Great interview

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

If Scotland seek to gain independence and try to gain re entry into the EU, Spain will veto that application.

I think you are missing the point Lew.  Scotland voted decisively to REMAIN in the EU.  Clearly, the Scottish government must respect the result of the referendum, and as such will do everything within it’s powers to see that Scotland does indeed remain within the EU. 

If there is not a BREXIT settlement that does not give Scotland access to the single market, and does not pass powers to Scotland that previously came under EU membership then there is a possibility of a second referendum on Independence.

Obviously it’s up to the UK government to respect and accommodate all members of the United Kingdom .
But the key point that you are missing is that currently Scotland is a member of the EU, SCOTS law, our economy etc etc are fully integrated into the EU.

Scotland will not seek to “gain re entry into the EU” as you put it, but rather to continue it’s membership.

[mtread]

(Unfortunately) it's also up to the UK government whether to allow another Scottish independence referendum.

[lew600fazer]

Scotland is not a member of the EU.
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom and so does not have separate membership.
So VNA you are missing the point.
Spain has already stated it WILL block any attempt by an Independent Scotland to join the EU.

[Graham53]

Scotland is not a member of the EU.
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom and so does not have separate membership.
So VNA you are missing the point.
Spain has already stated it WILL block any attempt by an Independent Scotland to join the EU.

Well said
Just a few figures for the Scots to peruse before attempting to join the eu
2.9million eu nationals living in the U.K.
1.2million.uk nationals in Europe (27 other countries)
That's 444,444.444 to 1 all needing employment , housing , health treatment etc
181,000 of those are living in Scotland (Scottish parliament published figures from 2015)
That's 2,719,000 difference how about they all upped sticks to Scotland
Foreign born population of wales risen by 82% in 10 years , wales also voted leave , coincidence???
Let's imagine Scotland leaves uk , joins Europe , they won't get money from us under the Barnett formula which is outdated and needs reforming , ok they get oil revenue and tax receipts but what about when the oil runs out? No oil workers means less tax receipts.
What about the significant increase in eu nationals needing housing , rents will rise (supply and demand) house prices will rise, wages might decrease in real terms as foreign workers willing to accept lower wages for same work , in work and out of work benefits payments will rise, schools demand will increase  crime will increase, prison population will increase , health service demand will increase.
Yes there will be some increase in tax receipts for let's say an increase of 100,000 but most low income workers are below the tax threshold and have in work benefits as a top up so that could result in a negative in tax receipts in real terms
If you think I'm right wing you're wrong , I'm neither left or right , I also don't believe what I read in the press of either persuasion, I don't particularly like Farage but refreshingly he speaks his mind most other politicians are too afraid of losing a vote and are like sheep , I have friends that are from Europe and relatives and friends that live in Europe, I was employed a while ago and our wages were frozen because the company went to Poland and employed over a hundered workers that would work over eighty hours a week for less money than we got for forty , would you like to work those hours for less money but the poles did it because their families were not with them and they lived ten to a house to keep costs low and sent all spare money home, but according to some things like that don't happen,eu migrants don't work for less , whilst that wasn't the poles fault entirely as the company were complicit if we could regulate against it exploitation wouldn't be done
I might be talking bollocks but careful what you wish for Scotland it might come true and then you're fucked

[mtread]

Just on a few technical points :
1. Scotland would welcome increased migration. It has a skills shortage and plenty of empty space.
2. The Barnet formula doesn't 'give' Scotland money. It shares out UK revenue, which of course the Scots pay into. 
3. Farage is a cunt.

[fazersharp]

It ls almost like the only reason (some ) scots are arguing for a stay in the EU is because they see it as a path to independence.

But in my book I am happy for scotland to leave the UK but there is no way that we can have a situation where scotland is part of the EU allowing un fetted immigration only for them to then just walk across the scot - English border.     

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

Scotland is not a member of the EU.

That’s strange, cos our legal system and everything we do is fully compliant with the European Union.  I can travel and work across Europe and I can buy goods from Europe without paying any extra duty.  But according to Lew Scotland is not part of the EU.  Somebody needs to point this out to both the Scottish government and the European Union.

Just on a few technical points :
 1. Scotland would welcome increased migration. It has a skills shortage and plenty of empty space.
 2. The Barnet formula doesn't 'give' Scotland money. It shares out UK revenue, which of course the Scots pay into. 
 3. Farage is a cunt.

Spot on Mtread.  I was however stunned to hear Mr Farage talk sense a couple of weeks ago on question time, they were discussing Saudi Arabia, which just so happens to be the birth place of Wahhabism, which Saudi have promoted around the globe and of course Wahhabism has given birth to the so called Islamic State.  Yet, as Farage pointed out, the biggest terrorist sponsors in the world, the friends of IS are our buddies whom we happily sell arms to.   Quite bizarre to hear Will Self call Nigel Farage and Donald Trump “grubby little opportunists” then next hear them both agree about the UK equally grubby relationship with Saudi Arabia.    But there you go.


But yeah, Scotland is concerned about the loss of free movement, it’s working well for us. 



 but most low income workers are below the tax threshold and have in work benefits


I’m not sure you understand what Independence means.  It means Scotland will elect it’s own governments and those governments will serve Scotland.  Scotland didn’t elect Maggie Thatcher, we didn’t want New Labour, we didn’t want David Cameron or Teresa Remainer one minute hard line Brexiter the next May. 



I don’t see Scotland running wage and tax structures that subsidise the rich.  Which is what the bulk of in work benefits are – tax breaks for the rich.  Between the biggest corporations in the country not having to pay any tax at all and their workers not getting paid a living wage, well the UK has become the country where socialism for the rich functions.


Look people in England voted to leave the EU by a narrow margin.  Scotland voted to Remain.  But what people haven’t voted on is what Brexit is.


There is also the possibility, which would be fine, that the Tory party will fall apart when Brexit is defined.  If one thing always splits the Tory party, it’s Europe.  One reason Teresa May won’t define Brexit is because the minute she does it’s likely her party will split and tear itself apart.


As for securing the future of the UK.  It’s not that difficult.  If there is a BREXIT (and I say if, as it’s still not clear that any of this will amount to anything) it must be a ‘soft’ BREXIT ie we remain in the single market, further powers that come back from Brussels must come back to the Scottish Parliament , ie fishing, employment law, immigration.  And as compensation, and to secure a future for the UK, corporation tax needs to come under the Scottish Parliament.  Basically federalism.


And clearly if Scotland doesn’t get a good deal one way or another, the option to go alone is still there.


 

but there is no way that we can have a situation where Scotland is part of the EU allowing un fetted immigration only for them to then just walk across the scot - English border.     

There will be an open border between Northern Ireland (another country being forced out of the EU against it’s will by England) and The Republic of Ireland.

[fazersharp]

 

but there is no way that we can have a situation where Scotland is part of the EU allowing un fetted immigration only for them to then just walk across the scot - English border.     

There will be an open border between Northern Ireland (another country being forced out of the EU against it’s will by England) and The Republic of Ireland.

But we have a nice big moat between us and them.
What we need is a massive wall between England and scotland - Im sure its been done before and we should also make scotland pay for it.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

But we have a nice big moat between us and them.

Which is 'them'.  The people in Northern Ireland (the UK), people in the Republic or folks from accross the EU in both NI and the republic?  Or is it just everybody the English don't like!

And have you never heard of a ferry?

What we need is a massive wall between England and scotland - Im sure its been done before and we should also make scotland pay for it.

FazerDonaldsharp?  Anyway anybody laugthing at Trump should check out the UK government.  "I want a red white and blue Brexit"  Theresa May

[mtread]

I think you will find there is only a land boundary between Eire and UK(NI). Or are you looking to stop free movement within the UK?

[fazersharp]

It would be a shame though if scotland broke away because the UK flag does look pretty with the blue bit in it.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Maybe we will have to build a wall. 

  With a booming economy an Independent Scotland within the EU may need to control it’s border with England, considering England's failing economy outside the biggest single open trading market in the world!
 

[mtread]

I thought there already was a wall. Might need a bit of work doing to it though.

[lew600fazer]

VNA please post some form of documentation that states Scotland is a member of the EU.
Scotland IS NOT PART OF THE EU. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and N Ireland are part of the EU. Last time I looked Scotland was still a part of the United Kingdom.
VNA for someone who lives in a country which after all is a conquered nation you sure do talk some shite.

[fazersharp]

I thought there already was a wall. Might need a bit of work doing to it though.

You wont have a problem there as you could use all the polish and Bulgarian bricklayers that will be heading your way (once they have built the housing estates on all that empty land you have)

[mtread]

But it's the English that would want the wall rebuilt. Which means it won't get done on time and will be very expensive. I also recall that the wall is south of the current border, which means handing back Berwick and bits of Northumberland. BTW, I'm not a Scot. I like the place, but the weather's crap.

[fazersharp]

which means handing back Berwick and bits of Northumberland.

Ave it !

BTW, I'm not a Scot. I like the place, but the weather's crap.

Now you see this is the problem the scots are trying to use Brexit as a path to their own independence and the Remainers are piggybacking the scots to try to push for a stay in the EU. Both I think are demonstrating pretty disingenuous behaviour. 

[mtread]

That's fair enough. The Leavers did all their subterfuge before the referendum in order to steal the result.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

Now you see this is the problem the scots are trying to use Brexit as a path to their own independence and the Remainers are piggybacking the scots to try to push for a stay in the EU. Both I think are demonstrating pretty disingenuous behaviour.

Don’t be silly.  That’s a nonsense.  I voted to REMAIN.  My hope was that the UK would vote decisively to REMAIN.  I have to say back in 2014, as somebody who has wanted independence for many years I didn’t think we would win, and we didn’t.  But, it was almost there, and indeed if Westminster hadn’t broken the rules of the campaign in the closing stages, well, you know, we might have made it across the line.



And don't forget the whole BREXIT campaign was based on lies.  Disingenous indeed!



And what is BREXIT anyway.  It’s dumb.  There is no wisdom behind it, just a fear of Johnny Foreigner and a vague notion of ‘taking back control’.  It is in fact a pissed off electorate kicking back against the system.  But they were kicking the wrong ball.


And of course, such is the mess, nobody told the voters what BREXIT would be, in fact nobody really bothered to put too much effort into thinking what it might mean or be as nobody actually seriously thought it would happen.  It was offered to the people as a means for divided Tory party to unite and win an election.  That they did, they held the referendum, and DOH!  Now they have a big problem. 



Scotland now has a problem too.  As I’ve explained Scotland, on the whole, does well as a member of the EU – hey there’s stuff we don’t like either, but on balance it works.  And yeah we might all want to think of the history of the EU, why it came to be and where we are now. 



You wanna know something, nobody knows what the result of a second Scottish referendum would be.  Many of those who voted YES in 2014 then voted OUT in 2016.  The wealthier you were in 2014 the more likely you were to vote NO, the wealthier you were in 2016 the more like to vote REMAIN.  Go figure.


But one thing that can drastically change the situation is - a Prime Minister and a government who teat the Scots with contempt.  David Cameron treated Scotland with contempt on the morning of the result in 2014 when he used that referendum result to talk of ‘English votes for English laws’.


Theresa May so far is treating Scotland like an irritating little colony – she is risking the union.


I’m not a member of the SNP, I’m not a massive fan of the SNP, but so far Nicola Sturgeon is playing a pretty smart game.  And indeed, practically offering Westminster a federal settlement that would put Independence to bed forever.  Perhaps not what Westminster wants, but considering the mess the Tories have got themselves in, well it might not be a bad idea. 



But whatever, the bottom line is access to the single market.  And it is possible for England and Wales to leave, with Scotland and Northern Ireland cutting a single market deal.  Which when you think about it, allows England and Wales to hard BREXIT but still have back door access to the EU.


There are plenty of other options.  But Fazersharp, if you think the Scottish Government is just going to ignore it’s electorate and say ‘oh well, sorry folks – England decides – it doesn’t matter what youse think’ I mean come on what planet are you on man?


And as for disingenuous behaviour – well the perfect example of that was the pledge to hold the referendum in order to win an election.  Bonkers!

[slimwilly]

What a load of bollocks I just read above, your view and just that, if we all took our time like you to write our thoughts, good thoughts, bollocks thoughts then this country would grind to a halt.
This country was grown  by private enterprise, still holds together by independant business and enterprise, the brexit vote was a combination of these people plus normal employees, yes everyday people,,we know what its about,,,,oh fuck,you got me writing now

don't need you to tell us we are wrong

[taylor]

what I read Scotland is in to much debt to join the eu.  ?? who gives a f,

[lew600fazer]

Funny that I thought that was a requirement just take a look at all the scrounging bastards that are trying to join.