Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: markaboot on 05 May 2013, 04:18:32 pm
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mine looked like this! :eek
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/944956_10151483349883725_1121603211_n.jpg)
had to double check if it was water cooled or not, it looked like oil and smelt a bit like burnt caramel.
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Oh dear, that is oil, that ain't good at all..... :eek
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thought so, doing a compression test now.
edit: no i'm not because i don't have the right adapter
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look grim whatever it is. try taking one of the lower hoses off and run some water through it and see what comes out
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i flushed it all today, fresh water in. will run it a couple of times then flush again and put antifreeze in.
if was oil would i not have mayo in the radiator cap or worse on the oil cap?
i think its probably just really old coolant and well overdue a change.
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Are you sure you didn't open the oil plug instead instead of the coolant bolt :'(
Not necessarily a compression problem, more than likely a water punp issue
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I have a feeling this could be connected to your rattle?
And it wouldn't matter if your coolant was 10 years old, it still wouldn't be that colour or texture!!
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yea me too :'(
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Some pointers here: http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185740 (http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185740)
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Three posibilities Water pump , head gasket or oil cooler .
Most likely the water pump mechanical seal if there is no coolant in the oil.
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Three posibilities Water pump , head gasket or oil cooler .
Most likely the water pump mechanical seal if there is no coolant in the oil.
yea oil looks ok from looking in the cap and window. very slight mayo on the cap thread, that normally i'd put down to condensation, im talking minimal amount, tiny tiny.
but then oil floats on water so any water would be in the bottom.
the coolant deff had an oily smell and feel on my fingers, but i've never seen oil and water mix without turning into mayo.
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Is this the same bike with the rattle when hot? It is certainly pointing to the pump on both posts.
The noise sounds like the impeller knocking off the casing due to a knackered bearing which has damaged the seal.
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Just read that the bearings can go on the impeller part of the pump.
I'd get your ear towards the water pump and get someone to rev the engine a little.
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I do believe thats what I said, water pump problem, if you read both threads
quiet when cold, rattles like mad when warm ?? (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,7375.0.html)
what colour was your coolant last time you changed it? (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,7633.0.html)
They are related :wall
and no you cannot get bearings or seals for it, the complete pump needs to be replaced.
Since it does not happen to often it is worth taking a chance on a second hand pump.
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I do believe thats what I said, water pump problem, if you read both threads
quiet when cold, rattles like mad when warm ?? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,7375.0.html[/url])
what colour was your coolant last time you changed it? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,7633.0.html[/url])
They are related :wall
and no you cannot get bearings or seals for it, the complete pump needs to be replaced.
Since it does not happen to often it is worth taking a chance on a second hand pump.
I know, and i do believe that i remember you posted as i was typing my answer at the same time.
And yes i know that he has the same name, the same bike, and i've been reading and commenting in both threads too, and i never mentioned buying bearings or seals for it, i was trying to pinpoint exactly where the actual fault was for starters!
Have a read and you'll see for yourself! :wall :wall
Did we get a bit tiddly last night perchance? :b
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Darrsi
Time for you to start reading the posts properly. :eek
You must be having one of you DARSSI moments :pokefun
Go back an read them again. :z
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mine looked like this! :eek
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/944956_10151483349883725_1121603211_n.jpg)
had to double check if it was water cooled or not, it looked like oil and smelt a bit like burnt caramel.
I've just seen this post, how long have you owned this bike?
Never seen this of on a Fazer before but on other bikes mainly race engines, somehow the coolant could been lost due to a leak or after doing some work i.e. loose pipe etc. I've also seen it where debris has entered the system after major work or using an old watering can which jams the impeller and buggers the bearing. The coolant is then lost through evaporation, oil enters via the buggered bearing/impeller shaft the bike is now oil cooled I will work but not for too long!
Fully and semi synthetic oil is that good today an engine can run with almost no loss of performance for a limited time with no coolant. Bit of history here during WW2 most US carrier based aircraft engines where big radials, radials were mainly air cooled and preferred over water cooled engines at the time as they didn't have cooling systems that are venerable do battle damage. The Pacific war was by definition fought over long range over water the planes had to get back to the carrier or ditch in the sea, risking loosing the pilot.
Battle damage often meant damage to engine oil tanks and possible total oil loss so they devolved oil additives (PTFE forerunners) slick 50 and such like, these would enable an engine to run without oil. Which would keep the plane flying get the all important pilot/s back the the carrier the engine would be shot but they had plenty of them.
You need to do a major strip down to see what is going on with this engine or just get hold of a good second hand engine there are plenty out there.
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Just to answer the thread question, on both my Fazers the stuff that came out was luminous green and had the consistency of water. The stuff that's gone back in is more of a burnt orange colour - picked it up at Halfrauds
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I just read somewhere else that "Bars Stops Leaks" which is a different brand of RadWeld can make coolant oily over a period of time.
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If it could reliable change water into that sort of oil I'd be half tempted to put it in the engine haha :lol
In all seriousness though, that doesn't look as though its been changed / altered, it looks like it literally is and always has been oil :P
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Had the water pump out this morning, looks fine, no play its clean, seals look good. No obvious signs of water and oil mixing, no mayo.
The coolant level has never dropped nor has oil level. Its possible a previous owner used a very light oil as coolant or a dark orange coolant perhaps.
A compression test showed even cylinder pressures.
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If all looks well i'd be inclined to use some RadFlush in the system and give the bike a good run, or leave it in the system for a couple of days then flush out and refill with proper coolant and see if it all seems okay?
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Mine looked just like that 2 years ago when I first changed the coolant after my first servicing. I put it down to not being changed EVER in the 10+ years the bikes been around.
Coolant just changed. This time the waste looked much better - no 'oil' etc.
Could be wrong though! :lol
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Mine looked just like that 2 years ago when I first changed the coolant after my first servicing. I put it down to not being changed EVER in the 10+ years the bikes been around.
Coolant just changed. This time the waste looked much better - no 'oil' etc.
Could be wrong though! :lol
I s'pose if a bike gets passed from inexperienced people to more inexperienced people over short periods of ownership then it's maybe possible that the fluids could be overlooked, but i'd have thought a mechanic doing an MOT would pick up on the colour of it in the expansion tank?
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I would have just assumed that the mechanics look at the level and figure its fine - you can't see very well the colour or viscosity through the expansion tank
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Mine looked just like that 2 years ago when I first changed the coolant after my first servicing. I put it down to not being changed EVER in the 10+ years the bikes been around.
Coolant just changed. This time the waste looked much better - no 'oil' etc.
Could be wrong though! :lol
thats what i put it down to at first, it did still have that greeny fluorescent yellow tinge to it.
i'm gunna rad flush soon, just running with clean water in for a week and then drain it all off and check again.
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I'd be careful running with just water tbh, depending on how hard your water is it could start to scale up very quickly, i remember killing a montego doing that a few years ago(did me a favour actually).
For the cost i'd add at least 'some' antifreeze.
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Leave the RadFlush in for a couple of days so it cools down and heats up a few times, it's much more effective.
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Can't see the picture, but I had the same thing in my coolant... like the alcohol in the antifreeze went back to being a sugar... I just flushed it load and topped it up, no problems yet but will only see the next time I drain.
Is antifreeze really a better coolant than water?
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Can't see the picture, but I had the same thing in my coolant... like the alcohol in the antifreeze went back to being a sugar... I just flushed it load and topped it up, no problems yet but will only see the next time I drain.
Is antifreeze really a better coolant than water?
i believe its more the anti freezing and anti corrosion properties you're after.
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Coolant also increases the boiling point compared to just water.
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Coolant also increases the boiling point compared to just water.
i did not know that :)
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Coolant also increases the boiling point compared to just water.
i did not know that :)
Basically without it you have a really fast kettle :lol
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:rollin
Fast but hopefully slow boiling. :lol
Chris
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anti scale, anti freeze, anti corrosion, better heat transfer and higher boiling point, i think at a 50/50 mix you're looking at about 110 c, and at 100% its closer to 200 c. Apparently though its best anti freeze mix is 60-70% if you're looking at frost prevention. Min 25% for anti scale/anti corrosion.
What temp does the thermostat open/fan come on and light come on with fazers?
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Who knows? No temp. guage!!
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Pretty sure its in the manual and/or technical docs and that it comes on at 90C
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Coolant also increases the boiling point compared to just water.
i did not know that :)
Basically without it you have a really fast kettle :lol
The anti freeze does little to raise the boiling point it's because it's a pressurised system that does that. :)
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Last summer my fazer boiled over sitting in traffic, coolant coming out the overflow pipe before the cooling fan kicked in. Turned out to be too little antifreeze in the water, was at about 30%. Now have least 50/50 and no issues with boiling over, cooling fan kicks in fine.
Never seen coolant that colour before, if it looks like oil, and smells like oil :)
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anti scale, anti freeze, anti corrosion, better heat transfer and higher boiling point, i think at a 50/50 mix you're looking at about 110 c, and at 100% its closer to 200 c. Apparently though its best anti freeze mix is 60-70% if you're looking at frost prevention. Min 25% for anti scale/anti corrosion.
What temp does the thermostat open/fan come on and light come on with fazers?
stat opens at 80deg
cant find figures for fan on or engine temp warning
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Last summer my fazer boiled over sitting in traffic, coolant coming out the overflow pipe before the cooling fan kicked in. Turned out to be too little antifreeze in the water, was at about 30%. Now have least 50/50 and no issues with boiling over, cooling fan kicks in fine.
Never seen coolant that colour before, if it looks like oil, and smells like oil :)
A RadFlush would help too, to unclog any blockages.
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If knowing weather you've got oil or water is stopping you from sleeping there's a simple test used in emulsion science that might work called "the drop test":
Get yourself two separate glasses, one containing a bit of water, the other some engine oil that's clean enough to see through. Put a few drops of the mystery solution into each and give them a little shake/stir. The drops should mix into the same type of liquid and that'll be your answer.
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Thanks, never had the fan on so i thought i'd make sure it worked the other day (had the engine running post fin painting), the rad got hot at about the time i would have expected, but the fan took ages to come on, had my eyes glued to the light!! Nearly gave up but it kicked in the end.
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Thermostat on the 1998 to 2003 FZS 600 starts to open at 80.5 degree C and is fully open at 83.5 degrees C