Date: 29-03-24  Time: 12:57 pm

Author Topic: Looking at computer options  (Read 10894 times)

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Looking at computer options
« on: 21 June 2014, 05:34:38 pm »
Well, my old desk top (on Windows XP) is probably going to expire soon, as M/soft have now withdrawn support for that ancient ( :rolleyes) system. Was in a shop in Oxford the other day, forget the name of the place, but they actually seem to know their stuff, have everything plugged in and running to demonstrate, and a guy there spent a good 20 mins showing me a couple of things, after asking what I need a computer to do - which I thought was great, cos most places just seem to want to sell you whatever their latest promotion is, and then can't tell you bugger all about it.

So, I was looking at an iMac laptop - tres expensif! (£850) - but, it has very good photo software already installed, at least, as good as I'm ever gonna need, and is very easy to use; basically, does everything I want from a computer. Unfortunately, I didn't note the exact model, so will have to pop back and check, so I can see if it's cheaper elsewhere.

However, as little as I know about computers, I know there's likely to be a cheaper option that's every bit as good for what I need it for, so I wondered if anyone had any recommendations before I go and splash the cash. £850 still seems an awful lot of dosh for what I'll actually use a computer for, but it is tempting to go for something a little more up-to-date than I'm used to this time as a bit of a treat.

TL;DR Recommend me a laptop.


mickvp

  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,247
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #1 on: 21 June 2014, 06:10:43 pm »
So....what DO you use it for? For £850 you could get an awfully high spec Windows system.

Fazerider

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,214
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #2 on: 21 June 2014, 06:11:57 pm »
You were probably shown the 13" Macbook Air
It's a smart bit of kit, but you can save a fair bit by going for a Mac mini if you don't need portability and already have a decent screen. That's what I use... lack of a built in optical drive is the only downside I've found.

Dead Eye

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,753
  • What doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger.
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #3 on: 21 June 2014, 06:27:09 pm »
Apple make some interesting products... unfortunately you pay an awful lot for the sake of them putting a half eaten apple logo on it...

The other downside is that if -anything- goes wrong with it you are pretty much at the mercy of their tech guys. There's a lot more support for less cost with a Windows machine which is just as powerful and is likely to be something you are more familiar with.

If you are really in to your Photo's and Videos then there are options for that, but usually anything in this field is expensive. Adobe, who produce Photoshop etc, are now owned by Apple so you are still able to get to get top spec software for Windows machines.

The laptop market is quite fluid and where it is possible to get a decent purchase, it can be a minefield. For me personally, I've liked the look of a lot of the newer Dell machines - I have one myself. Previously I've had Acer machines, but these were bought for mobility rather than for performance.

As much as I find it easy to know what I want out of a PC, how to build them and choose the right components, I find it very hard to make recommendations as most people have a much lower budget than I do as I'm an enthusiast and with that comes some eccentricity.

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #4 on: 21 June 2014, 07:08:34 pm »
You were probably shown the 13" Macbook Air
It's a smart bit of kit, but you can save a fair bit by going for a Mac mini if you don't need portability and already have a decent screen. That's what I use... lack of a built in optical drive is the only downside I've found.


Fazerider, yeah, I think that's the one I was looking at. I think I want to go for a laptop this time, not only for the portability, but also because I'm pushed for space at home. The battery life of up to 12 hours seems pretty good, although it will be mostly for home use I think.

But I did like the photo software - allows me to do a number of things, such as enhance detail in shadow areas, change contrasts etc, and comes pre-installed (seems to me you get less and less ready-to-go software with computers these days).

So photography and an easy-to-use method of organising my pics (upwards of 3000 now!), making albums etc - my current desk top uses HP Photosmart - it's so frustrating, any task takes forever. This iMac was so easy to work with in comparison.

There is also a possibility I might want to do a project using my photos and adding text in the future - it's something I have half an idea of at the moment, but couldn't expand more on that right now. Kind of like writing an illustrated reference book.

I will want to use it to play music on too, so will need a decent option on (compact) speaker systems. Again, something like 500 albums in my collection now.

I do have a stand-alone hard drive which everything is currently backed up onto, 1tb, so basically endless storage space that I'll probably never fill.

And of course, general internet use.

But if it has a good selection of software and capability, who knows what I might end up wanting to do in the future.

Liam, quite possibly a Windows system will also do everything I want, but where can I go to try it out, and be shown directly what it's capability will be? That's the thing with this shop in Oxford - it's the only place I know of where you can do that. You tell them what you want to be able to do, and they physically demonstrate it right there in front of you. I know I'd probably pay over the odds there, and of course there will always be an element of them trying to sell me what they want to sell (they are an Apple specialist after all, so that's what they do exclusively). But they can offer friendly back up, relatively locally, which to a numpty like me, has to be worth something!

evesdad

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - 2010 z1000
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #5 on: 21 June 2014, 07:09:05 pm »
Once you go mac you'll never go back! :)

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #6 on: 21 June 2014, 07:19:36 pm »
Once you go mac you'll never go back! :)

But what in particular makes you say that? Ease of use? How? Easy to find your way around? Bearing in mind an abacus can still confuse me sometimes  :lol

slimwilly

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,698
  • I love to ride them hills
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Faired Gen2
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #7 on: 21 June 2014, 07:31:22 pm »
You can get a hell of alot of Laptop for £400.00 with the lastest Windows,,why spend more?
An ageing test pilot for home grown widgets that may fail at anytime.

evesdad

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - 2010 z1000
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #8 on: 21 June 2014, 08:12:38 pm »
Nick I am a computer numpty, had my mac since 2009  used daily Mostly just browsing internet I will admit.  In that time I could probably count the number of times it has crashed or I have had to force quit anything on the fingers of both hands ( always after visiting "dodgy" sites). Apple sends regular updates for security/bugs.Latest change from mountain lion to mavericks was a free download. I still use i photo for photographs it allows basic editing/sorting. Daughter is bit of an apple fan, on her second macbook and we have just bought her a new iMac . She also uses an iPad to type up letters in uni. Works iPhone and my mac automatically synch calendars with each other. Can use google chrome browser and synch youtube etc to chrome cast plugged in to my tv. iTunes music plays through my airplay enabled av amp and all set themselves up as I wouldn't have a clue! Mac also comes with all the "home" software you need!

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #9 on: 21 June 2014, 08:55:18 pm »
You can get a hell of alot of Laptop for £400.00 with the lastest Windows,,why spend more?

But what software do you get with it? How do I know that what comes with it is suitable for what I want to do? You go into PC World, and they're useless, can't tell you anything.

evesdad

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - 2010 z1000
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #10 on: 21 June 2014, 09:02:24 pm »
http://www.apple.com/uk/creativity-apps/mac/




If you are "friends" with a student go to an apple store and ask about educational discounts.

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #11 on: 21 June 2014, 09:18:39 pm »
http://www.apple.com/uk/creativity-apps/mac/




If you are "friends" with a student go to an apple store and ask about educational discounts.


CHRISTOOOOOOOOO!!!  :lol


evesdad, I don't think I need convincing that it's a good system, but have to be sure at that price.
« Last Edit: 21 June 2014, 09:22:22 pm by nick crisp »

Dead Eye

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,753
  • What doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger.
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #12 on: 22 June 2014, 12:35:47 am »
I believe you may be better of with a Mac for your personal needs and the ability to get some help from your local store - I won't dispute that. I just felt it fair to mention that you will pay a premium for this service so that you are aware upfront rather than discover this later on. I don't have a great deal of experience with Mac's, but I have used them in the past.

It is possible to get a very good spec Windows (or even Linux, but I wouldn't recommend it for you personally) laptop. Software is a whole other massive discussion, but having said that Photoshop is a well known quantity. It is made by Adobe, who are owned by Apple so I would expect your local store to be able to give tutorials or advice on it. The catch is that it costs a fortune and I believe these days they run a pay-per-month system rather than an out-right purchase method.

ChristoT

  • Alleged Foc-u Daphnis & Chloe expert
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,207
  • Fluent in English, French and bullshit!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - Saab 9-3, caravan, hang glider
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #13 on: 22 June 2014, 12:49:26 am »
http://www.apple.com/uk/creativity-apps/mac/




If you are "friends" with a student go to an apple store and ask about educational discounts.


CHRISTOOOOOOOOO!!!  :lol


evesdad, I don't think I need convincing that it's a good system, but have to be sure at that price.


Ha, you'll have to start being nice to me now! :lol

Apple's main problem (which I also faced when I tried Linux) is the lack of compatability. Unfortunately for Apple users, Windows is pretty much a global standard, most software is written for it. Sure, you can get emulators, but if you have to do that, why not get the original from the word go?

I personally don't like Apples. I don't like the layout, I don't like their prices, I don't like the fact that 90% of Apple devotees have hipster beards, berets, and drink wheatgrass and carrot juice (sorry evesdad! :lol ).
The Deef's apprentice

Dead Eye

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,753
  • What doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger.
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #14 on: 22 June 2014, 08:07:58 am »
While I see your point, it is a bit outdated in my opinion. Compatibility is becoming much less of an issue and if it wasn't for my extreme love of gaming then I would probably use a Linux machine. I already have two that I use separately to my main Desktop, but I'll admit there is a bit of a learning curve.

In any case, this is a tangent to the topic at hand. I wouldn't recommend Linux to nick and while I have no love for Mac's, however I think it might be a good match for him providing he can get a good level of support from professionals at a low cost

Slaninar

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,327
  • Lookin' like a streak of lightnin'
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
    • BikeGremlin
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #15 on: 22 June 2014, 08:20:02 am »
I can not recommend you to avoid laptops enough. Unless absolutely necessary to work on the road.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

ChristoT

  • Alleged Foc-u Daphnis & Chloe expert
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,207
  • Fluent in English, French and bullshit!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - Saab 9-3, caravan, hang glider
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #16 on: 22 June 2014, 08:34:56 am »
I can not recommend you to avoid laptops enough. Unless absolutely necessary to work on the road.

Slaninar has a good point, desktops are dirt cheap these days! And when you're on the road, your phone does most of the work, right?
The Deef's apprentice

Fazerider

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,214
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #17 on: 22 June 2014, 10:17:10 am »
Totally agree with Slaninar:  laptops are horrible no matter which operating system they use.


Charlie Brooker's take on the Mac vs. Windows argument still cracks me up. :lol

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,915
  • 10 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #18 on: 22 June 2014, 11:02:08 am »
Desktop man here to, easy to upgrade bits inside and keep it running far longer than a laptop, - my pc is a bit like triggers broom.
The thing that I see some with laptops do is they buy a mouse for it - and a pad and some extra speakers, -- oh and then cause of crap battery life its pluged in so you may as well have a desktop and for the price of apple you could have a good windows system and a laptop for the garden and get hold of a photoshop 8 for no money.
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

rustyrider

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,057
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #19 on: 22 June 2014, 11:22:44 am »
Personally I don't see what the worry is with Microsoft ceasing support for XP, all their updates ever used to do was cause things that did work properly to stop working.  I've a desktop machine that I use for video editing and a laptop that I use for everything else.  Both running XP and I doubt that will change.  I can use the laptop in the living room (as I am now), in the garden and I can put it in my rucksack when I go away and use it wherever I am.  I've never been a great fan of anything with an i in front of it's name as they will only work with something else with an i in front of it's name.  I was once given an iPod but found that to load any music onto it I had to install iTunes on my computer which then took a huge amount of disk space and tried to take over everything to do with music files.  With any other bog standard mp3 player, I can just copy files over from the laptop and they play.

Windows 8 now integrates calendars, email settings and address book online so does nothing that a Mac can.  However, to give the other side of the coin, a friend who is a complete computer numpty went over to a Mac After his son persuaded him that he might find it easier.  Most of the time he does but still has problems with things he used to be able to do on a pc that he can't do or aren't as straightforward.  He's also changed his phone for an iPhone as he had all sorts of problems getting his previous Samsung Galaxy to work with the Mac and hates it.

As said, you'll pay a lot more for a Mac than an equivalent spec Windows machine but as Apple have their own shops you are likely to get better support than from the ignorant box shifters that work in PC World.   It just depends if you need it.  You've obviously got on fine with a Windows machine up until now, so what makes you think you'll need it in the future?

Slaninar

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,327
  • Lookin' like a streak of lightnin'
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
    • BikeGremlin
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #20 on: 22 June 2014, 11:50:02 am »
Personally I don't see what the worry is with Microsoft ceasing support for XP, all their updates ever used to do was cause things that did work properly to stop working. 

Try googling "conficker". It might change your mind on the updates.


I've a desktop machine that I use for video editing and a laptop that I use for everything else.  Both running XP and I doubt that will change. 




Most new laptops don't have XP compatible drivers. Soon to be the case with motherboards as well. I am an XP fan myself, but the change is forced. Planned obsolescence (what a word in English  :)  ).

I can use the laptop in the living room (as I am now), in the garden and I can put it in my rucksack when I go away and use it wherever I am.  I've never been a great fan of anything with an i in front of it's name as they will only work with something else with an i in front of it's name.  I was once given an iPod but found that to load any music onto it I had to install iTunes on my computer which then took a huge amount of disk space and tried to take over everything to do with music files.  With any other bog standard mp3 player, I can just copy files over from the laptop and they play.

Windows 8 now integrates calendars, email settings and address book online so does nothing that a Mac can.  However, to give the other side of the coin, a friend who is a complete computer numpty went over to a Mac After his son persuaded him that he might find it easier.  Most of the time he does but still has problems with things he used to be able to do on a pc that he can't do or aren't as straightforward.  He's also changed his phone for an iPhone as he had all sorts of problems getting his previous Samsung Galaxy to work with the Mac and hates it.

As said, you'll pay a lot more for a Mac than an equivalent spec Windows machine but as Apple have their own shops you are likely to get better support than from the ignorant box shifters that work in PC World.   It just depends if you need it.  You've obviously got on fine with a Windows machine up until now, so what makes you think you'll need it in the future?




I-phone is a nice, practical thing. I don't have it, but a friend who is always on the road uses it a lot - for business as well as fun.


Like most other things - they have good and bad sides, you need to have your own criteria on which you base your decision - for yourself.  :)


Oh, and most of it is made to take your money, 90% of things I see ordinary people do on a PC can be done with both software and hardware from 10 years ago. But you can't even buy that (except 2nd hand with no guarantee) now.
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

rustyrider

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,057
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #21 on: 22 June 2014, 12:22:14 pm »
I-phone is a nice, practical thing. I don't have it, but a friend who is always on the road uses it a lot - for business as well as fun.
The biggest problem I know of with a number of people with the iPhone is using it as it's name suggests, as a phone.  It appears that each generation seems to get worse, it is a small iPad that will work as a phone if you ask it nicely and the audio quality is pretty poor too.  I've always used Nokia as they make phones and most of the network infrastructure too, so with my latest have gone down the Windows phone route.  Not because I wanted a Windows phone but because I wanted a Nokia.  Since getting it, it does everything an iPhone, or for that matter, an Android device, can do, sometimes better, sometimes not as well, but it will do it.  Not only that but my wife tried it and found it so much more intuitive to use than her Samsung Android phone, she changed to one too.  Within 2 days she'd sent me a picture message, something she'd never been able to work out how to do in the past!

Microsoft released an update against Conficker in 2008 so while it may have been a problem 5 years ago isn't any more.  Third party security software will deal with it anyway.

True, if you buy a new machine it is unlikely you will be able to run XP on it but if you are keeping an old one then you can stick with what you have and what you know.  My point is that just because MS are no longer supporting XP doesn't mean you have to go out and buy a new machine with a supported operating system immediately.  What can the new operating systems do that XP can't?  Probably quite a lot of things but are they things you need or want to do?


evesdad

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - 2010 z1000
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #22 on: 22 June 2014, 02:44:15 pm »
http://www.apple.com/uk/creativity-apps/mac/




If you are "friends" with a student go to an apple store and ask about educational discounts.


CHRISTOOOOOOOOO!!!  :lol


evesdad, I don't think I need convincing that it's a good system, but have to be sure at that price.


Ha, you'll have to start being nice to me now! :lol

Apple's main problem (which I also faced when I tried Linux) is the lack of compatability. Unfortunately for Apple users, Windows is pretty much a global standard, most software is written for it. Sure, you can get emulators, but if you have to do that, why not get the original from the word go?

I personally don't like Apples. I don't like the layout, I don't like their prices, I don't like the fact that 90% of Apple devotees have hipster beards, berets, and drink wheatgrass and carrot juice (sorry evesdad! :lol ).



ChrisoT  I'm bald as a coot wear a Dai cap and only eat red meat ;)    Hip I ain't!
« Last Edit: 22 June 2014, 02:45:16 pm by evesdad »

Dead Eye

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,753
  • What doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger.
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #23 on: 22 June 2014, 04:13:31 pm »
I agree with most of the points made above; if you don't need mobility then a Desktop is always a better choice. They also tend to have much longer life-spans... unless you are an enthusiast...

I'm not sure if it's done these days but Apple did used to allow a dual-boot system to allow Mac OS and Windows to be installed. It's definitely still possible, BUT I don't know if they ship their products like it any more


As for phones;
The iPhone is not for me - as mentioned it is a smaller version of the iPad that can sometimes make calls and I don't like the iPad either.

Android handsets are my preference, but I will fully admit that they can be a bit daunting to novice users as they can be very complex devices.

I did like Windows Phone - Nokia were kind enough to give me a Lumia 810 as I was their "Ambassador" when working for The Carphone Warehouse. They only downside at the time was a significant lack of the applications that I use on my Android phone (currently a Galaxy Note 3). But again, I have quite particular needs and this skews my perspective.


I can seem them being a force to reckon with in the future since Nokia is now owned by Microsoft. Having said that, Motorola were bought by Google and they don't appear to have done much yet... pretty sure the latest Nexus handset was made by LG?

Slaninar

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,327
  • Lookin' like a streak of lightnin'
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
    • BikeGremlin
Re: Looking at computer options
« Reply #24 on: 23 June 2014, 06:00:05 am »
I-phone is a nice, practical thing. I don't have it, but a friend who is always on the road uses it a lot - for business as well as fun.
The biggest problem I know of with a number of people with the iPhone is using it as it's name suggests, as a phone.  It appears that each generation seems to get worse, it is a small iPad that will work as a phone if you ask it nicely and the audio quality is pretty poor too.  I've always used Nokia as they make phones and most of the network infrastructure too, so with my latest have gone down the Windows phone route.  Not because I wanted a Windows phone but because I wanted a Nokia.  Since getting it, it does everything an iPhone, or for that matter, an Android device, can do, sometimes better, sometimes not as well, but it will do it.  Not only that but my wife tried it and found it so much more intuitive to use than her Samsung Android phone, she changed to one too.  Within 2 days she'd sent me a picture message, something she'd never been able to work out how to do in the past!

Microsoft released an update against Conficker in 2008 so while it may have been a problem 5 years ago isn't any more.  Third party security software will deal with it anyway.

True, if you buy a new machine it is unlikely you will be able to run XP on it but if you are keeping an old one then you can stick with what you have and what you know.  My point is that just because MS are no longer supporting XP doesn't mean you have to go out and buy a new machine with a supported operating system immediately.  What can the new operating systems do that XP can't?  Probably quite a lot of things but are they things you need or want to do?


I totally agree. As a happy XP user. However, stopped support has it's limitations. Patches continued would be good, as well as new drivers.


As far as mobiles go - I curse the day they were made, but what can you do....
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.