yamaha need to sort out the prices on new bikes

[ghostbiker]

Was up in bristol today in fowlups, just happened to notice they had an offer on the Bandit 1250 sa with full 3 box  luggage. brand new avail in black or grey only but at UNDER £6000 where as the fz1 without luggage £10500

4k + price diff???? i know the fazer is a much much beter bike but still thats a hell of a price diff
even the new kawasaki Z1000sx with box's is £1500+ under the fz1 price and in my opinion is a better bike than the FZ1

[AyJay]

You do wonder about Yamaha, sometimes. I know they're the only Jap bike company without a big parent behind them (Honda and Suzuki - engines and cars, Kawasaki - er everything from nuclear subs to steel works) so I suppose they have to make the bike business pay every year, but a 4k difference is colossal.


Suzuki are always the cheap and cheerful bikes (bar GSXRs) so you could say that the tech on the FZ1 is worth another grand. You could argue that the better finish and durability is worth another £500, maybe the Bandit is over supplied, but 4 grand. Mmmm. No.


And how they sell FJRs at the moment, I'll never know. It's up there with the new BMW 6 price wise.

[AdieR]

Trouble is prices are set by bean-counters who make an assumption that they should up prices in times off falling sales (ever-stricter bike tests / recession / crap weather etc) to try and keep profits on an even keel, rather than dropping prices to encourage new custom.

[jackojet]

Remember the price of the gen 1 thou back in 2001 over 8k nearer 9k back then. A gixxer thou was £9300 and carnells knocked them out for £8700 , I bought one.
Yamaha soon dropped the price on the gen 1 when they could'nt sell them. I got my 05 reg for £6000 prereg  then. If I remember they were selling them off as following spring gen 2 came out . How Yamaha can justify over 10k for essentially the same bike as the 2006 model is beyond me.

[Tmation]

You do wonder about Yamaha, sometimes. I know they're the only Jap bike company without a big parent behind them (Honda and Suzuki - engines and cars, Kawasaki - er everything from nuclear subs to steel works) so I suppose they have to make the bike business pay every year, but a 4k difference is colossal.

What about their musical instruments, Pianos and electric organs plus Hi Fi equipment and speaker systems etc?


I totally agree on their pricing though, Joke

[VNA - BMW Wank]

If I remember they were selling them off as following spring gen 2 came out . How Yamaha can justify over 10k for essentially the same bike as the 2006 model is beyond me.

 I bought mine pre reg in 2004 for 6k.  It's pre reg because the dealer has registered it to make a sales target, if they hit their target they get a bonus.  But the bike is no longer new and any buyer will be the second keeper, so having made their money on it they discount it to shift it.  A one grand discount seemed fair enough compensation to me for buying a second hand bike with zero miles.
As for the current pricing, it's simple.
2001 I pound  = about 175 yen
2006 1 pound = about 220 yen
2012 1 pound = about 125 yen
Yes that Suzuki deal is amazing.  God knows how they do it.

[tomlinscote]

I agree Yam prices seem to be higher than their opposition. My dad recently looked at a bandit 1250 but the dealer said look for just under 8k we have this gxs f1250 gt fully faired with panniers and top box, decent exhaust and remap plus scotoiler etc etc, no contest!!!
As for who buys FJRs at such a joking high price havs anyone seen the coverage of the Tour de France?? There are loads of them! The french police use them for tooling around the autoroutes and in the UK most of the paramedic bikers use FJRs. Maybe once these agencies have assessed the new 6 cylinder BMW they may alter their opinons or their dealer???
 

[AyJay]

What about their musical instruments, Pianos and electric organs plus Hi Fi equipment and speaker systems etc?

Oh aye, forgot about that.

[flesh]

Dont understand why anyone would buy a new FZ1. List price of 10k.......you are having a laugh. I admit the build quality of the Yamaha's is very good (better than Honda IMO) but not to carry that premium price.
You can get a 2 year old bike for under half the price. I have bought an 18 month old '10 plate with nominal miles for 5k.
Makes a better should than when playing on my organ too 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Yamaha products;

Musical Instruments, Audio/Video, Electronics, Computer related products, Motorcycles, Commuter Vehicles & Scooters, Recreational Vehicles, Boats, Marine Engines, Personal Watercraft, Electrically Power Assisted Bicycles, Automobile Engines, Unmanned Aerial Vehicle, Golf Cars, Power Products, Pools, Compact Industrial Robots, Wheelchairs, Parts including clothing, helmets

[Phil]

Was up in bristol today in fowlups, just happened to notice they had an offer on the Bandit 1250 sa with full 3 box  luggage. brand new avail in black or grey only but at UNDER £6000 where as the fz1 without luggage £10500

4k + price diff???? i know the fazer is a much much beter bike but still thats a hell of a price diff
even the new kawasaki Z1000sx with box's is £1500+ under the fz1 price and in my opinion is a better bike than the FZ1

Maybe they cant sell the Bandit 1250sa without putting it on offer. 

[PaulSmith]

10k for a 150mph+ superbike! And your problem with that is?

[BMCfaz]

I wonder if some of us live in the past a bit, when looking at bike prices. They aren't a cheap alternative to a car like they were up until the '80s/90s, most of the up-to-date, bells-and-whistles, all singing, all dancing models are rich boys toys. There aren't many parts bin specials like the original bandit/fazer/ hornet these days, there's more technology in most bikes than cars, and it's probably only Suzuki that make real, low tech, cheap alternatives.

You only have to look at the average milage ridden, it's dropped to under 4000/year, and some dealers won't touch anything less than 5 years old.

So, sadly, the cheap bike is a thing of the past.

But it does mean that you can get a low milage, dry days only, bike, just a few years old, for half price or less - that'll do for me, and good luck to those who can afford new!

[DryRob]

I like the look of them but I'd never buy new, too much depreciation and you can pick up some good 2nd hand bikes for under 5grand. The issue is finding the dealers that sell these cheaper bikes.

[MEM62]

It's well known that the Mk1 FZS1000 was over-priced when released and Yamaha claimed that they simply could not sell it any cheaper.  Yeah right!  When I was looking for my bike, which is an '05 model I purchased in 2006, the alternatives were either a Bandit 12 or 900 Hornet - neither of which I considered for very longas the Fazer is much better than both.  The small extra premuim I paid on a used bike to get a Fazer was well worth it and I still have the bike today.

[Pat]

I agree Yam prices seem to be higher than their opposition. My dad recently looked at a bandit 1250 but the dealer said look for just under 8k we have this gxs f1250 gt fully faired with panniers and top box, decent exhaust and remap plus scotoiler etc etc, no contest!!!
As for who buys FJRs at such a joking high price havs anyone seen the coverage of the Tour de France?? There are loads of them! The french police use them for tooling around the autoroutes and in the UK most of the paramedic bikers use FJRs. Maybe once these agencies have assessed the new 6 cylinder BMW they may alter their opinons or their dealer???

Just back from a week's run around the Alps & after assorted BMW's (mostly GS ones) I'd say the FJR1300 was easily the most numerous bike I saw out there.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

I wonder if some of us live in the past a bit, when looking at bike prices. They aren't a cheap alternative to a car like they were up until the '80s/90s

Prices ain't as bad as some seem to make out.  We just had it so good through the 00's

At the start of the 90's things weren't too bad, but then the Yen started rising rapidly as the Japanese economy overcooked.

In 95 I bought an 18mnth old CBR600, 3000 miles on the clock, mint condition for 4800 from the dealer.  I sold it 18mnths later after adding 10,000 miles to it for 4600 privately.  Prices were rising.  I toyed with buying a new VFR750 but at just short of 9 grand I decided biking was getting too expensive.  I also remember being one of only a handful of folks who regularly parked a bike in the bike park at work, today you have to be in early to get a space.

Not long after that the Yen started to collapse. Importers decided to protect their dealers by maintaining the prices.  If you reduce prices sharply those many dealers that have a substantial used stock could go under.   But holding firm proved to be a bad move, the grey importers took over, and eventually the main importers had to slash their prices after dealer after dealer was going under as nobody wanted their new stock never mind the used stuff, the grey boys were opening showrooms left right and centre.

So 1999 I bagged a brand new Fazer 600 for 4600 quid.  One friend who bought an official Firestorm for just under 9 grand in 97 was well pissed off when a couple of years later they were selling for just over 6 grand.

From then on we had it real good, the pound was strong and the yen weak, that was until the collapse of the pound a few years ago.  But in real terms bikes are currently cheaper than they were in the mid to late 90's, just we've got used to bargain prices.

Japan meanwhile struggles to try and weaken it's currency against now weak western currencies.   There's no sign at the moment of bargain prices returning.

[pitternator]

why dont they assemble bikes in europe then !
 
whereas jap cars aint so overpriced as against the opposition.
 
I think the japs are not that bothered with bike sales or else they would try harder.Personally I think Yam have done their sums, can make their target profit by selling much fewer high price bikes to a smaller market.Trying to achieve a similar profit by selling volume seems daft and maybe risky , so they stick to niche market. Ducati, Triumph and of course BMW are doing allright by such.Us as consumers are the unlucky ones, cos if you cant or wont stump up for a new bike, then you is stuck.
The Kwak deal seems reasonable given a GS now is 13k if you buy the obligatory dynamic premium package( bikes aint worth jack as just stock)...so wonder why they aint been picked up by buyers ??.. as for bandits , well maybe the image is too cheap now ?
BTW , just back from a big euro tour .I didnt see many FJR at all. Most numerous  bike BTW is definitely the GS , thousands of them....next being kwak nakeds - 1000 and 750.
 
The days of 7k new superbikes is way gone.The typical new bike is more like  12k .....with Geo White gone, dont see anyone will try to pick up the baton and try punting out cheap bikes.

[AdieR]

"why dont they assemble bikes in europe then !"

Yamaha have a plant in France.


The Japanese manufacturers generally have other business interests, and bikes will mostly be a small part of it - the UK in particular is a small market for bikes, particularly big bikes (above 125cc).

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

why dont they assemble bikes in europe then !
 
 whereas jap cars aint so overpriced as against the opposition.

 Jap cars ain't just assembled here, they are built here.  And the reason is to get round trade limits.  If you manufacture in the EU, you can sell as much as you want within the EU.  That's why they came here.
 
 I don't think there's any limits on what any bike manufacturer can sell within the EU.    The volume of sales is too small for anybody to take much interest in.    And it's probably too small, and nor is it a great idea to move factories based on short term currency fluctuations.  I don't think it's a great time for outside manufactures to invest in Europe right now in any case, they'll wanna see what happens with the Euro, and they won't want to invest in the UK while there's talk of pulling out of the common market.   One word - Stability.  Not to mention, as I've pointed out new bike prices are not that expensive in historical terms.  Sales volumes probably ain't that bad either - in recent historical terms (last 3 decades).

I think Yam have done their sums, can make their target profit by selling much fewer high price bikes to a smaller market.

I dunno what their sales figures are.  But I'll take an educated guess that their sales are down and their profits are way down in the UK market.    In reality the price is the same, Yamaha sell for the same price or probably a wee bit less to Yamaha UK, Yamaha UK set the price, but we cant get away from the reality of exchange rates.  It's the importers problem, Yamaha probably won't loose any sleep over the UK, they've got big oppertunites in other markets right now.

Ducati, Triumph and of course BMW are doing allright by such.

This is a great opportunity for Triumph to increase market share in the UK, at least with the stuff they build here.  Ducati and BMW have been hit by the weak pound in the UK, but not to the extent that the Japanese have. Triumph can sell cheaper and make more profit at the same time. 

with Geo White gone, dont see anyone will try to pick up the baton and try punting out cheap bikes.

The bottom line is you can't sell a bike for less than it costs to build it.  If you wanna see where pricing is going watch the exchange rates.  I wouldn't make any prediction that the days of cheap bikes are over, now that we are in the post global capitalistic age it's a brave man who tries to predict long term exchange rates. 
And meanwhile in the UK, for those of us who have managed to hold onto our jobs, and homes,we are still forking out for loans bigger than the houses they are based on. Tying money up in credit and property is not good for the economy. 

The Japanese manufacturers generally have other business interests

Indeed!  As far as bikes are concerned they probably ain't that worried at all about their loss of income from the EU.  Sales are booming in China, India, Brazil etc etc. 
 
That Bandit deal is still amazing!  Is it still made in Japan?  How do they do it?

[chaparral02]

In 95 I bought an 18mnth old CBR600, 3000 miles on the clock, mint condition for 4800 from the dealer.  I sold it 18mnths later after adding 10,000 miles to it for 4600 privately.  Prices were rising.

In 1989 i bought a brandnew GPX600R from my local kawasaki dealer and it cost me £3150

[pitternator]

yes VNA...how do they do it ! ...it dont sit with your argument  does it !..
 
just maybe this ewan and charlie thing has changed the bike market enuff permanently, maybe sportsbikes may never be as popular again...but Yam in particular doesnt have themodel  range to compete in the current market , without slashing prices.ie sell on price alone  Given market realities, that wont happen, hence why I say they are sitting on the fence right now, unwilling to do too much r & d.IMO it is just now a road biased gen3 fazer could pick up some good sales, but would cost too much to develop for them to do it.Sadly the fazer could even be phased out?..however as Yam are still happy to make the even older FJR...who knows !