33bhp restriction extensions

[midden]

One of our most favoured members has just announced on fb the end of his 33bhp restriction.
My instant thought was, what point is the restriction if the restricted rider spends most of the period without a bike or making insurance claims for crashing without penalty.
Surely there should be a monitoring system (black box) and the ability to impose probationary extensions..

[JoeRock]

To be honest, I'm more than a bit concerned that with so many accidents on a partially powered bike, he's now stepping up to a full powered one!

[midden]

My point exactly.......if there monitoring system in place to extend the restriction where necessary what is the point of the restriction at all.  the test has shown ability to ride.    That is the one good thing with the black box which insurers put in cars of new drivers, they actually know times, they are out and speeds they are going and act upon the information.

[ChristoT]

Actually, in response to all the slandering of my good name...

I had to pass the same test as everyone else. In fact, I passed a more stringent test than that passed by some of the older members here.

I have acquaintances who passed their tests, and then stayed off bikes for 2 years until their restriction was up. I didn't, and only a change of circumstances (my ZX-4 blowing up) has kept me off bikes. That still counts for 1 1/2 years more road experience than the others have had.

Power has yet to have been a problem in any of my "incidents". Most involve low speed and stupidity (which I intend to resolve with BikeSafe courses, etc when back on the road). And just for the record, Midden, my current claim count stands at 1.

On the black box thing - my car hasn't got a black box - the insurance for the black box was more expensive than standard! And no, I don't know why either.

[midden]

I haven't put this thread up to ridicule you Christo, it's just a thought which come to mind on the back of your news.  I did in my last post mention the bike test shows ability to ride.  You actually did much more in your test than me and probably most of us.    My point is merely highlighting the stupidity of the system. Pilots have to complete x amount of hours in the air before getting licences as do I believe HGV drivers, yet motorcyclists just have bhp restrictions for a fixed time regardless of whether that time is spent riding or not and that time remains fixed regardless of how the rider performs. 


Let's face it Christo there are far worse than you

[mickvp]

I haven't put this thread up to ridicule you Christo, it's just a thought which come to mind on the back of your news.  I did in my last post mention the bike test shows ability to ride.  You actually did much more in your test than me and probably most of us.    My point is merely highlighting the stupidity of the system. Pilots have to complete x amount of hours in the air before getting licences as do I believe HGV drivers, yet motorcyclists just have bhp restrictions for a fixed time regardless of whether that time is spent riding or not and that time remains fixed regardless of how the rider performs. 


Let's face it Christo there are far worse than you

and to add to the stupidity....the bhp restriction is based on age. I passed last year, and as I was over 25, I was immediately awarded an unrestricted license - which makes the restriction for young(er) riders even more bonkers.


Passing a test merely indicates you can ride safely to a set standard, but as we all know on here, its only the beginning of the path to learning to ride properly.

[ChristoT]

I haven't put this thread up to ridicule you Christo, it's just a thought which come to mind on the back of your news.  I did in my last post mention the bike test shows ability to ride.  You actually did much more in your test than me and probably most of us.    My point is merely highlighting the stupidity of the system. Pilots have to complete x amount of hours in the air before getting licences as do I believe HGV drivers, yet motorcyclists just have bhp restrictions for a fixed time regardless of whether that time is spent riding or not and that time remains fixed regardless of how the rider performs. 


Let's face it Christo there are far worse than you

Not only do pilots have to complete a number of hours, they then need to complete hours per annum to keep their license current. A few years ago, when there was an excess of commercial airline pilots (it goes in cycles - excess or shortage, very rarely a stable point), the pilots were offering their services to airlines for free just so they could stay current on that model of aeroplane, as renewing a license is hideously expensive!

The real criminal thing is insurance. Only a few companies insure 33hp riders, which makes it really expensive. So people don't ride, so their skills rust, then they jump on GSXRs or Fireblades after 2 years off bikes, with only a 125's experience.... nicht gut.

[chris.biker]

I have always felt that the real policing of driving standards is done by insurance, it hits the less well off first but the more incidents you have the more your fined so to speak by insurance companies.

[Millietant]

When I turned 17, I jumped from my 5bhp FS1E to a 30 Bhp 250 learner bike (with no lessons or tests except what my dad gave me) which I took my test on almost immediately, and passed. That meant that at 17 yrs and a couple of months old, with very little real bike time, I could jump straight on a Z1000 etc - if I could afford it. I couldn't, but my dad could, BUT he wouldn't give in because he'd grown up with bikes and knew I'd likely kill myself.

To be honest, in the late 70's, my 250 was all I needed. I toured the UK, toured Northern Spain, France, Germany and many other places on that bike and even though I was always wanting & dreaming of more power, I managed without it - and loved my bike, until I was 21 and I eventually got a 650.

I'd have killed to have something like a Fazer 600 at 17 - even with 33 bhp !

Having a son about the same age as ChrisTo, who's ridden his Fazer 600 since a couple of weeks after his 17th birthday, I can actually say the 33bhp rule has Ben good for him. My son got used to riding the bike without full power being available, but also leavened to manoeuvre it in traffic and at low speed - where on our roads today, he still spends most of his time even though the bike now it's full complement of 95bhp.

Having said all that, I also agree with ChrisTo. - being a pilot myself and having just had to sit my annual re-test, I agree it's pretty much an essential and maybe should, in some form, be introduced for all "vehicle" operators.

If nothing else, at least once a year I worry, fret and panic about whether or not I've done enough hours and practiced enough at my "skills" (those which you don't use in everyday flying but are essential should you have a mechanical problem whilst in the air) to still be a capable and competent pilot.

Maybe it wouldn't be too bad if we had something similar to keep our driving licences.

(Now looking to get shot at by all and sundry).

[bri h]

I can see where your coming from with the ongoing test malarky, but in my experience although i consider myself a reasonably safe rider/driver i  cant honestly say i  concentrate 100% of the time. shit happens in the 5% or 10% that i drift off or get distracted. it would be hard to test for those moments.

[BBROWN1664]

My son has an ER-5 that's restricted to 33bhp which he is about to sell as he now has a full fat FZS600 sitting in the garage for when the restriction is lifted.

anyone want an ER-5?

[Robbie8666]

i agree with parts of this tread as I passed my test on a 100cc bike then went up to 250 then 650... then took 12 years out of riding but because i had a full licence and been 40+ was able to buy i wanted to & the insurance wouldn't have been to bad ,,, as it was I bought my Fazer600 and know thats enough bike for me! but I was as rusty as hell & still am if I'm honest!
 

[Dead Eye]

I can understand some sort of re-test to ensure that riders are up to scratch - this would also help to introduce new and better techniques to everyone rather than only to new applicants.

A monitoring system I am not fond of, because at the end of the day everyone has broken the speed limit at some point; even if it was just for 10 yards of entering a lower limit zone. I understand the concept behind it, I just think it begins to emulate censorship too much for my liking.

[AndyL]

With the current tests there isn't natural progression so you can't do a 125 test then get on a 1000cc sports bike. I don't know how many people do the tests on the smaller bikes now, I guess the middle power class is useful but if I was young I'd just ride on the CBT before doing the test when old enough to do the next class up.

[BBROWN1664]

Andy. The new test structure is exactly that. Progression from small to big. You can however jump straight to the biggest bike test if you are old enough.

When I took my test it should have been on a 125 after which I could ride anything. they then introduced the 33bhp limit for two years of the direct access test. Now, take your test on a 125 and all you can ride is a 125. Is it worth bothering??
After that you can take two more tests as you get older (19 and 21) or wait till your 24 to take the DAS route.

[ChristoT]

At great expense each time too

[Dead Eye]

The greatest restriction for getting a license is age at the moment (ignore monetary cost for a second)

I went from literally zero experience to, being allowed to ride ANY bike I choose, in a period of about 6 weeks. Did my CBT on a 125 then DAS training on a GS500 and proceeded to buy my first Fazer 600. Quite a lot of bike for a newbie and it was certainly daunting getting on it for the first time.

In the grand scheme of things, I can't see how my age has made any real difference. The only significant influence for me personally, was having 4 years of driving experience so that actually being on the road wasn't anything new to learn

Besides, I've known a few people who have taken and passed their driving test at 17 / 18 but haven't driven since (they are now 24 / 25). Should they wish to drive any car they wish now, there is nothing stopping them but their skill level is going to be significantly less than that of someone who has just passed. My point being that there isn't one solution to handle the problem; which at the end of the day is often a lack of common sense. You can't treat stupid. Sorry Christo...

[ChristoT]

You can't treat stupid. Sorry Christo...

Careful with them implications, boyo! 

 

[Mark YPVS]

Thats good news ChristoT, and yes the test you done was far harder than mine in 1985, my son has just passed and got a ZXR 400.


You could have passed you car test and not driven until you could afford a Lambo as well , the restriction makes no sense to me. 


Mark

[AndyL]

Andy. The new test structure is exactly that. Progression from small to big. You can however jump straight to the biggest bike test if you are old enough.

Sorry I meant the same thing with possibly a poor choice of words. I went from CBT to doing the test on a 650 bandit with some lessons on a ER5, I had been on the 125 for about 4 years by then due to a repeat CBT