ok so after searching the forum today some old posts talk about using 15w oil in the front end for a better feel
HOWEVER
no one seems to say what they have settings at for preload, compression, rebound
anyone out there using the 15w oil with altered settings (mcn settings go out the window with thicker oil)
forget town riding as i will live with whatever it is - i want it set for when i ride hard and fast so anything as a starting point on settings will be an improvement to its current state (oil change is needed so will do it as soon as oil is here)
NEVER heard of forks locking up, EVER?
The adjusters on top of the forks were useless when i had them, i now have earlier model forks that don't have them and they've been fine for me, although admittedly i'm not normally chucking the bike about at high speed but if that's what you're intending to do then you need to do more research.
15w oil most definitely firms up the front end enough to give it a much more controlled feeling, and i would certainly recommend it over 10w. Some people have even gone a bit heavier by mixing oils but i think that would be a game of luck and chance until you got it right.
And obviously your own weight, top box, luggage and the odd passenger can change matters too.
If you're a lightweight carrying none of the above then you may find standard oil works just fine, but i would say take a punt and go for the 15w as i personally don't think you'll be disappointed.
On that note I am going to shut the fuck up.
All I am/was trying to do was to be helpful and offer some advice and thoughts on a phenomena that can and does happen, now if you think it's a crock of shit fine.
Good luck to all who are trying to understand and improve their suspension on a budget bike with Damper Rod forks.
tommyardin has left the building, Oh! hello Elvis let me get that door for you mate.
NEVER heard of forks locking up, EVER?
The adjusters on top of the forks were useless when i had them, i now have earlier model forks that don't have them and they've been fine for me, although admittedly i'm not normally chucking the bike about at high speed but if that's what you're intending to do then you need to do more research.
15w oil most definitely firms up the front end enough to give it a much more controlled feeling, and i would certainly recommend it over 10w. Some people have even gone a bit heavier by mixing oils but i think that would be a game of luck and chance until you got it right.
And obviously your own weight, top box, luggage and the odd passenger can change matters too.
If you're a lightweight carrying none of the above then you may find standard oil works just fine, but i would say take a punt and go for the 15w as i personally don't think you'll be disappointed.
That is probably because you have the correct viscosity oil in them, or do not ride hard.
I agree totally the pre-load adjuster a next to useless.
Can you not see though if you have a fluid that is to thick to pass through a certain size hole quick enough when being forced it will slow the compression down to the point of locking, especially if more force is added rapidly as in hitting a fast bump on fork compression, it ain't rocket science.
Do a search on the internet about Hydro Lock how and why it happens, it can happen inside an internal combustion engine just the same, where hyrdo lock can occur in high compression engines, it can bend con rods and fuck engines.
It's Ok that some don't know about it, as it usually does not effect people, but that does not mean it does not happen or exist, ask the poor sod with the bent conrods and/or knackered crankshaft, or the poor foccer that came off his motorbike when cornering hard because because something weird happened to his front end when he hit a bump, it's un-explainable I just don't know what happened.
Actually I am as bald as a coot so the retaining of my hair follicles does not come into the equation.
Using CAPITAL LETTERS in text indicates that someone is shouting which often means that someone passionately disagrees with something that is done or said.
If one passionately disagrees with something that has been said it seems to me you are either saying they are wrong or saying they are mistaken or worse case scenario calling them a liar.
Oh! Hang on I am not bald I still have my crash helmet on.
:finger Darrsi :finger
STOP SHOUTING PUNK WE ARE NOT DEAF
STOP SHOUTING PUNK WE ARE NOT DEAF
Actually, the words Honest and Opinion should not go together.
Who is to say anyone's Opinion is Honest as it is just an Opinion, a Humble Opinion is good to go. and of course has value.
But that is all it is, an Opinion, and it is not absolute in any way, therefore should not be called Honest.
Saying my Honest Opinion is claiming the the moral high ground and saying I am right, but lets not get pedantic about words. :lol
Actually, the words Honest and Opinion should not go together.
Who is to say anyone's Opinion is Honest as it is just an Opinion, a Humble Opinion is good to go. and of course has value.
But that is all it is, an Opinion, and it is not absolute in any way, therefore should not be called Honest.
Saying my Honest Opinion is claiming the the moral high ground and saying I am right, but lets not get pedantic about words. :lol
Bit rude of me, sorry about that, but
Actually, the words Honest and Opinion should not go together.
Who is to say anyone's Opinion is Honest as it is just an Opinion, a Humble Opinion is good to go. and of course has value.
But that is all it is, an Opinion, and it is not absolute in any way, therefore should not be called Honest.
Saying my Honest Opinion is claiming the the moral high ground and saying I am right, but lets not get pedantic about words. :lol
Hi
Re the fork mod- you mentioned the linear rate spring would be a pretty decent improvement on the original springs- can you send a link to a suitable model of spring for this? I am 75kg in my birthday suit so probably 85kg or so loaded up with gear.
The other thing is to make sure that these springs are compatible with the YSS emulators that MandP sell so if I want to go down that route in the future then I can!
Thanks in advance!
Think we need a rename on this thread ""Tommy v darrsi The bitch off"" :lol
Think we need a rename on this thread ""Tommy v darrsi The bitch off"" :lol
15w going in my forks next weekend and hoping to get linear springs matched to my weight when I have the funds,
When changing springs will the damper rods be ok or should I do the emulator mod at same time ?
FFS darrsi leave it mate, this could go on and on you bitch me I bitch you back and have a pop at everything each other says, and it never ends.
But I will just add, as stated earlier if it is an Opinion it is neither honest or dishonest, it can be a genuine Opinion, a firmly held Opinion, or humble Opinion, but that does not make it honest or right, but something that someone has thought through and chosen to believe, and a lot of us believe a lot of stuff that just is not true.
Under that tough exterior of yours I believe that there is a genuine kind hearted, thoughtful man.
But then I rethink the last statement above about us believing stuff that isn't true, and come to a firmly held Opinion that you are just a twat. :eek
FFS darrsi leave it mate, this could go on and on you bitch me I bitch you back and have a pop at everything each other says, and it never ends.
But I will just add, as stated earlier if it is an Opinion it is neither honest or dishonest, it can be a genuine Opinion, a firmly held Opinion, or humble Opinion, but that does not make it honest or right, but something that someone has thought through and chosen to believe, and a lot of us believe a lot of stuff that just is not true.
Under that tough exterior of yours I believe that there is a genuine kind hearted, thoughtful man.
But then I rethink the last statement above about us believing stuff that isn't true, and come to a firmly held Opinion that you are just a twat. :eek
Not a native English speaker, but the dictionary says that an opinion can be honest:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/honest (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/honest)
Honest as saying what you really do think (believe). My honest opinion is that the Earth is not flat, but I've never traveled a full circle so I could be wrong. Possibly, but not probably.
As for the topic, I agree with your first post about using the correct rate (best not progressive) springs, appropriate valves and oil viscosity.
I've put some steel inserts between the preload adjusters and FZS's standard springs, and added some more viscous oil, getting a bit better handling on the road and the track. At least for my taste. It's far from an optimal, but a rather cheap fix (or "fix", depending on one's criteria).
I also agree that using an oil that is (way) too viscous can cause problems.
P.S. If you're that much into Darrsi, why not ask her for a drink, that's what grown ups do. :rollin
Thank you Slanlinar for your words of wisdom, your not darrsi's brother of dad are you????? just asking. (Let me see if I can get that little red light flashing)
Is an opinion the same as a choice then, I can choose not to like something and then give an opinion on it but is not absolute or the truth in anyway, it is just an Opinion that belongs to me, and I may strongly hold to it, but that does not make it fact or the truth.
Anyway thank you Slaninar for adding your Opinion, I feel you may have the same effect as a stick wiggling about in a hornets nest, but you may not agree, but that is your Op...............
Here we go again.
PS: I agree about the world being flat if it was round like some are saying the water would all run off, I don't know! Some people have not thought that one through. :lol
WTF IS HAPPENING
all i asked was about some oil weight in forks then it turned into changing springs which is fair and on subject
then it turned into the whole philosophical argument of the meaning of opinion
and then its turns into gearing systems for the lycra brigade
- FUCK IT im putting 15w in tommorow and will let you know if its a bit too harsh
might even put the 14t sprocket on and go be a hooligan down my country roads
WTF IS HAPPENING
all i asked was about some oil weight in forks then it turned into changing springs which is fair and on subject
then it turned into the whole philosophical argument of the meaning of opinion
and then its turns into gearing systems for the lycra brigade
- FUCK IT im putting 15w in tommorow and will let you know if its a bit too harsh
might even put the 14t sprocket on and go be a hooligan down my country roads
I feel a bit left out and missing a fight. My honest opinion is that you must all be fat arses because I find the forks just perfect for my weight the way they came out of the factory. BUT at 20 years I can understand the springs have had some wear but would the oil of lost any of its original properties.
Hmm I see, for me it would defiantly be OEM because if there has been a degradation then its been slow and I have not noticed it so wouldn't want to over do the the difference by using 15w. I am Only at 20k miles though.I feel a bit left out and missing a fight. My honest opinion is that you must all be fat arses because I find the forks just perfect for my weight the way they came out of the factory. BUT at 20 years I can understand the springs have had some wear but would the oil of lost any of its original properties.
Think you're due a change mate. :lol
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-to/oil-change-intervals-your-suspension-street-savvy (https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-to/oil-change-intervals-your-suspension-street-savvy)
not as big a difference from 10 to 15 weight oil i changed mine and tbh all it done was firm it up a bit
WTF IS HAPPENING
all i asked was about some oil weight in forks then it turned into changing springs which is fair and on subject
then it turned into the whole philosophical argument of the meaning of opinion
and then its turns into gearing systems for the lycra brigade
- FUCK IT im putting 15w in tommorow and will let you know if its a bit too harsh
might even put the 14t sprocket on and go be a hooligan down my country roads
Yep.Spring out and fork compressed.
Empty compressed legs, with the exception of the damper rods, they are in place.
(Stanchion pushed down inside the bottom sliders)
One thing to watch out for is that it is possible for the stanchions to jam right down at the bottom of the sliders if you bang them down or even allow them to drop down inside under there own weight, they can be a bugger to shift, I had to hold one leg clear of the ground and whack it several blows with a leather mallet on the caliper mounting lugs to free it.
also just read this on a pyramid parts advert
RSF 7.5' is the new term for 'SAE 10'
how that works i dont know, but could lead to some confusion
im loving the new oil - when my good camera gets back tomorrow i will show what the old oil had turned intoOhhhhhhhhhh great thats another thing I have got to do now then before I ride - Chain and sprockets soon, - including a swing arm strip and re lube (using a continuous chain ) I don't ride enough now as it is -- very tempted to by something new to cut out all the maintenance although I do get great satisfaction from doing my own maintenance it has to be said.
i have left it in a jar to let it settle and its some what unnerving - god knows how old it was
i have a scotoiler that came with the bike but i took it off instantly - they are easily forgot to be topped up
but what is an extra 10 mins to properly clean and lube your chain when you wash it (scotoilers dont clean)
my bikes are misused, mistreated and generally given a hard time but when it comes to maintenance they are looked after
forget buying a scotoiler and just buy a paddock stand as it far more usefull for everything
when you say you are using a continuous chain do you mean one that is riveted - i should hope so as split link chains shouldnt be used on bikes this size (the previous owner fitted one and it didnt end well for me but could have been worse if it flung the link 10 mins earlier)
i have a scotoiler that came with the bike but i took it off instantly - they are easily forgot to be topped up
but what is an extra 10 mins to properly clean and lube your chain when you wash it (scotoilers dont clean)
my bikes are misused, mistreated and generally given a hard time but when it comes to maintenance they are looked after
forget buying a scotoiler and just buy a paddock stand as it far more usefull for everything
when you say you are using a continuous chain do you mean one that is riveted - i should hope so as split link chains shouldnt be used on bikes this size (the previous owner fitted one and it didnt end well for me but could have been worse if it flung the link 10 mins earlier)
im loving the new oil - when my good camera gets back tomorrow i will show what the old oil had turned intoOhhhhhhhhhh great thats another thing I have got to do now then before I ride - Chain and sprockets soon, - including a swing arm strip and re lube (using a continuous chain ) I don't ride enough now as it is -- very tempted to by something new to cut out all the maintenance although I do get great satisfaction from doing my own maintenance it has to be said.
i have left it in a jar to let it settle and its some what unnerving - god knows how old it was
im loving the new oil - when my good camera gets back tomorrow i will show what the old oil had turned into
i have left it in a jar to let it settle and its some what unnerving - god knows how old it was
Yes I meant a continuous chain, thank you.im loving the new oil - when my good camera gets back tomorrow i will show what the old oil had turned intoOhhhhhhhhhh great thats another thing I have got to do now then before I ride - Chain and sprockets soon, - including a swing arm strip and re lube (using a continuous chain ) I don't ride enough now as it is -- very tempted to by something new to cut out all the maintenance although I do get great satisfaction from doing my own maintenance it has to be said.
i have left it in a jar to let it settle and its some what unnerving - god knows how old it was
I've been saying this is a simple and inexpensive improvement for years, why are you suddenly convinced now? :lol
I'm with Slaninar, Scottoiler all the way. It includes a cleaning fluid and chains last 3+ times as long, that's proven. The container holds enough oil for at least 500 miles, so how can you forget to top it up? Would you forget to check tyre pressures? Better Scottoil than that sticky dirt magnet stuff that comes out of cans.
Yes I meant a continuous chain, thank you.im loving the new oil - when my good camera gets back tomorrow i will show what the old oil had turned intoOhhhhhhhhhh great thats another thing I have got to do now then before I ride - Chain and sprockets soon, - including a swing arm strip and re lube (using a continuous chain ) I don't ride enough now as it is -- very tempted to by something new to cut out all the maintenance although I do get great satisfaction from doing my own maintenance it has to be said.
i have left it in a jar to let it settle and its some what unnerving - god knows how old it was
I've been saying this is a simple and inexpensive improvement for years, why are you suddenly convinced now? :lol
And its just that I don't listen to you that's all
I found this table https://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/ (https://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/)
it shows the viscosity of various fork oils.
you might be supprised at the viscosity of Silcolene rsf15 compared to Yamaha G15 which is Yamaha's 15W for oil.
I was surprised at how the new ISO standard is being misinterpreted, see below...
Oil Conversion Chart
SAE-to-ISO
SAE ISO/AW
10W 32
15W or 20W 46
20W 6830W 100
ISO and SAE are standardized specifications that define oil weight. This ensures that one brand's 30-weight oil is the same viscosity as another's.
This oil conversion chart is approximate.
I ended up going by the viscosity value and not what it says on the label.the 15W fork oil I ended up buying was the Rock Oil SVI 15 with a viscosity of 48 close to the Yamaha 15W of 47.3
after leaving the oil to sit in a jar for nearly a week this happened
(this is just one fork the other is contaminated with leftover coffee granules)mostly water by the looks of that
I'm with Slaninar, Scottoiler all the way. It includes a cleaning fluid and chains last 3+ times as long, that's proven. The container holds enough oil for at least 500 miles, so how can you forget to top it up? Would you forget to check tyre pressures? Better Scottoil than that sticky dirt magnet stuff that comes out of cans.
after leaving the oil to sit in a jar for nearly a week this happened
(this is just one fork the other is contaminated with leftover coffee granules)mostly water by the looks of that
Do you know when it was last changed?
galvanic corrosionYou see that's all I need to read to put me off.
galvanic corrosionYou see that's all I need to read to put me off.
I do have all the kit apart from the specialist tools.
Judging by the sludge in there I wonder how much good a simple replace oil would do.
galvanic corrosionYou see that's all I need to read to put me off.
I do have all the kit apart from the specialist tools.
Judging by the sludge in there I wonder how much good a simple replace oil would do.
What I was meaning was if it is gunky sludge without actually dismantling and giving a proper clean I am putting clean oil into dirty tubes.galvanic corrosionYou see that's all I need to read to put me off.
I do have all the kit apart from the specialist tools.
Judging by the sludge in there I wonder how much good a simple replace oil would do.
Ooyy! Sharpie, I hope you don't think like that about your engine oil.
I'm with Slaninar, Scottoiler all the way. It includes a cleaning fluid and chains last 3+ times as long, that's proven. The container holds enough oil for at least 500 miles, so how can you forget to top it up? Would you forget to check tyre pressures? Better Scottoil than that sticky dirt magnet stuff that comes out of cans.
500 miles - holy crap i would have to refill it every week at least
i agree with matt entirely on this
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xgcx6F6fw[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xgcx6F6fw[/url])
if you ride in all weathers they are not the best of ideas (although usefull to a degree) and as for 3x longer - in comparison to what ???
a properly looked after chain removing the road crap will last just as long as any scottoiler looked after chain, especially with o/x ring chains as we are no longer lubricating the inner rollers we are only lubricating the plates that hold the rollers together
500 miles - holy crap i would have to refill it every week at leastOh well that's 20 seconds of your life you'll never get back then ;)