the sharpness of the corner and boom, I'd gone.
What I get from this sentence is that the speed was fine for the bike and it could have made the turn BUT you were going too fast for YOU. Just because the bike can make a turn at a certain speed doesn't mean it should be at the limit all the time. It is good to find where abouts the limit is etc but that is for learning on a racetrack/ training track day like california superbike school.
My advice would be to save your money for a little while though and just slow down overall. If you want to go faster then give yourself time and get miles under your belt and build up the speed slowly so that you don't have those freak out moments. Keep watching the twist of the wrist and any other bike riding info you can and go out and try things SLOWLY and build up the speed SLOWLY. Just because you get a corner right at 30 and your technique is perfect the same corner at 40 or 50 or 60 might be possible for the bike but it will feel very different and your technique might not be able to cope. So if you do the corner 100 times and gradually build up the speed then your technique will grow and adapt as the speed increases.
Take your time and enjoy being out on the bike, keep the speed down everywhere and you'll not end up freaking out when a corner tightens up on you or a car does something unexpected around you or the lights change but you can't stop in time or a kid runs out in front of you... with good technique all these situations can be avoided or dealt with without going rubber side up but if you haven't taken the time to learn the principles of how the bike reacts to inputs then it''ll chuck you off.
Being relaxed is difficult when you get a fright or feel uncomfortable but it is so important, it helps you stay smooth with your inputs to the bike (throttle, lean angle of both bike and rider, pressure on pegs, steering, braking pressure etc). Using smooth inputs won't unsettle the bike and will mean the tyres aren't having to work so hard even if they are leaned right over.
Sorry for the tomb to read.
Take care and take it easy. 8)
Chris
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Simon....Glad your ok, man. Just something to consider and I risk getting scorned for this.....
Keep an open mind about the comandarie advice & support to get back in the saddle.
There is great support here for you to carry on. I personally wouldn't offer advice either way. Although the intentions are good, that advice and support to get back in the saddle has the potential to actually kill you!!.....thats what you need to keep an open mind about.
Only you can determine that decision from the bottom of your soul and with all honesty. I know a lot of people who got into bikes (for whatever reasons) and who have since walked away because they just weren't cut out for it.
My bro-in-law walked away after a few falls just like you into corners. He had professional training and everything before and after his spills. He eventually was open and honest with himself and walked away. He just could not get his head around the fear factor of riding....simple as that. It didn't matter even when he was doing things correctly or how much professional biking help he got. His head was not geared for riding a bike. He is very happy now and have no regrets. So am I and his family because I have a gut feeling if he persisted in trying, he would have been killed eventually.
Biking is meant to be a pleasurable experience. On top of that and I can only speak for myself, I also knew instantly (despite the dangers) that "this was for me". I had a sorta inner grin from day one and nothing wouldn't extinguish it. I guess what i'm trying to say is that you either "have it" or you don't. I also have seen through my experiences that not everyone posses "that feeling" and may not acquire that feeling even after some formal professional training or moral support.
Another example of this is when both my bosses bought "his & hers" bikes with this "Route 66-come-easy rider fantasy" that they had in their heads. They had all the training that money could buy and the best of bikes and gear at their disposal. Both their bikes are gathering dust ever since. They rode locally for a day of too and it just wasn't the experience that they had dreamt up in their heads....far from it. They found it to be a frightful, intimidating and dangerous experience. Again...you either "have it" or you don't IMO....and only you know that All the training, talking and well intentioned back slapping won't give it to you....actually, it might have the opposite effect and have the potential to keep you locked into something that shouldn't be in and it could kill you as I said above.
From what i'm hearing from your quote below.....Your experiences have alarm bells written all over it. Hope I haven't offended you or anyone else with my opinions, and apologies in advance if I have. I am just more concerned about your safety.
"I just freaked about the physics and the sharpness of the corner and boom, I'd gone."
"The tyres and tread on a motorbike scare me."
"The road scares me"
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In reality I think the speed I was going was fine, I just freaked about the physics and the sharpness of the corner and boom, I'd gone.
What I get from this sentence is that the speed was fine for the bike and it could have made the turn BUT you were going too fast for YOU. Just because the bike can make a turn at a certain speed doesn't mean it should be at the limit all the time. It is good to find where abouts the limit is etc but that is for learning on a racetrack/ training track day like california superbike school.
My advice would be to save your money for a little while though and just slow down overall. If you want to go faster then give yourself time and get miles under your belt and build up the speed slowly so that you don't have those freak out moments. Keep watching the twist of the wrist and any other bike riding info you can and go out and try things SLOWLY and build up the speed SLOWLY. Just because you get a corner right at 30 and your technique is perfect the same corner at 40 or 50 or 60 might be possible for the bike but it will feel very different and your technique might not be able to cope. So if you do the corner 100 times and gradually build up the speed then your technique will grow and adapt as the speed increases.
Take your time and enjoy being out on the bike, keep the speed down everywhere and you'll not end up freaking out when a corner tightens up on you or a car does something unexpected around you or the lights change but you can't stop in time or a kid runs out in front of you... with good technique all these situations can be avoided or dealt with without going rubber side up but if you haven't taken the time to learn the principles of how the bike reacts to inputs then it''ll chuck you off.
Being relaxed is difficult when you get a fright or feel uncomfortable but it is so important, it helps you stay smooth with your inputs to the bike (throttle, lean angle of both bike and rider, pressure on pegs, steering, braking pressure etc). Using smooth inputs won't unsettle the bike and will mean the tyres aren't having to work so hard even if they are leaned right over.
Sorry for the tomb to read.
Take care and take it easy. 8)
Chris
Like I said at the start "I said I was a klutz and it was my incompetence. Not much more I can say to completely accept responsibility for my own actions. I think I'll call my local riding school and see what, if anything, they can do to help me with my cornering."
I know it was me. There was no one else's fault it could have been. I don't believe it was the speed either, I'm sure the bike could have got around the corner at that speed, I certainly wasn't going quickly. It was me. My confidence and my lack of experience.
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some good advise there simonm,take no notice of the pm..theres always one .....we have all been in that situation before hence all the advice,after a long winter lay up i do it myself a couple of times untill i get back in my stride,3/4 years ago i did a bike safe refresher course with local council/police all stuff i already new but nice to have a reminder.....road position also very important,use the whole width even the over side when its safe to do so ......good luck with whatever you decide to do
The PM was just a joke. Twas funny from both sides methinks ;-)
I might have a word with the local bodyshop and see if the dent can be pulled out of the tank easily or not. The fairing is pretty narfed but may be fibreglassable. Maybe this is the time to give the bike a respray, maybe with a funky purple flip if I can afford one.
Simon....
Glad your ok, man. Just something to consider and I risk getting scorned for this.....
Keep an open mind about the comandarie advice & support to get back in the saddle.
There is great support here for you to carry on. I personally wouldn't offer advice either way. Although the intentions are good, guys should be careful about giving that advice because it is quite possible also too that you are one of those people who are just not cut out to ride a bike. There are such people. So this well intentioned advice and support to get back in the saddle has the potential to actually kill you!!.....thats what you need to keep an open mind about.
Only you can determine that decision from the bottom of your soul and with all honesty. I know a lot of people who got into bikes (for whatever reasons) and who have since walked away because they just weren't cut out for it.
My bro-in-law walked away after a few falls just like you into corners. He had professional training and everything before and after his spills. He eventually was open and honest with himself and walked away. He just could not get his head around the fear factor of riding....simple as that. It didn't matter even when he was doing things correctly or how much professional biking help he got. His head was not geared for riding a bike. He is very happy now and have no regrets. So am I and his family because I have a gut feeling if he persisted in trying, he would have been killed eventually.
Biking is meant to be a pleasurable experience. On top of that and I can only speak for myself, I also knew instantly (despite the dangers) that "this was for me". I had a sorta inner grin from day one and nothing wouldn't extinguish it. I guess what i'm trying to say is that you either "have it" or you don't. I also have seen through my experiences that not everyone posses "that feeling" and may not acquire that feeling even after some formal professional training or moral support.
Another example of this is when both my bosses bought "his & hers" bikes with this "Route 66-come-easy rider fantasy" that they had in their heads. They had all the training that money could buy and the best of bikes and gear at their disposal. Both their bikes are gathering dust ever since. They rode locally for a day of too and it just wasn't the experience that they had dreamt up in their heads....far from it. They found it to be a frightful, intimidating and dangerous experience. Again...you either "have it" or you don't IMO....and only you know that. All the training, talking and well intentioned back slapping won't give it to you....actually, it might have the opposite effect and have the potential to keep you locked into something that maybe you shouldn't be in and it could kill you.
From what i'm hearing from your quote below and especially the stuff I highlighted in green.....Your experiences have alarm bells written all over it. Hope I haven't offended you or anyone else with my opinions, and apologies in advance if I have. I am just more concerned about your safety.
"I get a massive sensory overload which I can handle most of the time until I look at a corner and think I'm going too fast for this corner I need to lose speed. In reality I think the speed I was going was fine, I just freaked about the physics and the sharpness of the corner and boom, I'd gone.The tyres and tread on a motorbike scare me.The road scares me(gravel, oil, rain, camber, potholes, diesel and huge lumps of concrete)."
some good advise there simonm,take no notice of the pm..theres always one :rolleyes .....we have all been in that situation before hence all the advice,after a long winter lay up i do it myself a couple of times untill i get back in my stride,3/4 years ago i did a bike safe refresher course with local council/police all stuff i already new but nice to have a reminder.....road position also very important,use the whole width even the over side when its safe to do so ;) ......good luck with whatever you decide to do ;)
The PM was just a joke. Twas funny from both sides methinks ;-)
I might have a word with the local bodyshop and see if the dent can be pulled out of the tank easily or not. The fairing is pretty narfed but may be fibreglassable. Maybe this is the time to give the bike a respray, maybe with a funky purple flip if I can afford one.
Simon....
Glad your ok, man. Just something to consider and I risk getting scorned for this.....
Keep an open mind about the comandarie advice & support to get back in the saddle.
There is great support here for you to carry on. I personally wouldn't offer advice either way. Although the intentions are good, guys should be careful about giving that advice because it is quite possible also too that you are one of those people who are just not cut out to ride a bike. There are such people. So this well intentioned advice and support to get back in the saddle has the potential to actually kill you!!.....thats what you need to keep an open mind about.
Only you can determine that decision from the bottom of your soul and with all honesty. I know a lot of people who got into bikes (for whatever reasons) and who have since walked away because they just weren't cut out for it.
My bro-in-law walked away after a few falls just like you into corners. He had professional training and everything before and after his spills. He eventually was open and honest with himself and walked away. He just could not get his head around the fear factor of riding....simple as that. It didn't matter even when he was doing things correctly or how much professional biking help he got. His head was not geared for riding a bike. He is very happy now and have no regrets. So am I and his family because I have a gut feeling if he persisted in trying, he would have been killed eventually.
Biking is meant to be a pleasurable experience. On top of that and I can only speak for myself, I also knew instantly (despite the dangers) that "this was for me". I had a sorta inner grin from day one and nothing wouldn't extinguish it. I guess what i'm trying to say is that you either "have it" or you don't. I also have seen through my experiences that not everyone posses "that feeling" and may not acquire that feeling even after some formal professional training or moral support.
Another example of this is when both my bosses bought "his & hers" bikes with this "Route 66-come-easy rider fantasy" that they had in their heads. They had all the training that money could buy and the best of bikes and gear at their disposal. Both their bikes are gathering dust ever since. They rode locally for a day of too and it just wasn't the experience that they had dreamt up in their heads....far from it. They found it to be a frightful, intimidating and dangerous experience. Again...you either "have it" or you don't IMO....and only you know that. All the training, talking and well intentioned back slapping won't give it to you....actually, it might have the opposite effect and have the potential to keep you locked into something that maybe you shouldn't be in and it could kill you.
From what i'm hearing from your quote below and especially the stuff I highlighted in green.....Your experiences have alarm bells written all over it. Hope I haven't offended you or anyone else with my opinions, and apologies in advance if I have. I am just more concerned about your safety.
"I get a massive sensory overload which I can handle most of the time until I look at a corner and think I'm going too fast for this corner I need to lose speed. In reality I think the speed I was going was fine, I just freaked about the physics and the sharpness of the corner and boom, I'd gone.The tyres and tread on a motorbike scare me.The road scares me(gravel, oil, rain, camber, potholes, diesel and huge lumps of concrete)."
I have that grin, of course I do. The second you do you CBT you know if you like riding or not. If you're not scared of the bike and the tarmac you're not human.
Have you ever looked at the width of the wheels on an BMW M3 ? It has 4 of them. Forgive me if I'm a newb who isn't entirely confident of 2 tyres on a motorbike that probably has more BHP per tonne than an M3.
I appreciate your comments but I'm old enough to know if something is beyond my capabilities or not and riding a bike is not beyond them. I need experience, practise, tuition and confidence (not too much of the last one). End of story.
Thanks for the input.
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Simon wrote:
I appreciate your comments but I'm old enough to know if something is beyond my capabilities or not and riding a bike is not beyond them.
Fair enuff...but I can't help it if I just didn't pick up on your dogged determination to succeed in your comment below, especially the bit in red....
"I'm a newb and I've come off twice in three months. Starting to wonder if it's a sign."
....I wish you well and safe riding.
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stick to your own pace, dont ride with anyone else and stay off the back brake! i only use the front brake, bad habit i know. but using the back on a bend is asking for trouble. after i passes my test centuries ago, i only used the back. gradually, and like yourself, several offs, i realised that i should start using mainly the front. still had a few offs since though, so youre in good company.
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Pleased you where ok after the crash..
You need to relax bud, don't put too much pressure on yourself to go fast..
Speed will come with time..
Remember, no matter what your head says, bikes ARE built for this kind of thing..
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Just a thought but maybe your not reading the road far enough ahead??
Meaning you are carrying too much speed when approaching corners, which is scary..
On the approach to a corner I like to have everything done, braking , gears and positioning, so all I have to worry about is when to flick it in and when to roll the throttle on..
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stick to your own pace, dont ride with anyone else and stay off the back brake! i only use the front brake, bad habit i know. but using the back on a bend is asking for trouble. after i passes my test centuries ago, i only used the back. gradually, and like yourself, several offs, i realised that i should start using mainly the front. still had a few offs since though, so youre in good company.
Why do you say this bud?
On the approach to a corner I use BOTH brakes, I DONT USE ANY BRAKES ONCE CORNERING but if I had to, it would be gently with the back brake as it overloads the front tyre less...
Infact once cornering the front tyre is heavily loaded already and using the front brake on top of this is very bad advice mate..
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I admire packies honesty, perhaps not what you,me or anyone wants to read but still very honest & the other half of the tale none the less. :evil :evil :evil ;)
It's a hot topic this one and theres no doubt lots on here that can learn from it as we learn from our own & others mistakes.
Not that 2 wrongs make a right but regards the whole death thing, it is still a risk we take every day in our supposedly safe cars, bikes are deemed dangerous & yes they are less forgiving but im sure theres lots of cases where a bike has escaped from a near miss by virtue of its small size or nimble handling where a car would have crashed.Actually theres numerous thousands of folk out there driving cars every day that probably shouldnt be.Folk that would never dream of further training & arent remotely interested in skills,techniques or safety.you have completed extra training by doing your bike test which is very thorough & you've been deemed passworthy by by a biker.Granted that's only the beggining but you seem keen to progress & you at least admit failings that lots of others keep to themselves whilst pretending they know what they're doing.
If you did your test recently then you did extensive slow speed stuff,slaloms,figure of eights, the swerve test etc, you may not be as good as some seasoned bikers at cornering but you may be far better at slow speed control that they have rarely if ever formally practiced.Still all ifs buts and maybes but im keeping positive & keeping that glass half full whilst you get over the crash. :)
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stick to your own pace, dont ride with anyone else and stay off the back brake! i only use the front brake, bad habit i know. but using the back on a bend is asking for trouble. after i passes my test centuries ago, i only used the back. gradually, and like yourself, several offs, i realised that i should start using mainly the front. still had a few offs since though, so youre in good company.
Why do you say this bud?
On the approach to a corner I use BOTH brakes, I DONT USE ANY BRAKES ONCE CORNERING but if I had to, it would be gently with the back brake as it overloads the front tyre less...
Infact once cornering the front tyre is heavily loaded already and using the front brake on top of this is very bad advice mate..
:agree wezdavo - that from caretaker is dreadful advice. He even admits himself it's a bad habit!!!!
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Glad your ok, know how you feel with being nervous, had a couple of near misses myself last year in my first full year on a bike. Thing that came to mind reading you post was slow down and take your time. Approach and plan each bend every time, better slow in and accelerate out rather than fast in and fall off.
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Seems like you have the right attitude with regards to doing the training and learning from your accident Simon so keep the head up. Most people will come off at some stage and everyone has had a moment where the survival instints have taken over so don't beat yourself up about it too much. Training and experience helps to keep you calm when things go wrong so do the training and maybe a track day and that will help you control those survival instincts better. Riding on the road is mostly about getting back in one piece rather than pushing your limits or going quick so maybe you need to change your riding style a bit. I've heard a lot of track riders don't ride on the road because they consider it too dangerous. Look at Lorenzo, he only got his road license last year I think.
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Lorenzo%20prepares%20for%20bike%20license%20test (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Lorenzo%20prepares%20for%20bike%20license%20test)
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Glad you are ok,,
slow in ,maybe down a gear or two, power on in the corner, full power on the exit,,corners are best if powered out of.
Billy
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i admit it is bad advice to use any brakes on a bend, but i get everything done before cornering which is wot i should have said! i do go through a lot of front brake discs though!!
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Glad you're okay Simon, hope the bike gets better soon too. I ride almost every day in all but ice and have yet to have my first proper off and dread the thought to be honest but try my best to not let it affect how I ride. You mentioned that you're doing a bikesafe course, I did one last year with my dad and thought it was excellent so that's a good place to start building your confidence back up.
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I admire packies honesty, perhaps not what you,me or anyone wants to read but still very honest & the other half of the tale none the less. :evil :evil :evil ;)
...and that's all I was offering, just a bit of honesty and just to make people aware including Simon that there is more to this than the importance of him just trying to ride a bike.
This might again sound harsh, but I just don't "buy it" that the guy is blaming his experiences on being a newbie. Weather I am driving 5 minutes as a newbie or 50 years as an experienced driver, it is my responsibility not just morally but by law to be competent, confident, and in control of my machine at all times on the road. This is not just about my own safety. This is also about expressing my safety towards you and every other road users and pedestrians. If my bike went out of control and mowed down a toddler on that corner, I don't think a "newbie excuse" will have much comfort to his parents or my conscience....nor will it hold up in court of law. This is the reality.
So it is my responsibility at the very first sign of problems "within me" to haul my arse off the road weather I am a newbie or an experienced driver. If I feel that i'm going to be a danger to myself or others, I need to get off the road and do what I need to do to sort out those problems. Personally, I think Simon had 2 spills too many. This wasn't 2 spills brought on by other factors out of his control, this was 2 spills brought on by not being in control of his vehicle on both occasions by not being properly ready for being on the road. Pride, stubborness and persistence may be seen as good traits by some...but actually could be quite a dangerous liability IMO.
Anyway, I certainly wasn't telling Simon or anyone here what to do about his situation or to walk away from biking. I made that quite clear in my post. I was just sharing my experiences and opinions. If people don't like them, then they have the free will to ignore them.
But I have to thank Simon too for his honesty in posting here because it wasn't easy. A lot of good things have come from this thread. There has been some serious helpful and informative stuff on this thread like the two videos that were posted which will help many including myself. I like to think that I have contributed with some informative and honest stuff to this thread too. So this thread has been very worth while overall.
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Hi Simon, glad you're OK, we've all been there :fish
Soft back braking is fine for bends, it can take the edge off the speed if you realise you are in too fast, but the emphasis is on soft. I've been doing it for 40 years :D But don't panic and don't get anywhere near locking the rear wheel. Softly softly.
Front braking is bad for bends. you will pogo through it, and the bike will try to stand upright, cancelling out your lean.
Looking at the picture though begs another question. What gear where you in? Too high a gear and you have no engine braking to play with. In a lower gear, if you feel you are entering the bend too fast you can roll back the throttle and the bike will slow itself down, saving the need for any braking at all. Too high a gear and the bike will just carry on at its own momentum, so braking (or just pointing and hoping) are you only options.
That looks like a 3rd or 4th gear bend to me, 6th is not the only option :)
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I'm sure it's down to experience. Lack thereof. The problem is that now I've had two tumbles my confidence is kinda shot. I'll do loads of sharp bends and stuff perfectly happy then I'll get to a corner, even at low speed, and just freak that there is some gravel or grit there. In the time it takes for me to get my composure back it's too late. It is, to me, important to note that both of my tumbles have been at low speed, we're talking 5-10 mph so hopefully some expert tuition will help me to handle these things.
I know people are trying to help but I need biking. My life is low, I'm depressed, riding makes me happy. With a 3 year old boy and a 3 week old boy I need to make sure that I practise on a track or something to rebuild my confidence but safely. Expert tuition may be an answer but I don't like the idea of learning on the road (although I know that is where most of the learning comes from)
I don't ride like a madman, I am generally safe, considerate and have foresight, forward thinking etc. I just don't have the experience or confidence imo.
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Here's an idea. If it's gravel that you're worried about why not buy a cheap scrambler or rent one and do a bit of off road training. You'd get a feel for the bike sliding around under you
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If you are having issues with slow corners then I would suggest that track riding may not be of much help in regard to this - don't get me wrong, I'm sure track days are awesome and you'd really enjoy it and learn a lot, but probably nothing towards going slow.
My advice would be to take your bike to the local supermarket car park when no-one is around and start doing chicanes and loops around the lamp posts at low speed to get a feel for the bikes balance at low speed. Someone did mention Twist Of The Wrist II as well which has a huge amount of information and is aimed at being a "Cornering Bible". Not all of it is relevant - the latter half is more about track riding in my opinion. But the information about breaking around corners, throttle control and counter-steering were hugely helpful for me to understand the forces at play and how to control my bike. Remembering how to counter-steer properly whilst going a little too fast in a corner has helped me on several occasions :)
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I agree with his dudeness, I started on a chinese supermoto bike with crappy nylon tyres and it used to slide about like a bastard if I wasn't careful especially as the brakes were quite good in comparison to the tyres. It was actually quite manageable though I even had a real nasty one on ice once and christ knows how but I saved it. Granted it was half the weight of the fazer but as I have said in another thread one of my forks is knackered and I feel the back end slide in corners on occasion as a result, it gives you the willies but I am used to a bit of slide in corners so have faith in the tyres which are excellent on this bike. As someone has stated though, everybody has different levels of feel for vehicles but still having some past experience with small slides can be helpful. Tensing up like you describe is NOT a good idea. Is the fazer your first bike?
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I do sympathise with you, I dropped mine a few weeks ago. Purely my fault. Had to change line whilst braking and lost the front on a wet drain cover. Thankfully crash bung took the worst but wrecked the nose cone.
I got away with badly sprained wrist and badly bruised knee.
The important thing is to know what you did wrong but also to know what you should have done.
Then armed with that info you can practice better techniques.
When I did my test I only had half day with instructor on the way to the test.after a while of him following me he kept telling me I was rushing things and trying to do too much at once? Looking, ,gear change, braking.
I didn't get what he meant until he made me follow him. And I realised how much in advance you can actually anticipate and react accordingly. The outcome is that you are already doing the right thing in the right place.
I dont think you need a mass of tuition but maybe half day following and then assessed by a instructor.
Good luck getting back in the saddle.
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Sorry to hear about your off :(
There's some very good advice about cornering and bike control in this document (http://www.fema-online.eu/uploads/documents/vehicle%20aspects/Full%20Control_low%20res.pdf) as well as some very helpful exercises to practice your manoeuvring.
After something like this your confidence is going to take a knock, but as long as you learn what you did wrong, you can apply that to your riding in the future and you'll be all the better for it. Just recently I was taking a street corner near where I live and remembered that when I started riding I used to have all sorts of problems getting a smooth turn around it, but now I cruised around it with nary a worry, so just keep practicing, stay in your comfort zone until you feel confident and you'll soon be out there having fun again :)
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The last few answers have really helped me. Thanks for the input.
The fazer is my first bike. I understand it's quite heavy and powerful as a first bike but it did seem like a good choice and I still don't regret it. I have clocked up 700 miles or so since I passed my test in Jan but I definitely need to do some low speed. Manoeuvring in a car park, read up on cornering, watch twist of the wrist all the way through and get some pro guidance too.
Thanks lads :D
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The last few answers have really helped me. Thanks for the input.
The fazer is my first bike. I understand it's quite heavy and powerful as a first bike but it did seem like a good choice and I still don't regret it. I have clocked up 700 miles or so since I passed my test in Jan but I definitely need to do some low speed. Manoeuvring in a car park, read up on cornering, watch twist of the wrist all the way through and get some pro guidance too.
Thanks lads :D
Glad you're smiling simon,
out of curiosity, if you passed in Jan then did you do the Mod1/Mod 2, how did you get on with all the slow stuff?, i mean you passed it, figure of 8,swerve test, u turn etc.did you find it easy in the end? if so then maybe you could approach the same school,(or a different one) to ask if you can spend half a day with them on your Fazer to alleviate a few of your fears, heck leave the fairing all busted up & stuff so you're not worrying about a slow speed spill too much in that controlled environment or damaging a bike thats only just been repaired.
I still practice the odd u turns without putting my feet down even though its easy to get lazy & not bother & i quite fancy going somewhere to do like a mini obstacle course just for fun really & learn the Fazers characteristics
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First off simonm i,m very glad your o.k,came off my bike 4 weeks ago,wrote the bike off and broken collar bone,but it,s not put me off (already got me new bike ready for me ).I have seen a lot of people saying watch twist of the wrist,now yes it is a very good video to watch but i think as a newish rider if you do watch that video your head would just have to much info there to even go round a corner.I mean yes we all know about counter steering we,ve done it since riding a push bike but doing 30mph round a bend while thinking what Code explained would be just too much.Do it at your own pace and if that means slowing the cagers down a tad while going round a corner then sod them.And yes i watched twist of the wrist,next day came up to the first roundabout thinking what he had explained and nearly came to a stop :) .
Everyone at their own pace.
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Best advice I can offer is to focus on only one or two key aspects of Twist of the Wrist at a time. Learn how to counter-steer properly and how to manage your throttle (steadily roll it on throughout the entirety of the bend). These two are relatively easy to remember and work on and are likely to offer the best improvements initially :) As I mentioned before, a lot of the second half of the video is more for track riding imo where you want to start shaving tenths of a second off your lap times.
I need to work on my slow speed manoeuvring as I lost my damn balance on Sunday trying to do a U-turn and dropped the bike :( Mind you, I think it was probably an absolutely hilarious spectacle to watch when it happened and luckily the only new damage was a few minor marks on the link pipe. The fairings were already cracked from the previous owners... still, my pride was hurt as this was my first drop in the 18 months since I passed :( I still blame the freezing cold making my feet numb though haha
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Best advice I can offer is to focus on only one or two key aspects of Twist of the Wrist at a time. Learn how to counter-steer properly and how to manage your throttle (steadily roll it on throughout the entirety of the bend). These two are relatively easy to remember and work on and are likely to offer the best improvements initially :) As I mentioned before, a lot of the second half of the video is more for track riding imo where you want to start shaving tenths of a second off your lap times.
I need to work on my slow speed manoeuvring as I lost my damn balance on Sunday trying to do a U-turn and dropped the bike :( Mind you, I think it was probably an absolutely hilarious spectacle to watch when it happened and luckily the only new damage was a few minor marks on the link pipe. The fairings were already cracked from the previous owners... still, my pride was hurt as this was my first drop in the 18 months since I passed :( I still blame the freezing cold making my feet numb though haha
Thanks for making me grin. :lol
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Thanks Adrian and noggythenog too :-)
I think I'll give twist of the wrist a viewing this morning and go do some slow maneuvering later on. I'm not going to bother getting the bike repaired beyond getting the cracks in line and using a soldering iron to glue them back together. I may have a word with a local body shop and see if the fuel tank can be pushed put again cheaply but I'd not its not the end of the world and it's the reason I only bought a 1400 quid bike in the first place.
Sorry to hear about your collar bone, I have a stonking bruise on my hand and my shoulders and legs still ache but I'm glad nothing was broken.
Adrian, you're an inspiration :)
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Best advice I can offer is to focus on only one or two key aspects of Twist of the Wrist at a time. Learn how to counter-steer properly and how to manage your throttle (steadily roll it on throughout the entirety of the bend). These two are relatively easy to remember and work on and are likely to offer the best improvements initially :) As I mentioned before, a lot of the second half of the video is more for track riding imo where you want to start shaving tenths of a second off your lap times.
I need to work on my slow speed manoeuvring as I lost my damn balance on Sunday trying to do a U-turn and dropped the bike :( Mind you, I think it was probably an absolutely hilarious spectacle to watch when it happened and luckily the only new damage was a few minor marks on the link pipe. The fairings were already cracked from the previous owners... still, my pride was hurt as this was my first drop in the 18 months since I passed :( I still blame the freezing cold making my feet numb though haha
Thanks for making me grin. :lol
You are more than welcome, we all do idiotic things but the way I fell over, even thinking back on it makes me chuckle as it was insanely funny. I sort of hopped a bit, slipped went over with legs up in the air and everything haha. No bugger stopped to help me mind, but I was back on the bike and off again after a quick look around to make sure nothing was totally buggered. Bike performed well throughout the rest of the day and I soon got my confidence back and was chasing down the mad men on their litre bikes ;)
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Best advice I can offer is to focus on only one or two key aspects of Twist of the Wrist at a time. Learn how to counter-steer properly and how to manage your throttle (steadily roll it on throughout the entirety of the bend). These two are relatively easy to remember and work on and are likely to offer the best improvements initially :) As I mentioned before, a lot of the second half of the video is more for track riding imo where you want to start shaving tenths of a second off your lap times.
I need to work on my slow speed manoeuvring as I lost my damn balance on Sunday trying to do a U-turn and dropped the bike :( Mind you, I think it was probably an absolutely hilarious spectacle to watch when it happened and luckily the only new damage was a few minor marks on the link pipe. The fairings were already cracked from the previous owners... still, my pride was hurt as this was my first drop in the 18 months since I passed :( I still blame the freezing cold making my feet numb though haha
Thanks for making me grin. :lol
You are more than welcome, we all do idiotic things but the way I fell over, even thinking back on it makes me chuckle as it was insanely funny. I sort of hopped a bit, slipped went over with legs up in the air and everything haha. No bugger stopped to help me mind, but I was back on the bike and off again after a quick look around to make sure nothing was totally buggered. Bike performed well throughout the rest of the day and I soon got my confidence back and was chasing down the mad men on their litre bikes ;)
I think I need to look at my gear linkage as it may be bent. It was all a little weird riding the bike afterwards, the gear changes were not normal. I might do that in the morn before I watch the twist of the wrist.
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hey! bad times mate but dont get too down hearted......
i fell off mine twice in my 1st month of riding...
im 2years in now and (touch wood) havent had another bash since.....
My mrs crashed her bike the other day on her 1st ever ride out after passing her CBT and just carried on....
Keep your chin up, believe in yourself and your bike and you'll feel better....
hope bikes better now...!
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hey! bad times mate but dont get too down hearted......
i fell off mine twice in my 1st month of riding...
im 2years in now and (touch wood) havent had another bash since.....
My mrs crashed her bike the other day on her 1st ever ride out after passing her CBT and just carried on....
Keep your chin up, believe in yourself and your bike and you'll feel better....
hope bikes better now...!
Thanks Ton13 :D
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hey! bad times mate but dont get too down hearted......
i fell off mine twice in my 1st month of riding...
im 2years in now and (touch wood) havent had another bash since.....
My mrs crashed her bike the other day on her 1st ever ride out after passing her CBT and just carried on....
Keep your chin up, believe in yourself and your bike and you'll feel better....
hope bikes better now...!
Thanks Ton13 :D
Lol no probs!
how is the bike now? just read through some of the replys and i definately agree with learning to counter steer etc... it took me ages and im still not as quick and fearless as the others i ride with.... luckily for me my friend used to race and takes brilliant lines when riding so i can follow him.... if he can do it then i know it can be done...!
:D
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hey! bad times mate but dont get too down hearted......
i fell off mine twice in my 1st month of riding...
im 2years in now and (touch wood) havent had another bash since.....
My mrs crashed her bike the other day on her 1st ever ride out after passing her CBT and just carried on....
Keep your chin up, believe in yourself and your bike and you'll feel better....
hope bikes better now...!
Thanks Ton13 :D
Lol no probs!
how is the bike now? just read through some of the replys and i definately agree with learning to counter steer etc... it took me ages and im still not as quick and fearless as the others i ride with.... luckily for me my friend used to race and takes brilliant lines when riding so i can follow him.... if he can do it then i know it can be done...!
:D
The bike isn't too serious but not pretty. I know about counter steering etc,I just need practise so I don't freeze up and have confidence in the bike and the tyres and the road.
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hey! bad times mate but dont get too down hearted......
i fell off mine twice in my 1st month of riding...
im 2years in now and (touch wood) havent had another bash since.....
My mrs crashed her bike the other day on her 1st ever ride out after passing her CBT and just carried on....
Keep your chin up, believe in yourself and your bike and you'll feel better....
hope bikes better now...!
Thanks Ton13 :D
Lol no probs!
how is the bike now? just read through some of the replys and i definately agree with learning to counter steer etc... it took me ages and im still not as quick and fearless as the others i ride with.... luckily for me my friend used to race and takes brilliant lines when riding so i can follow him.... if he can do it then i know it can be done...!
:D
The bike isn't too serious but not pretty. I know about counter steering etc,I just need practise so I don't freeze up and have confidence in the bike and the tyres and the road.
Funny you should mention tyres, as i was gonna say before that having faith in tyres is so important that they can affect the way you ride.
Even one small slip is one too many in my opinion.
I've used different brands of tyres on front and back since i've had the bike and through sheer luck they have worked perfectly together so i have stuck with them throughout. (Metzeler M1 front, Bridgestone BT21 rear). That combo may not be everyone's cup of tea but for my way of riding i've found them to be faultless, and completely trustworthy, so i've had absolutely no desire to fix what ain't broke.
Although i don't believe in being totally mugged off with certain tyre prices, i also don't believe in scrimping on them either because they are the contact between you and the road and possibly the most important thing in keeping you upright.
You've gotta remember that there's probably less area than the palm of your hand of rubber touching the road, and that's got to stop you, and the weight of the bike at high speed. We don't have the luxury of 4 wide flat tyres like cars do, so bike tyres are severely overworked in comparison.
You can get bargains if you shop around, my last 2 front tyres i bought together were on sale from M&P for £35 each, but more importantly read reviews for different types of tyre. There are several sites that give good, honest opinions from bikers own experiences, as well as this forum if you do a search, but take into account the way people describe the way they're riding as well. Obviously some people can ride quite aggressively whereas others may just use the bike for work so certain areas simply may not apply to you. The idea of me getting my knee down on the way to work is not only quite a ludicrous thought, but also totally unnecessary!
Once you have that confidence behind your tyres then it can ultimately change the way you ride, so can only add to a better riding experience. :)