Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Grahamm on 03 March 2021, 12:24:49 am
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Here's a very interesting video countering the objections that some people have to electric vehicles because of the pollution from generating electricity.
(NB Feel free to discuss this, but *politely*... :) )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-LnUYEXuM&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk-LnUYEXuM&feature=youtu.be)
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That is a very cleverly done video, simple and effective explanation 👍🏻
But.... not all of us are woke millenials crying about the planet. Not to put to finer point on it but i couldn't give a shite how much crap my vehicles pump out 🤷♂️ when I go to buy a car or motorbike I buy based on desire, price, mod cons, looks etc as I'm sure the vast majority of people from my era and above do.
All of that aside the amount either of them damage the world is not the issue, charging is.
Until they can create an EV that charges in minutes and goes at least 200miles from that charge, they'll never get people to adopt it.
Also there's the actual issue with where to charge it. Fine of you live in a nice semi detached house with a drive way where you can fit a plug. But what about the people that live in terraced houses or places that are so congested that you might have to park 3 streets away from your house?
If they fixed that side of thing I'm sure they would be many more people to start buying them rather than trying (as usual) to lecture and guilt them into it by harping on about saving the planet
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Internal combustion engines are so efficient and reliable these days. When i first passed my test in 70, I was under the bonnet most weekends. Park up at night, there was a heap of rust in its place in the morning. Motors cna go 100,000 + miles easily with no major problems, and emissions are a fraction of what they were. I still to see a battery pack for the biggest polluters on the road, HGVs, or aircraft
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The main and simple immutable fact that the government, big companies and anyone else who is pro EV is forgetting is that the UK energy grid DOES NOT have the capacity to supply the demand let alone the cabling or infrastructure to service the demand.
- The National Grid has for years been running close to or at capacity - that what has resulted in all these brown-outs we have all witness over the last few years.
- A while back a Royal-mail depot wanted to go all electric and its just wasn't possible due to there not being enough capacity on the 2 nearest substations, never mind that the cabling wasn't capable of carrying the capacity required. And because the depot was in a town, upgrading said infrastructure just wasn't financially feasible.
- That and can you see the UK gov somehow magically upgrading the electricity grid and installing all the charge points we would need in 10 years?
Long story short, WTF are the government playing at exactly? other than trying to create a cluster fuck of the worst kind.
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The trouble is it's inevitable. Advances in battery and charging technology will overcome the current issues.
Fortunately, there are no plans to make electric motorcycles compulsory. Mind you, finding a petrol station in the future might be difficult...
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Until they can create an EV that charges in minutes and goes at least 200miles from that charge, they'll never get people to adopt it.
Also there's the actual issue with where to charge it.
Paraphrasing what someone once said "Why should I buy one of these new fangled automobiles and have to worry about finding gasoline for it when I can buy hay for my horse anywhere."
If they fixed that side of thing I'm sure they would be many more people to start buying them rather than trying (as usual) to lecture and guilt them into it by harping on about saving the planet
It's a chicken and egg situation, unless governments start building infrastructure (or offer tax breaks for manufacturers to do it), people won't buy the vehicles...
Of course if people just keep to a selfish "I'm alright, Jack" attitude and not worry about the damage they're causing to the environment and leave the mess for their children (or other people's children) to sort out, things won't improve either.
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Internal combustion engines are so efficient and reliable these days.
Reliable, generally.
Efficient?! Nope! 70% of the energy is wasted in heat and noise and, of course, pushing a piston up and down, having to reverse its direction on every stroke!
At least the Wankel Rotary Engine tried to improve matters, which it did somewhat, but they had their own issues, hence never became mass market.
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the UK energy grid DOES NOT have the capacity[/u][/b] to supply the demand let alone the cabling or infrastructure to service the demand.
Here's what the National Grid has to say about that:
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted (http://6 myths about electric vehicles busted)
Now, whilst you may argue that they have a vested interest in saying that, ask yourself, *where* are the "The National Grid Can't Cope" stories coming from?
Be certain that they're not being pushed by the motor industry or fuel companies who have a vested interest in keeping their income streams going...
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Fortunately, there are no plans to make electric motorcycles compulsory.
Electric vehicles won't be "compulsory" by 2035, but ICE ones won't be sold. There won't be any requirement to change to an EV, although I would expect there to be Scrappage schemes.
As yet, regrettably, electric motorbikes are too expensive and the range is too limited, eg I took a look recently out of interest, and they're about £18k with a max 100 mile range (if ridden efficiently, not "spiritedly" ;) ) but that's going to be improved as the technology develops and I wouldn't have any object to getting one then.
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My understanding is that ICE engines will still be around and be being sold. In commercial vehicles and vans and in cars/motorbikes. The only thing for cars/bikes is the ICE wont be the main/sole power source. It will just be a generator to top up the batteries that will drive the wheels.
On the plus side, give it 20 years and my manual bike/van will be safe from thieves as the younger scrotes then will not have a clue about how to start a pure ICE vehicle let alone drive something with a clutch :)
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- [url]https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted[/url] ([url]http://6[/url] myths about electric vehicles busted)
- Now, whilst you may argue that they have a vested interest in saying that, ask yourself, *where* are the "The National Grid Can't Cope" stories coming from?
- I wasn't able to immediately see a current capacity and current usage figure, the article seem to present a lot of irrelevant fluff about how good electric cars are and how people use them. Since when did the NG group become electric car experts, I thought their job was electricity transmission. The only figure I saw about capacity was from 2002, so 18 years ago.
- How do they/we explane the constant and regular brownouts? I would suggested its logical to assume its because the grid in that area/s has reached capacity?
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Since when did the NG group become electric car experts, I thought their job was electricity transmission.
Well, yes, but if they're going to transmit power, they have to know what is coming in and what is going out!
Here's a live (no pun intended) status report: https://grid.iamkate.com/
How do they/we explane the constant and regular brownouts?
I've been doing some searching, and I can't find anything about these.
Please can you provide some details of these brownouts?
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time and will also have the ability to charge extra at any given hour or minute to discourage use at peak times. Smart meters are evil snooping devices that collect your data. All of the above is the reason they are being pushed down peoples throats with advertising, letters and phone calls with their "Help you save electricity" BS.
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Grid capacity has to be a serious concern. I live 5 miles as the crow flies from one of the old inefficient coal fired giants (due to be de-commissioned in 2025). Its operational status is "standby". Over the last 3 years or so, i have noticed that whenever we have a chilly snap (i wont say cold since I have experienced "cold"), they have to fire it up. The recent chilly snap, it has been on every day, temperature above freezing. The weak winds and chilly snap indicate to this humble citizen that the privatised generators and suppliers have simply not invested in capacity, preferring instead to salt us and boost profits. If greater capacity is to be created it will involve huge amounts of public money
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?
Smart meters are evil snooping devices that collect your data.
Yes, I'm aware of that, which is why I've not got one, however that isn't the subject under discussion.
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?
The technology can do it - I am not aware it has been used yet but the capability is there should the need arise.
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?
The technology can do it - I am not aware it has been used yet but the capability is there should the need arise.
Yep so far as I can tell it has not yet been used but as said the capability is built into the meters. And if it were to be used before everyone has one fitted then no one would want one fitted.
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
They can do that already. It's called Powergen digging up the road :)
As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.
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As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7.
That is fixed 7 hours at night on your tariff. I am talking instant and variable hiking the price up at any time. Sharp Hall used to be on economy 7 but you pay a far higher standing charge than a normal 24 hour rate. Was alright for a while but didnt pay off in the end as they krept the standing charge up.
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As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.
In France they have a system that will be bought in over here at some point relating to the Red White and Blue days. On certain days through the year you are charged a higher rate (red days) or a lower rate (blue days) than your normal rates. They also have an equivalent of Economy 7 for overnight cheap rate too. With their equivalent of the smart meter (The Linky meter) it enables them to bill you for exactly what you have used during the cheap rate (or Read/White/Blue days).
Red/White/Blue is used to enchorage you to use less when they know demand will be high. For example, on days they expect high demand from industry meaning less power is available on the grid for consumers or when consumer demand will be higher. They also have the red days on different days of the year in different areas depending on demand.
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As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.
In France they have a system that will be bought in over here at some point relating to the Red White and Blue days. On certain days through the year you are charged a higher rate (red days) or a lower rate (blue days) than your normal rates. They also have an equivalent of Economy 7 for overnight cheap rate too. With their equivalent of the smart meter (The Linky meter) it enables them to bill you for exactly what you have used during the cheap rate (or Read/White/Blue days).
Red/White/Blue is used to enchorage you to use less when they know demand will be high. For example, on days they expect high demand from industry meaning less power is available on the grid for consumers or when consumer demand will be higher. They also have the red days on different days of the year in different areas depending on demand.
Well that cleared it up :rollin
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As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7.
That is fixed 7 hours at night on your tariff. I am talking instant and variable hiking the price up at any time. Sharp Hall used to be on economy 7 but you pay a far higher standing charge than a normal 24 hour rate. Was alright for a while but didnt pay off in the end as they krept the standing charge up.
Agreed. We took my mother in law off E7 for the same reason. Heads you win, tails you lose.
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
They can do that already. It's called Powergen digging up the road :)
As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.
Wind? 24/7? What planet are you on? Our local coal fired has to fire up when the wind drops, and has done regularly this year
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We're always going to nedd alternatives to wind/sun. Another winter like 63 would result in huge blackouts. Another summer like 76 huge water shortages. Private companies will not build in any over capacity for such events
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
They can do that already. It's called Powergen digging up the road :)
As to smart meters allowing them to vary prices during peaks, again we've had that for years. It's called Economy 7. And it makes sense. Most electricity generation is 24/7 such as wind, hydro and nuclear. So when demand drops, daytime industry stops using it, we turn off our electric kettles and TVs, it makes sense to encourage off peak usage by lowering prices.
Wind? 24/7? What planet are you on? Our local coal fired has to fire up when the wind drops, and has done regularly this year
This was all over the news last June
The total coal-free period lasted 67 days, 22 hours and 55 minutes, and ended on Tuesday night when the Drax power station in north Yorkshire brought one of its coal units online for maintenance, during which time it added some power to the national grid.
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Wind? 24/7? What planet are you on? Our local coal fired has to fire up when the wind drops, and has done regularly this year
It's always windy somewhere, and of it's not it's probably sunny or raining. Nuclear is 24/7, and you daren't turn it off :look
My son is on Economy 7. He uses electricity for heating and it works for him if you shop around for the right deal. It's a no brainer if you are charging an electric vehicle overnight (back on subject).
Anyway, the point being made is that Smart meters varying price is just a more sophisticated version of Economy 7. The principle of variable charging isn't new.
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Brown outs or black outs are part of the reason for rolling out smart meters because with them they can cut power to single streets at a time
Do you actually have any citatations of examples of this having happened?
The technology can do it - I am not aware it has been used yet but the capability is there should the need arise.
Neither am I, but the implication seems that it has or that there have already been "brownouts" or "blackouts" due to lack of capacity, which, absent any evidence to the contrary, does not appear to be the case.
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Off topic and potentially offensive post removed.
GrahamM
Moderator.
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It'll never happen
Fukwits can't even get a grip on this so called new HST train line, billions spent & achieving nowt.
Same applies to the claim to faze out Internal combustion engines.
Infrastructure is decades away to support it for starters, power stations are decades away at supplying the demand.
Hybrids self charging vehicles are the only way forward for the next few decades, till the above gets sorted it's never happening as they claim, basically all bollox.
I also see they don't tell Joe public how much pollutants are created to build just 1 electric vehicle, it's way more than the pollution created by running 1 modern vehicle for 10yrs.
We've all got an opinion.
[size=78%]I work for Honda, who are one of the leaders in Hybrid / self charging technology & privy to the facts stated above ... [/size] :thumbup
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I do agree switchable hybrid should be the way to go until all electric is solved. Perhaps with a rule that you must switch to electric in designated areas.
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I also see they don't tell Joe public how much pollutants are created to build just 1 electric vehicle, it's way more than the pollution created by running 1 modern vehicle for 10yrs.
I'll guess that you didn't watch the video in the OP...
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- Here's a live (no pun intended) status report: https://grid.iamkate.com/ (https://grid.iamkate.com/)
- Please can you provide some details of these brownouts?
- I have emailed the data source requesting current NG capacity, as the data only shows whats been generated.
- I will have to email my local supplier for this info.
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I have just come across a new tactic to get people to have an evil smart meter. I have about 6 letters asking me to make an appointment but have now received a letter saying that an appointment has been booked and some one will be coming on x date between 12. 00 and 16.00. But it does say call to confirm it or book a different date or time.
Definitely a new tactic.
If they step foot in Sharp Halls grounds I will give them a 3 minute head start to reach the gate house at the end of Sharp Halls 2 mile drive before I release the hounds :lol
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I have just come across a new tactic to get people to have an evil smart meter.
Why are smart meters evil?
I had a complex meter arrangement which I wanted rid of so I had to change to a smart meter and as I have a dual fuel suppler I got both gas and elecetric smart meters.
Seems to make sense to me, now I don't have any problems supplying meter readings which were always a pain with the complex (day and night) meter I had previously.
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see my post number 13.
A little more on the data collection. By analysing the power used and when its used it can be worked out if you work, what time you get up, leave the house, when you get back, how many live in the house,how many females, the age of people in the house, your cooking habits. All valuable data to be sold to advertisers
And you don't "Have" to have one when changing provider. Telling people they do is more sneaky decitful behaviour to get people to have them, more reason not to have one.
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Heres another thing. I don't know what morons they are using to install the gas ones. I don't think that they are normal gas engineers but just people trained up to fit them.
A Part of the gas one being fitted is that they check, perhaps just visually ‐ other gas equipment in your property.
A mate of mine had a gas one and the chap that fitted it "checked" the gas cooker and condemned it on the basis that it did not have an anti tip bracket fitted to the bottom of the cooker. It had the required chain fitted to the top perfectly correctly. They then had to pay for their regular gas engineer to come out to check and undo the condem.
These people fitting them are idiots.
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Heres another thing. I don't know what morons they are using to install the gas ones. I don't think that they are normal gas engineers but just people trained up to fit them.
A Part of the gas one being fitted is that they check, perhaps just visually ‐ other gas equipment in your property.
A mate of mine had a gas one and the chap that fitted it "checked" the gas cooker and condemned it on the basis that it did not have an anti tip bracket fitted to the bottom of the cooker. It had the required chain fitted to the top perfectly correctly. They then had to pay for their regular gas engineer to come out to check and undo the condem.
These people fitting them are idiots.
Quite likely. When we moved into our present abode, we had a new electricity meter installed. The chap that fitted it was an old work mate, he was previously a fitters mate at the old iron and steel works. Turns out he re-trained soley to go around fitting meters. When he turned up at our door, I thought it was social visit. Then he told me he had come to fit the meter, I had flashbacks to him swinging a 14lb hammer knocking 2" whitworth bolts in :lol
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These people fitting them are idiots.
A lot of the smaller suppliers use Lowri Beck to carry out contractor work.
From personal experience, I'd advise against letting them anywhere near your electricity supply.
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Electric mini-digger review. 54 seconds. Funny :lol .
What the *hell* is the point of using an electrical digger on a site that doesn't have a connection to the mains??
They might as well complain that it ran out of petrol because there wasn't a filling station nearby...
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100% cloud cover all day here, and no breeze at all, so the local old coal fired has been running since I got up this morning
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I would love to know how a Smart Meter can tell the sex of people living in my home or their age :rollin
What if my lodger is non binary and identifies as a shrubbery?
My Smart Meter is in danger of offending my lodger's foilage status :rollin
Seriously I've never read such rubbish, of course Smart Meters tell the supplier how much you're using and when, that's a good thing as it enables them to predict demand, nothing else, I'm certain that the good people at EDF couldn't give a toss about how many drunken women wake up in my bed on a Sunday morning :rollin
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I would love to know how a Smart Meter can tell the sex of people living in my home or their age :rollin
From how much electricity you are using and at what times of day, so the sex by monitoring power serge from a hair dryer for example. Age by what time they get up and start using equipment and from the power being used can work out what equipment is being used = age.Also age by seeing the power consumption increase when the kids come home from school. If you even have kids by not seeing that surge at that time but seeing it when you come home instead.
Also if you are a single parent. All from diagnosis of how much power is being used for how long and at what time.
All of this data is valuable information that can be sold to advertisers to target you. Or a telemarketing company will know the best times to call your house.
Other info such as exactly when you leave and return home - very useful to thieves.
If you still think its a load of rubbish and are happy for a surveillance device to be installed in your home then that's up to you.
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Other info such as exactly when you leave and return home - very useful to thieves.
Just as well I leave everything turned on all the time and have a few big dogs then.
Seriously though, I agree with what you are saying. The data analysis will be based on typical patterns though as you could not say for certain (for example) that a household has children because the power usage goes up at 4pm. It could be a teacher that lives there or someone who does short days.
Same goes for the hairdryers, some men use them allegedly etc etc etc
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Other info such as exactly when you leave and return home - very useful to thieves.
Just as well I leave everything turned on all the time and have a few big dogs then.
Seriously though, I agree with what you are saying. The data analysis will be based on typical patterns though as you could not say for certain (for example) that a household has children because the power usage goes up at 4pm. It could be a teacher that lives there or someone who does short days.
Same goes for the hairdryers, some men use them allegedly etc etc etc
Yes to all of that there will be cases but will be the minority and I am sure that a teacher will have something to say to you about your comment that they get home at 4 :lol
Just as well I leave everything turned on all the time and have a few big dogs then.
Wont work because that everything is on and is still a baseline to work off unless the dogs are brewing cuppas and using the jacuzzi when you are not home. Either way they will know when you get home and start drying your hair with one ov vidals finest. :lol
Companies behind the roll out hide behind phrases such as "allowing access to data on a more granular level". = meaning deeper spying.
An appliance will have its own power load signature that can identify what it is and by doing that it can be seen when it is being used and from that it can be worked out who is using it.
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I would love to know how a Smart Meter can tell the sex of people living in my home or their age :rollin
From how much electricity you are using and at what times of day, so the sex by monitoring power serge from a hair dryer for example. Age by what time they get up and start using equipment and from the power being used can work out what equipment is being used = age.Also age by seeing the power consumption increase when the kids come home from school. If you even have kids by not seeing that surge at that time but seeing it when you come home instead.
Also if you are a single parent. All from diagnosis of how much power is being used for how long and at what time.
All of this data is valuable information that can be sold to advertisers to target you. Or a telemarketing company will know the best times to call your house.
Other info such as exactly when you leave and return home - very useful to thieves.
If you still think its a load of rubbish and are happy for a surveillance device to be installed in your home then that's up to you.
Commonly used word these days, algorithms. Used to analyse all sorts of stuff you'd think unanalysable. I remember reading a book in the 80s, authors name was Skinner but cant remember the title, in which all these stuff was predicted, surveillance/marketing etc
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https://www.visordown.com/news/general/survey-says-31-motorcyclists-would-stop-riding-if-electric-replaces-petrol (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/survey-says-31-motorcyclists-would-stop-riding-if-electric-replaces-petrol)
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https://www.visordown.com/news/general/survey-says-31-motorcyclists-would-stop-riding-if-electric-replaces-petrol (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/survey-says-31-motorcyclists-would-stop-riding-if-electric-replaces-petrol)
I would still ride but I would be in the "56% would look to keep their petrol-powered machine on the road for as long as they could." camp.
I think that petrol will end up being very expensive and the availability few and far between.
My bike spends most of its time plugged into the battery optimiser anyway.
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https://www.visordown.com/news/general/survey-says-31-motorcyclists-would-stop-riding-if-electric-replaces-petrol (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/survey-says-31-motorcyclists-would-stop-riding-if-electric-replaces-petrol)
It's a pity they don't post a link to the results, I'd be interested to see the breakdown in age groups between the die-had petrolheads and those who would switch to electric.
Personally, whilst I would agree with the "delay" group, if it came down to it and electric bikes could a) have a longer range b) be quicker to charge and c) be a hell of a lot cheaper, I would switch.
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I can't understand why they haven't started to make hybrid bikes yet. Something like a 300/400cc engine with an electric motor that puts out similar power to a 1000cc bike. I think it would help coax people over to electric vehicles as it is trying to do with cars 🤔
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I can't understand why they haven't started to make hybrid bikes yet.
An interesting idea, and one I'd not thought about.
However, a little google suggests they might be a non-starter at the moment:
https://www.cycleworld.com/where-are-hybrid-motorcycles/ (https://www.cycleworld.com/where-are-hybrid-motorcycles/)
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Ok, I'm resurrecting an old thread, but this is interesting:
Electric car supply chain carbon emissions lower than ICE vehicles, study finds (https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2021/12/electric-car-supply-chain-carbon-emissions-lower-than-ice-vehicles-study-finds/)
The research team combined concepts from energy economics and industrial ecology – carbon pricing, life cycle assessment, and modelling energy systems – to find if carbon emissions were still reduced when indirect emissions from the electric vehicle supply chain were factored in.
“A major concern about electric vehicles is that the supply chain, including the mining and processing of raw materials and the manufacturing of batteries, is far from clean,” said Professor Ken Gillingham.
“So, if we priced the carbon embodied in these processes, the expectation is electric vehicles would be exorbitantly expensive. It turns out that’s not the case; if you level the playing field by also pricing the carbon in the fossil fuel vehicle supply chain, electric vehicle sales would actually increase.”
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The day I get an electric bike is the day I die 🪦