Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Skippernick on 29 November 2018, 08:22:13 pm
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Meant to be reasonable day tomorrow, so thought I would take the big bike! Alas a flat battery has put a stop to that. My Aldi charger won't even try to start to charge it as its so low, 1.5 volts. It has sat for about 3 months and is possibly the original battery.
Can I jump start the bike from the car or is there too many amps for the bike system?
The alternative I guess is too bump start it, but Im not to sure how to do that, can someone give me a step by step guide? :o
Cheers
Nick
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Meant to be reasonable day tomorrow, so thought I would take the big bike! Alas a flat battery has put a stop to that. My Aldi charger won't even try to start to charge it as its so low, 1.5 volts. It has sat for about 3 months and is possibly the original battery.
Can I jump start the bike from the car or is there too many amps for the bike system?
The alternative I guess is too bump start it, but Im not to sure how to do that, can someone give me a step by step guide? :o
Cheers
Nick
Easier if you are on a hill as you can sit on it and roll with the clutch in and the bike in 1st or I think 2nd is better - fling out the clutch and it should start up.
Otherwise on the flat you run along the side and push it and do the same with the clutch but at the same time you jump on the bike and the bump as you jump on is I believe where the term comes from. If you dont do this then without and weight on the back wheel it will just lock the wheel and skid.
Having said that I would never attempt it like that myself, I would sit on it and get some one to push on the flat.
But remember that if you stop and the battery is fooked then you will have do start it again the same way
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If it's at 1.5V it's probably for the bin but if it's not been discharged for too long sometimes they will come back. You can try charging it and see if it comes back by you connecting another battery in parallel with the dead one and then connecting your charger. Connections in parallel have the same voltage across them so the charger will see the voltage of the good battery and turn on. Parallel between two batteries is connecting positive terminal to positive terminal with a wire and negative terminal to negative terminal with a second wire. If you have jumper cables use them to make the connections. They are large enough diameters that they won't over heat. After you connect the two batteries together connect the charger as normal to one of the batteries and it should come on and start charging the two batteries. Leave it for about half an hour and then plug out the charger and disconnect the batteries hopefully the dead battery is now up to a voltage where the charger will come on when you connect it to the charger by itself and you can charge it like normal the rest of the way.
If you want to push start the bike as fazersharp said turn the ignition on, put the kill switch to run, pull the clutch in, put the bike in second gear and run with the clutch held in, once you get to your top speed release the clutch. If you were running fast enough the engine should start. You have to immediately pull the clutch lever again to stop the bike driving off without you :lol
You can also jump it off a car. I haven't done that myself so I won't tell you how to do that but if I was doing it I'd keep the car engine off in case the car alternator caused problems for the bike. But I don't know if that is really a problem or not.
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If you want to try His Dudeness’s suggestion of paralleling the batteries, you can use a 21 W indicator bulb in series (i.e between the two positive terminals) as a current limit. If it glows brightly that’s good news, keep it in circuit until it goes out. That way, if the battery is recoverable you won’t damage it with an excessive charging current.
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As you said you were going to take out the "big" bike - why don't you jump it from the "little" bike ? :)
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I love this site, thank you.
Little bike is a ybr125, not sure if its 12v or 6v but that's a good idea Millietant.
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I've jump started bikes from the car many times without any problems.
As has already been said, though, it's all very well starting it at home, just don't let the engine stop, unless you're on a hill and can roll down for a bump start!
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Bringing a 15+ year old 12 volt battery back from 1.5 volts is a huge ask, and i promise you the battery will never be reliable again.
If you attempt a bump start it is most definitely advised to do it on a downhill gradient in 2nd gear, otherwise it will be you that needs the jump leads.
Make sure all other electrics are switched off when doing so, like headlights, heated grips, spotlights, Xmas fairy lights, etc.
I will be bold though and say your battery has had it, and it's definitely time to treat the bike to an overdue Xmas present.
Don't go for the cheapest one you can find because it will end up as false economy. Buy a good branded name like Motobatt or Yuasa, and look for one that has extra cranking power, as they are tried and tested but still at a reasonably sensible price.
And be sure to look at the exact measurements of the battery in comparison to yours, as i've seen it before where they can somehow be totally different even though they're listed as suitable for your bike. I don't think the year of the bike will really matter, the battery compartments should all be the same on these bikes.
It says this is the right one, but i'd still do a quick measurement if i was you.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-2003-CT12B-4-CT12B-BS-Motobatt-Motorcycle-Battery-Upgrade/352456036581?epid=20025980731&hash=item52100450e5:g:N8wAAOSwqj9bkm7t:rk:10:pf:0 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-2003-CT12B-4-CT12B-BS-Motobatt-Motorcycle-Battery-Upgrade/352456036581?epid=20025980731&hash=item52100450e5:g:N8wAAOSwqj9bkm7t:rk:10:pf:0)
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I love this site, thank you.
Little bike is a ybr125, not sure if its 12v or 6v but that's a good idea Millietant.
Asking a 5AH battery to start a 600cc motor that’s not been turned over in 3 months is a tall order. I’d use a car battery.
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A friend told me the other day that the shops won't let you fill the battery yourself with the acid pack at home any more. He said they have to fill and seal it prior to purchase now. Can anyone confirm this?.
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I would advise investing in one of thesehttps://www.ctek.com/products/vehicle/mxs-3-8Aabout 6 years ago I brought the Yam branded one and it brought back to life a flat battery after about 24 hours of doing its special thing . It is also a maintainer and I keep the bike connected to it when not in use which could sometimes be up to 6 weeks. My battery is 20 years old -- it can not last much longer can it ?If I go out it may be for a few hours without any stops, or I may make many stops - if I am trawling all the local Aldi's looking for the correct size base layer special buy. The max time I have left it off charge is about 9 hours.
As a kid we always used to bump start lightweight field bikes and you had to really jump up in the air and land down on it (with a bump ) at the same time as letting out the clutch and your weight landing on it helped the back wheel to not just skid along the mud.
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Blimey 20 years old must be a record for a battery surely!.
Mine's on it's third in 15 years.
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Fazerider is spot on regards the CTEK charger.
I've had one permanently connected to missus' Foxeye 600 for the last 6 years and it has never let us down.
That includes the bike having an alarm fitted and the bike not moving for several weeks at a time.
Fantastic bit of kit.
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Fazerider is spot on regards the CTEK charger.
I've had one permanently connected to missus' Foxeye 600 for the last 6 years and it has never let us down.
That includes the bike having an alarm fitted and the bike not moving for several weeks at a time.
Fantastic bit of kit.
Sharp - not Rider.
Is yours the yam one or Cteck. Mine being the yam branded one I am not sure on the exact model but it has a car mode and bike mode, and a revive program as well as maintain. And looks like the link I posted I have a permanent connection to the battery with a lead that tucks away under the seat and just plug it in when I get back from a ride.
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A friend told me the other day that the shops won't let you fill the battery yourself with the acid pack at home any more. He said they have to fill and seal it prior to purchase now. Can anyone confirm this?.
Yes, I think thats now the case. I tried to buy some battery acid last month, and the garage told me they werent allowed to sell it anymore. I had to take the battery to them to fill.
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Most modern battery chargers wont recognise a battery if it drops below a certain voltage. I think mine fails if the voltage drops to below 9 volts. I can revive them somewhat, with a voltage regulator/convertor Ive had for years, input is 240v ac and I can have varying outputs 0-12v dc, then put the charger on
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Most modern battery chargers wont recognise a battery if it drops below a certain voltage. I think mine fails if the voltage drops to below 9 volts. I can revive them somewhat, with a voltage regulator/convertor Ive had for years, input is 240v ac and I can have varying outputs 0-12v dc, then put the charger on
I think the Cteck one uses some sort of special programming that (they say) can revive batteries other chargers can not.
They also badge them up for the likes of Rolls royce/ Jag - and so on (or other top marques ).
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A friend told me the other day that the shops won't let you fill the battery yourself with the acid pack at home any more. He said they have to fill and seal it prior to purchase now. Can anyone confirm this?.
How does that work when buying online then?
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Sorry Fazersharp, obviously I'm not sharp enough to remember whose post I am replying to :oops
Mine is the CTEK one, which I bought off the internet.
It's the XS 0.8 bike specific one and it did a great job of recovering the battery after it had gone completely flat, which is why I bought it.
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On Halfords site:
What Is Changing?
From July 1st 2018, the law around motorcycle batteries is changing. After this date, anyone wishing to buy a motorcycle battery with a separate acid pack will require an Explosives, Precursors and Poisons (EPP) Licence, costing £39.50. Purchasing acid packs without a licence will be illegal and could incur a fine. To keep things simple for you, we will no longer sell batteries with separate acid packs after July 1st. Instead, we will only stock pre-filled motorcycle batteries from Yuasa - the leading motorcycle battery brand. You won't need a licence to buy these pre-filled batteries and they come fully charged, ready to fit.
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Wemoto site:
https://www.wemoto.com/info/buying_motorcycle_batteries_as_of_july_1st,_2018 (https://www.wemoto.com/info/buying_motorcycle_batteries_as_of_july_1st,_2018)
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Cheers darrsi. Top posts. :thumbup
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I've jump started bikes from the car many times without any problems.
If anyone is thinking of jump starting a fuel injected bike from a car *DO NOT* have the car engine running, otherwise you could fry the bike's electrics!
I have an Optimate charger which claims to be able to recover deep-discharged batteries, although I've never tried it.
Note, however, that if one (or more) of the cells has died, it will still register as fully charged, but you'll have less power to crank the engine. I found this out when a brand new battery failed very soon after fitting it.
The only way to check properly is to find a friendly local garage and get them to put a drop-tester on it.
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I've jump started bikes from the car many times without any problems.
If anyone is thinking of jump starting a fuel injected bike from a car *DO NOT* have the car engine running, otherwise you could fry the bike's electrics!
I have an Optimate charger which claims to be able to recover deep-discharged batteries, although I've never tried it.
Note, however, that if one (or more) of the cells has died, it will still register as fully charged, but you'll have less power to crank the engine. I found this out when a brand new battery failed very soon after fitting it.
The only way to check properly is to find a friendly local garage and get them to put a drop-tester on it.
Once he tells them it's 20 years old i don't think the test will really be necessary. :lol
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Sorry Fazersharp, obviously I'm not sharp enough to remember whose post I am replying to :oops
Mine is the CTEK one, which I bought off the internet.
It's the XS 0.8 bike specific one and it did a great job of recovering the battery after it had gone completely flat, which is why I bought it.
Mine is the CTEK MX 5.0 I think is the same apart from mine also has a car mode
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Another thing to keep in mind is if your battery is on it's last legs your charging system will be constantly at full wack trying to charge the dying battery so over time that can cause more serious problems to the charging system
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Another thing to keep in mind is if your battery is on it's last legs your charging system will be constantly at full wack trying to charge the dying battery so over time that can cause more serious problems to the charging system
Could my 20 year old battery be on its last legs, I keep it on an optimiser. How dose the bike charging work then, I thought that the bike constantly charged anyway didn't know there was a two way communication between the battery and the charging system.
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Another thing to keep in mind is if your battery is on it's last legs your charging system will be constantly at full wack trying to charge the dying battery so over time that can cause more serious problems to the charging system
Could my 20 year old battery be on its last legs, I keep it on an optimiser. How dose the bike charging work then, I thought that the bike constantly charged anyway didn't know there was a two way communication between the battery and the charging system.
Unbeknowing to most people, rechargeable batteries do have a very short life, even more so when constantly recharged every day.
They'll still work but not at optimum strength or effect.
We buy Lithium camera batteries at work for cameras that cost about £500 a pop and because they're constantly on charge they do tend to lessen in reliability over time.
Our lead acid batteries which i use for my video monitors will again still work over time, but will noticeably have reduced power, even more so in very hot or cold conditions.
Seeing as bike batteries are so small, and what they now need to power, for me for example spotlights, headlights, heated grips, air horn, etc, they do incredibly well.
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Obviously, i'm of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but this generally applies to most batteries as a guide for rechargeable batteries.
I do actually replace my phone battery (for an extended life one) every couple of years, firstly because i can, and secondly because they are relatively cheap.
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After doing the headlight mod to have both lights on, i found that they can really put a strain on the battery, especially for me doing short runs every day to and from work in major traffic so the bike isn't even getting a good blast to aid charging, even more so when the cold winters kick in.
Then my heated grips add to the draining of power.
But since i've had the spotlights, i just use them on the way to work, so not only are they brighter than the headlights anyway, whether that be night or day, but they draw very little power so it gives the battery a much better chance of boosting itself back up.
I must add that a new or well conditioned (charged) battery does undoubtedly make the bike run and feel better. I'm not exactly sure why, because once the engine is running you'd simply think the electronics would take over, but it really does make a difference.
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I don't have heated grips but do have the two light mod. But 90% of my rides are traffic free fun rides and then the bike comes home and gets hooked up to the charger/optimater in an insulated cosy garage.
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Could my 20 year old battery be on its last legs
20 years old :eek Are you sure? I ain't sure that's possible. That's one execptional battery.
I did back in my skint skin flint days get 13 years out of a battery. The car in question was an 83 Cavalier Sri. My old man bought it when it was 4 years old – it had a GM battery in it – so I’m making the assumption that this was the original battery.
In it’s last year it was getting a weekly charge and at times only just turning the engine over. Eventually had to ditch it. When I did pull it out you could see the whole casing was warped.
I figured 13 years was something of a foccing miracle. And bike batteries get an even harder time than car batteries I’d say.
From July 1st 2018, the law around motorcycle batteries is changing. After this date, anyone wishing to buy a motorcycle battery with a separate acid pack will require an Explosives, Precursors and Poisons (EPP) Licence, costing £39.50.
For focs sake. Been happy enough with my Yuasa gel pack batteries. Usually get 4 to 5 years, which seems OK for turning over the thou.
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I've just changed my original Ford Mondeo battery after 13 years. With another lot of below zero temperatures arriving it wouldn't have taken it.
I think the acid pack issue is because of misuse with rather life changing consequences. Inevitable rule change I'm afraid.
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I think the acid pack issue is because of misuse with rather life changing consequences. Inevitable rule change I'm afraid.
I guess so.
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Could my 20 year old battery be on its last legs
20 years old :eek Are you sure? I ain't sure that's possible. That's one execptional battery.
No its a brexit lie :pokefun
I suppose there is a chance that between 1998 and 2001 when I brought it (01) there could of been a battery change but I was given all the receipts when I brought it. I drained it once back in 2012 trying to start it with knackerd plugs after it being not used for a few weeks so after that I brought the CTECK charger which brought it back to life and then as an optimiserand its been on it ever since after each ride.So from 2001 to 2012 it was never on the charger / optimiser and the bike only about 1000 miles per year BUT they were all non traffic "fun" miles so no silly stuck in traffic ticking over type stuff.Touch-wood the battery seems as strong as ever and I only need to go near the start button and it instantly fires up.
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That's impressive.The battery I have in the thou I think is five years old and going for a 6th - that's the best I've managed so far!
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I suppose there is a chance that between 1998 and 2001 when I brought it (01) there could of been a battery change
What make is it?. The original in mine was 'GS' I think. Even if it had been changed before you bought the bike, which is unlikely, it would still be a long life.
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I think the acid pack issue is because of misuse with rather life changing consequences. Inevitable rule change I'm afraid.
Yes it says in darrsi's Wemoto link that it's a government response to an increase in acid related violent crimes.
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I suppose there is a chance that between 1998 and 2001 when I brought it (01) there could of been a battery change
What make is it?. The original in mine was 'GS' I think. Even if it had been changed before you bought the bike, which is unlikely, it would still be a long life.
Yes I think I remember it being a GS - can not tell in situ but I remember when I took it out
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I think the acid pack issue is because of misuse with rather life changing consequences. Inevitable rule change I'm afraid.
Yes it says in darrsi's Wemoto link that it's a government response to an increase in acid related violent crimes.
Very popular with certain communities and now spread.
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You mean ex boyfriends of TV reality stars? :rolleyes
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:thumbup
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Very popular with certain communities
Not sure what that means but it's certainly rife.
Anyway Fazersharp a 20 year old battery in a bike you've had coming on 18 years.Get a new bike ya tight bastard! :lol
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Early Fazers still on their first batteries aren’t that rare.
Mine spins the motor up OK and IIRC Red98 is on the original too. :)
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On Halfords site:
Yeah cos of twats throwing acid in peoples faces in London, ( moped gangs etc )
What Is Changing?
From July 1st 2018, the law around motorcycle batteries is changing. After this date, anyone wishing to buy a motorcycle battery with a separate acid pack will require an Explosives, Precursors and Poisons (EPP) Licence, costing £39.50. Purchasing acid packs without a licence will be illegal and could incur a fine. To keep things simple for you, we will no longer sell batteries with separate acid packs after July 1st. Instead, we will only stock pre-filled motorcycle batteries from Yuasa - the leading motorcycle battery brand. You won't need a licence to buy these pre-filled batteries and they come fully charged, ready to fit.
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I didn't use the quote button properly. sorry
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Yeah cos of twats throwing acid in peoples faces in London, ( moped gangs etc )
It's been rife, and not just the 'moped gangs'. Revenge by jealous ex partners, fights in clubs etc. Hidden in water bottles, and not obvious like a knife.
Change in the law the only way to go. A minor inconvenience. Hopefully pre filled batteries don't stay on the shelves for long.
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Were people really using gel pack batteries for attacks.A rather expensive and fiddly way to get acid.
But people who carry out acid attacks - well words fail me to be honest.
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Were people really using gel pack batteries for attacks.A rather expensive and fiddly way to get acid.
But people who carry out acid attacks - well words fail me to be honest.
I assume that they were using the 6 compartment acid pack which was supplied with normal lead acid battery's for home filling.
Do gel pack batteries come already filled and sealed?. If so I guess they're unaffected by the legislation. Never bought one so wouldn't know.
Yes they're complete assholes who carry out these attacks.
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Do gel pack batteries come already filled and sealed?. If so I guess they're unaffected by the legislation. Never bought one so wouldn't know.
The battery came empty. You took the gel pack out of the box and just pushed it into the top of the battery, then leave it for 15 minutes or so. Check all the gel has dropped into the battery. Then fit the seal. Stick it in the bike and press play.
The nice thing is you knew you were getting a band new battery, not somethingt that's been sitting around on a potentially dodgy charging rack for months on end.
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I think that's the problem. Easy to pierce the 6 cells one by one and empty into a bottle.
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Early Fazers still on their first batteries aren’t that rare.
Mine spins the motor up OK and IIRC Red98 is on the original too. :)
nearly FAZERIDER :) had to replace it last year , bikes a 98 so lasted 19 years :thumbup Bought an identical replacement GS YUSSA , bet you it dosn't last as long......... :rolleyes
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Early Fazers still on their first batteries aren’t that rare.
Mine spins the motor up OK and IIRC Red98 is on the original too. :)
nearly FAZERIDER :) had to replace it last year , bikes a 98 so lasted 19 years :thumbup Bought an identical replacement GS YUSSA , bet you it dosn't last as long......... :rolleyes
Ah, OK. Perhaps they are getting rare now. :lol
You don’t get this sort of lifetime without it being a top-notch battery, I’m sure you won’t regret buying the same again.
Mine’s had an easy life up to now… they definitely thrive on regular use, I’ve never needed to put it on charge. Now my commuting days are over (I got made redundant in summer) it is probably going to need an occasional maintenance charge.
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So I jumped the battery from the car, charged it for half an hour, then got it on the trickle charger for a few hours. Left it over night to see if it would hold charge and it did, put it on the bike used it for a couple of days with no problems. Have now left it for 24 hours and still holding charge. Hopefully keep me going for a bit whilst I sort the chain and sprockets.
Cheers all.
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I think that's the problem. Easy to pierce the 6 cells one by one and empty into a bottle.
But is anybody going to buy a new battery for that? Might take the acid out of a knackered battery.
And a bottle of caustic soda is just a couple of quid.
Do our gel pack batteries really need to be banned?
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I think that's the problem. Easy to pierce the 6 cells one by one and empty into a bottle.
But is anybody going to buy a new battery for that? Might take the acid out of a knackered battery.
And a bottle of caustic soda is just a couple of quid.
Do our gel pack batteries really need to be banned?
I was wondering about that. I bet they don't buy brand new motorcycle battery kits very often to get hold of the acid. It's one of those situations where the legislation catches-all I imagine.
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I blame the EU.
Gotta blame somebody or something :lol
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This is the charger-optimiser I use.