Cam chain buzzing noise

[darrsi]

Thought I'd ask the question on here about an issue I've had for ages.


Had what sounded to me like a metallic vibration issue going on for a long time, and due to my sensitive hearing it's been sending me nuts.
But I always imagined it to be be radiator protector grill so last week I used a metal glue to reinforce the grill with a thin metal rod across the bottom, but the noise was still there the next day.


So I just went up to my mechanic and he said maybe the camchain was playing a different tune, for whatever reason, but I know that chirpy noise from hearing it on my bike before and it doesn't sound the same. I then suggested maybe the water pump, and he said that was also a possibility too?


After getting home from the bike shop I asked a mate if he could have a listen and see if he could fathom it out, and he did pinpoint the noise coming from the camchain tensioner area.


Just to reiterate, this is not the normal cam chain chirpy noise, this is a high pitched vibrating/buzzing metallic sound that only happens when the bike is warmed up.


Remember, I mainly only do short runs to and from work, so the last time I had cam chain noise it almost took a year to move onto the next notch on the tensioner.
If it is just between clicks then I can just wait and put up with the irritating noise. And the bike itself is running sweet as a nut.

Anyone else had this vibrating noise before, not including the standard cam chain noise?

[BBROWN1664]

give the bike some beans on a run to see if that makes it click on a notch. If not, put it in gear and rock the bike back and forth a bit with the engine off .

[darrsi]

give the bike some beans on a run to see if that makes it click on a notch. If not, put it in gear and rock the bike back and forth a bit with the engine off .

Haha, I said exactly the same to my mate earlier, and even rocked the bike in gear in front of him while I was there.
I also told him that the short runs I do can prolong cam chain noise before the tensioner clicks another notch so need to give the bike a blast. 


Like I said this is not the normal cam chain noise that I've experienced before, so in the same breath I don't want to cause any further issues by ragging it either.
The mechanic didn't seem too phased about it so weather permitting I'll take it out for a livener tomorrow, although I must say I am rapidly losing faith with the condition of the roads as I've hit potholes recently that were filled with water that have caught me right out, so I won't be going too mad.

[unfazed]

Does it happen in at tickover or reving the engine in neutral or when the clutch is pulled in?

[darrsi]

Does it happen in at tickover or reving the engine in neutral or when the clutch is pulled in?

Noise starts when the bike is warmed up.
If I pull the clutch in when moving the noise subsides, but if I rev the engine when rolling with the clutch in it "vibrates".


But then I found (when warmed up) I can put the bike on the stand and raise the revs to about 3000rpm and recreate the noise. On tickover without revs you can't hear it.


For that reason I thought it may be a fracture impeller in the water pump, but when I went to my mates house he got a screwdriver out and 'listened' to different parts of the engine and the main noise definitely came from when he had the screwdriver on the cam chain tensioner.

[darrsi]

On tickover you can still hear the usual cam chain rattle, but when I raise the revs a bit it's a metallic buzzing noise.

[darrsi]

When I started the bike before going to the bike shop the noise couldn't be heard when I raised the revs, but about a mile up the road it became quite obvious, so maybe the warmer oil made a difference?

[Gaz66]

Hi.


Have u removed the Ignition cover on the right side of the crank to confirm u defo have a slack chain, also a good time to ensure nowts come loose in there, if it is a slack chain & the tensioner refuses to click up a notch, u can ease it up a notch with a screwdriver up inside the cover, push chain away from the tensioner a tad & see if she clicks up a notch, not the correct way obviously, but it'll confirm if it's actually chain noise you're hearing if this quietens it down, OEM tensioners are a bit iffy, most of us invest in a manual tensioner, they all wear out at some point, as do chains.
 

[darrsi]

Hi.


Have u removed the Ignition cover on the right side of the crank to confirm u defo have a slack chain, also a good time to ensure nowts come loose in there, if it is a slack chain & the tensioner refuses to click up a notch, u can ease it up a notch with a screwdriver up inside the cover, push chain away from the tensioner a tad & see if she clicks up a notch, not the correct way obviously, but it'll confirm if it's actually chain noise you're hearing if this quietens it down, OEM tensioners are a bit iffy, most of us invest in a manual tensioner, they all wear out at some point, as do chains.
 

I haven't removed that cover and I'm not gonna get a chance today either, but like I said I had cam chain rattle before for up to a year so I know what that noise is all about, and it isn't the same noise at all, plus that older noise isn't really there either.
Bit weird as well that it only makes a noise when the bike has warmed up, whereas when I had cam chain rattle before it was instant on start up.


I don't know if this is relevant but I'll mention it anyway, when I replaced my clutch plates a few months back I changed my oil due to an accidental spillage when the clutch cover was off, and I pulled out about 3 litres of oil from the sump.
I only put 2.7 litres back in though to play it safe (2.5 litre sump) as unfortunately my sump glass window is not clear anymore so I can't casually check my oil at a glance.
I change it every 4000 miles anyway so it's no big deal.
But I'm wondering if having more oil before may have drowned out the noise?
Clutching at straws a bit here, but I'm keeping open minded for all possibilities.

[Gnasher]

OEM tensioners are a bit iffy, most of us invest in a manual tensioner, they all wear out at some point, as do chains.

Rubbish.  I've worked on hundreds of Fazers over the years, I personally have never known one to fail, ever.  It's always been a lack of revs end of.  Either a quick removal and reset or as mentioned go give it some beans in the lower gears.

A very old culprit of a buzzing noise on the box eye at various revs/speeds, with the clutch in or out is/was front indicator mounts.  These even when new aren't that good, poor tolerances between the hole in the firing/indicator base/mounting plate and the rubber dampening is/was very hit and miss at best at best, none of which improve with time.  The go to fix is to remove and fill the mounting spaces with quality black silicon.  Just solidly securing the mounting will not stop the buzzing/vibration, you need the damping effect of the silicon around the mount.

I'd suggest taking a look at these first, it's very likely the mod has been done but whatever was used has now become brittle due to time.       

[darrsi]

I did actually try all the usual culprits that I sorted out years ago, so did grab the indicators but the noise is from the engine area.
Years ago I also put soft velcro strips under my windshield and amalgamating tape on the headlight bulbs as they vibrated too.
The bike needs to be warmed up before it starts buzzing which kind of confuses matters because I would've imagined it would've sounded worse with cold oil?

[unfazed]

Buzzing is usually caused by vibration between items, and would be a common sound from the Tensioner with a metal bar up against it, It would be extremely unusual to have an issue with the tensioner on a bike with very regular oil changes. Any issue with the Yamaha Tensioner I have come across are usually rust in the tensioner from lack of use and lack of oil changes. It could be as simple as a perished rubber allowing metal on metal or a loose dowel in a hole, the list is endless. Are all the tank mount intact and bolts tight. I came across some time ago where the owner of a Fireblade was being driven demented by a metallic buzzzing sound which was a a bolt dropped by a mechanic on to the exhaust which was jammed in between two downpipes

[darrsi]

Buzzing is usually caused by vibration between items, and would be a common sound from the Tensioner with a metal bar up against it, It would be extremely unusual to have an issue with the tensioner on a bike with very regular oil changes. Any issue with the Yamaha Tensioner I have come across are usually rust in the tensioner from lack of use and lack of oil changes. It could be as simple as a perished rubber allowing metal on metal or a loose dowel in a hole, the list is endless. Are all the tank mount intact and bolts tight. I came across some time ago where the owner of a Fireblade was being driven demented by a metallic buzzzing sound which was a a bolt dropped by a mechanic on to the exhaust which was jammed in between two downpipes

I'm even more confused now to be honest.


After work earlier I start the bike up and there is a mild cam chain rattle going on straight away from cold. I totally know this noise and I'm very familiar with it.


Then a mile or so down the road the buzzing starts, but AS WELL as the cam chain rattle.
The thing is the cam chain noise is a fairly consistent speed, but the buzzing sounds more intense and does increase or decrease with engine revs.
But surely you can't have two noises at different speeds from one moving part, which is why I'm starting to doubt it is the cam chain at all?

[unfazed]

I suggest looking elsewhere around the engine and down pipes. Anything loose in the echaust?

[darrsi]

Went round a mates house so we could both have a listen and reckon it's coming from the top of the engine and probably the tappets/valve clearances causing the noise.


How much of a job is it to sort that out as it's not something I'm too familiar with?
And also is the noise actually causing any harm or is it okay for now?

[unfazed]

Checking the clearance is not a difficult job just a little time consuming. Remove the tank and  Coils. Remove the bolt holding the thermostat housing,
Undo the rocker cover blts. Lift it up and take it out the right side. Might need to move the thermostat housing a little to gain clearance.Remove the Stator cover and tie it up out of the way. Turn the engine clockwise. T mark on rotor lines up with front joint of the crankshaft. If the cam shaft dots don't line up almost exactly, it is a sure sign the cam chain is worn.

Turn the engine over to check the clearances and that everything is good at the top of the engine.
Clearances out of tolerance take a bit longer as the carbs,  cam tensioner and cams must come off
 

[Gnasher]

Fazers don't have tappets, they have inverted bucket and shims.  As with all bucket and shims valves the clearances get tighter not looser, in use unless you've got a serious lack of oil problem and the cam have worn, again very unlikely.  You don't want an utterly silent top end, this will ultimately burn out you valve seats if allowed to run tight i.e. below the min spec/clearance.

Fazers rarely need much adjustment, most don't need touching until 50k plus.  It's fairly straight forward to check, if you know what you're doing and have all the tools that is.  If any are tight it's a 'cams off/out job.

I'll refer you to the answer I gave you on 5 Mar.  If it's not that it will very likely be some other item that now either gone brittle or touching the frame/firing etc.  Another big and difficult to find (if you don't know what you're looking for) is the H1 blub cover in the headlight and/or the mountings for the headlight unit and clocks, same for the radiator/fan mounts.  All will vibrate once the mountings become brittle/worn.     


   

[darrsi]

Fazers don't have tappets, they have inverted bucket and shims.  As with all bucket and shims valves the clearances get tighter not looser, in use unless you've got a serious lack of oil problem and the cam have worn, again very unlikely.  You don't want an utterly silent top end, this will ultimately burn out you valve seats if allowed to run tight i.e. below the min spec/clearance.

Fazers rarely need much adjustment, most don't need touching until 50k plus.  It's fairly straight forward to check, if you know what you're doing and have all the tools that is.  If any are tight it's a 'cams off/out job.

I'll refer you to the answer I gave you on 5 Mar.  If it's not that it will very likely be some other item that now either gone brittle or touching the frame/firing etc.  Another big and difficult to find (if you don't know what you're looking for) is the H1 blub cover in the headlight and/or the mountings for the headlight unit and clocks, same for the radiator/fan mounts.  All will vibrate once the mountings become brittle/worn.     


   

The noise is definitely from the top end of the engine, we both took turns on the throttle to enhance the sound so the other could check all around it and we both came to the same conclusion.
If truth be told it's not a job that I would attempt, I would let people who know what they're doing sort it out.


As for the H1 bulb, I did a post on here years ago about that vibrating. I found that wrapping self amalgamating tape around the bulb where it rattles on the headlight casing  sorted that out.


Back to my question though, does this need attention sooner rather than later? Is it hurting the bike in any way, rather than just irritating the hell out of me?


When I replaced the clutch I changed the oil and I put exactly 2.7 litres in due to my oil window being permanently blacked out, but the oil is changed every 4000 miles with the same fully synthetic oil I've been using for years now.

[darrsi]

Bike's just above the 63,000 mark now.

[darrsi]

Popped up to the bike shop for another set of ears to have a listen, and he reckons there is definite cam chain noise which I knew anyway, but he then said the buzzing might be the cam chain guides that are worn.


Need to get the bike in for an inspection when I have time to spare, which I haven't got a lot of at the moment.

[darrsi]

Just an update on this.


It was the cam chain along with the associated parts around it that were worn and needed replacing.


But just a word of caution for anyone thinking of getting this type of issue sorted in the future.
It really isn't straightforward at all, as not only are some parts hard to get, but one important part is actually discontinued as well.
I eventually ended up getting parts myself from abroad, but they are few and far between without a doubt.


To make matters worse, due to these bikes getting on a bit now the engine parts are not so easy to remove either, as I have just found out the hard way, resulting in engine removal.


Add to that, the damn exhaust header bolts get worse with age too so have also been a problem.
I "snapped" one a few years ago on removal, and when I say snapped it was like I was undoing a stud made of chalk.
And on refitting my exhaust my mechanic snapped one too.


All in all it's going to be an expensive and drawn out experience, but the reason I persevered is because I know the bike and everything else that's been done to it, so when I get it back on Monday it should last for many more years.

[fazersharp]

Epic faff. So it looks like you were right all along in your suspicions and were not imagining things.

[darrsi]

https://www.cmsnl.com/

Helped me out very quickly.

If parts are on their website they either have them or can get them, otherwise you won't see them at all.

[darrsi]

Epic faff. So it looks like you were right all along in your suspicions and were not imagining things.

Cost aside, they did say my pistons, valves, etc, all looked good, so my regular oil changes paid off, and the fact my cam chain has not faltered for 64K is also a sign of reasonable maintenance.


My bad, I overlooked this part of the engine, and I'm paying the price, but lesson learned.

[fazersharp]

Epic faff. So it looks like you were right all along in your suspicions and were not imagining things.

Cost aside, they did say my pistons, valves, etc, all looked good, so my regular oil changes paid off, and the fact my cam chain has not faltered for 64K is also a sign of reasonable maintenance.


My bad, I overlooked this part of the engine, and I'm paying the price, but lesson learned.

I don't know what maintenance can be done to prolong the cam chain actually over what you have already been doing maintenance wise. Other people on here have higher mileage fazers without any camchain issues wonder if it was a previous owner that have caused its demise