Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: fazersharp on 09 April 2015, 08:30:29 am
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So why is that then, I know some (i think ) are 1 up 5 down, but why are the gears not all up or all down, is it some sort of throwback from the early engines that has for no reason just carried on to today
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I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
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There is a neutral position for the selector drum between every adjacent gear (obviously one gear has to disengage before the next engages). They can make it available by putting a detent at a halfway position, thus a full movement of the gear lever will go past the neutral and a gentle nudge will let it settle at the mid position.
You could have a drum designed for a halfway detent below first, but the danger is that you'd change down for a tight bend having misjudged which gear you're in and get neutral rather than first.
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There is a neutral position for the selector drum between every adjacent gear (obviously one gear has to disengage before the next engages). They can make it available by putting a detent at a halfway position, thus a full movement of the gear lever will go past the neutral and a gentle nudge will let it settle at the mid position.
You could have a drum designed for a halfway detent below first, but the danger is that you'd change down for a tight bend having misjudged which gear you're in and get neutral rather than first.
I knew some one would give a explanation that I didn't quite understand- thanks anyway :lol
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I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
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I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
Let's say you're hooning it - very tight corner, down to first. And either double tap, or shift twice. Suddenly, you're freewheeling round the corner. Not good. Similarly, if you're on the motorway, and reach for "7th". and you find yourself in neutral? Again, no good.
And the reason to put it between 1st and 2nd is that you almost pull away in first, and nearly always stop in either 2nd or 1st. It's a convenient place for it to be.
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Kawasaki's H2 triples were 1 up, 4 down. Horrible gearboxes, but no idea if that had anything to do with it. I didn't really notice any problems I'd associate with the gear pattern for sure.
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if you're on the motorway, and reach for "7th". and you find yourself in neutral?
No you wouldnt as neutral would be next to 1st which is at the other end, going for 7th would be just like it is now-- a dead end
Let's say you're hooning it - very tight corner, down to first
There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st, maybe a 2nd but not 1st
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Race shift is opposite too ,you can normally change it with rearsets
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There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
Umm 3rd to 1st on the Alps uphill switchbacks ,even mine wont climb in 2nd
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There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
Umm 3rd to 1st on the Alps uphill switchbacks ,even mine wont climb in 2nd
My point exactly. :D
if you're on the motorway, and reach for "7th". and you find yourself in neutral?
No you wouldnt as neutral would be next to 1st which is at the other end, going for 7th would be just like it is now-- a dead end
Just responding to the "what if neutral was at the top of the box" question.
Bigralphie is right, race gearboxes are 1 up, 5 (or however many) down. This is to make it easier to change up a gear coming out of corners. (You just tap your foot, rather than trying to get it under the shifter)
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I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
Well no - 1st IS currently at the bottom?
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There is a neutral position for the selector drum between every adjacent gear (obviously one gear has to disengage before the next engages). They can make it available by putting a detent at a halfway position, thus a full movement of the gear lever will go past the neutral and a gentle nudge will let it settle at the mid position.
You could have a drum designed for a halfway detent below first, but the danger is that you'd change down for a tight bend having misjudged which gear you're in and get neutral rather than first.
I knew some one would give a explanation that I didn't quite understand- thanks anyway :lol
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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There is no corner in the world that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
Umm 3rd to 1st on the Alps uphill switchbacks ,even mine wont climb in 2nd
There is no corner in the world this country (not a track) that I would need to go from hooning to 1st
---------------- go on then
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Last corner of the Hartside cafe road (A686) 100mph to 10mph :lol
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10mph would still be 2nd, there's just too much engine braking in 1st - talking FZS 600 here.
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I would say it's so you can be sure of getting first first time every time. Let's face it once we're past 2nd it's often hard to know what gear we are in, so kicking down to first means we know where it is.
It would still be easy to get 1st wouldnt it as it would just be all the way to the top or bottom
Nope because neutral would be below 1st ;) :D
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10mph would still be 2nd, there's just too much engine braking in 1st - talking FZS 600 here.
On particularly fast hoons, coming up to very tight hairpins, I've used 1st to get round the corner, then 2nd to power out.
That was on a 33hp Fazer though, I'm used to playing the gearbox like a piano, and keeping the revs high to milk out every single pony possible.
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I will take no riding lessons from you sir !
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I will take no riding lessons from you sir !
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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I will take no riding lessons from you sir !
You should!
(even if only as a how-not-to-do-it guide!) :lol
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Perhaps the question is "where else would you put neutral in a bike gearbox,,as written,not the bottom or you would never find the creep gear.
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I'm used to playing the gearbox like a piano
'I'm playing all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order' (Eric Christo Morecambe 1971) :rollin
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Get one of these beauties if you can't handle the gears, it's automatic, pretty rubbish for keeping revs up when doing twisty roads (I know as I've used one) but good for touring where gear changes are less.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/RFS/rrw/ImportedMedia/VFR1200F11254975653.jpg?size=630 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/RFS/rrw/ImportedMedia/VFR1200F11254975653.jpg?size=630)
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I'm used to playing the gearbox like a piano
'I'm playing all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order' (Eric Christo Morecambe 1971) :rollin
Les Dawson comes to mind.
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10mph would still be 2nd, there's just too much engine braking in 1st - talking FZS 600 here.
Checks date of your post - nope, wasn't 1st April.... Shakes head in disbelief.
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Last corner of the Hartside cafe road (A686) 100mph to 10mph :lol
Indeed. And close by, as you come East from Whitfield towards Hexham, you criss the river Allen, have a good thrash up to probably about 80, then hard on the brakes for the left hand hairpin. Tighter than the hartside one (partly because it's a left hander, but it's also steeper) , do this one on second and you'll likely drop it!
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yep I know that one and still get caught out :rollin
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Kawasaki's H2 triples were 1 up, 4 down. Horrible gearboxes, but no idea if that had anything to do with it. I didn't really notice any problems I'd associate with the gear pattern for sure.
My H2 wasn't. Although I did have an ex proddy race 350LC that was 1 up 5down ..... Fecking awful set up
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My 2 cents worth :rolleyes
The reason for neutral between 1st and second was to prevent you going into to neutral accidentley when changing down through the box. It is safer to be in 1st rather than neutral in an emergency situation slowing down.
Racers reverse the pattern allowing then to change gear faster when accelerating out of corners, no need to hook your foot under the pedal just tap it when banked over.
The use of of neutral at the bottom was stopped for safety reasons in the 70s because it was causing accidents and was placed between 1 and 2 which made it inconvenient and standardised in 1975 for safety reasons in the US and the rest of the world followed suit.
Apparently riders were coasting fast in neutral up to lights then when the lights changed they would shift up to 1st and lock the back wheel or damage the engine which also locked the back wheel, this in turn caused a large number of accidents.
I think the up for higher gear and down for lower gear seems more logical, slow down change down, speed up change up :)
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Unfazed --- thats the best explanation yet. I can the the issue about coasting and light change whilst still moving and selecting 1st, whereas now we could still do the same but we can select 2nd instead. On the other hand I have on an occasion accidentally selected neutral when going from 1st to 2nd
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As have I, but definitely better than going from a fast neutral coasting to 1st :lol
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Kawasaki's H2 triples were 1 up, 4 down. Horrible gearboxes, but no idea if that had anything to do with it. I didn't really notice any problems I'd associate with the gear pattern for sure.
No they weren't, 5 up with neutral at the bottom. Its very embarassing when you change down for a corner and you gone into neutral :)
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If you want to reverse your gear pattern just turn round the connecting rod. less than 2 min job.
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If you want to reverse your gear pattern just turn round the connecting rod. less than 2 min job.
If I put my right boot on my left foot would that work
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Kawasaki's H2 triples were 1 up, 4 down.
My H2 wasn't.
Really? Most peculiar. I had two, an H2C and a US import H2B, and both were 1 up, 4 down.
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If you want to reverse your gear pattern just turn round the connecting rod. less than 2 min job.
If I put my right boot on my left foot would that work
Yes
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If you want to reverse your gear pattern just turn round the connecting rod. less than 2 min job.
If I put my right boot on my left foot would that work
In your case definitely :lol :lol :lol