Front brake pads replaced + advice needed

[wickedmonkey]

Hi guys,

MOT happened a couple of days ago. The bike passed but I had a warning about the front brake pads being very low. I replaced them today mostly without a hitch (pics of old ones attached). Because of the extra friction material on the new pads (SBS sintered), it looked like there was now too much brake fluid in the system as the brake lever barely moved before stiffening up. So, I syphoned off some fluid from the master cylinder (homemade syphon pic attached) but the lever is still stiffening too soon. The front wheel turns easily but not freely so the pads must be touching at rest. The master cylinder fluid level is just above the low mark now and the lever indicator is on '1'.

What am I missing here? This is the first time I've done the brake pads so it's quite likely I'm being a doughnut.

Finally, as you can see in the picture, one of the old pads has worn unevenly. I'm presuming this is because the callipers need cleaning. How easy is this? Can anyone point me to an idiot's guide?

David.

[red98]

Hi david........the pads will rub, its the rotation/vibration of the wheel when riding that eases them away from the disc...
my guess is that youve got used to the old pads not noticing how bad they had got as is a gradual process.....get out on your fazer and try it for a few miles, take it easy at first untill the pads have bedded in....

Like your home made syphon   

[darrsi]

Looks to me like you've gone from having no brake pads, to actually having some shiny new ones that actually work. 

They will rub on the disc for a little while until they're bedded in, so that's normal behaviour.
As for the level of brake fluid, now is the time to make it right while the pads are new and the pistons are in at their furthest.

Don't forget you can adjust the little wheel on the lever for personal comfort when braking as well.

[wickedmonkey]

Thanks guys. I'll take it out for a gentle ride and see how it feels. Maybe I'll take a backpack with a few tools and DOT4 fluid with me just in case.

Regarding the little wheel adjuster on the brake lever: I presume '1' is the most relaxed setting?

[fazersharp]

Thanks guys. I'll take it out for a gentle ride and see how it feels. Maybe I'll take a backpack with a few tools and DOT4 fluid with me just in case.

Regarding the little wheel adjuster on the brake lever: I presume '1' is the most relaxed setting?

Yes you are just seeing the old/new difference. Top up now.
The wheel is only for moving the position of the leaver so if you have short stubby little fingers and an not reach it you can put it on number 1 - or is it 4 cant remember which or how many it gos to.

[Bretty]

Did you clean and inspect the pistons?

If you're fitting new pads, as they are thicker the pistons will now be pushed into the caliper a bit more than before, so your seals will be running on part of the piston that was previously exposed to the elements.
If it's scratch, corroded or dirty it will not move as smoothly on the seals. Typically, driving the piston back out a bit and going at them with an old tooth brush and brake cleaner will sort it out followed by a smear of red rubber grease.

....Else just run it as it is and the exercise and thermal cycling may free it up. :-)

Just be aware the danger is, if it binds and drags too much, two things: Heat will build in the disc and it'll probably warp it, as well as wear. OR heat builds up in the caliper, the brake fluid turns to steam and pushing the pad even more against the disc and when you do pull the lever it'll come all the way back to the bars with no effect.

Just make sure the discs arent getting stupidly hot during normal riding.

[unfazed]

5 is as you say te most relaxed.. If it is set to 1 it is probably to severe for you, now that you have brakes again 

[wickedmonkey]

Been out for a short ride and the front brake now feels amazing!

No, I didn't clean the calliper - just knocked off some dirt. Cleaning the calliper and lubing the cylinders makes sense. Is it easy to do? Do you happen to have a link to an idiot's guide handy?

[wickedmonkey]

Silly question: how do I change the setting? It doesn't seem to turn for me.

[Bretty]

This is a good video (although what he calls salt build up is actually aluminium oxide formed when aluminium 'rusts')
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FNz00OTRLzM

Keep a spanner across the caliper when actuating the levers to avoid pumping the pistons out too far. Everytime I manage to pop one of the pistons out. It p***es brake fluid everywhere, can be tricky to get back in and will need you to rebleed them.

...oh yeah.. and now you have your reservoir with less fluid in, just be careful when you pump the pistons back out, the reservoir doesn't run dry and you pump air into the lines!

[darrsi]

5 is as you say te most relaxed.. If it is set to 1 it is probably to severe for you, now that you have brakes again 

Hold on a minute, you've got FIVE?

[red98]

Silly question: how do I change the setting? It doesn't seem to turn for me.

push the lever away from the bars a tad...takes the pressure off and you can turn it easy   


cheers fazersharp   

[fazersharp]

5 is as you say te most relaxed.. If it is set to 1 it is probably to severe for you, now that you have brakes again 

Hold on a minute, you've got FIVE?

Thats right it only gos to 4 - mine is set at 3.
It has no baring in the brake performance - only the reach.
And pulling it in will make it harder to turn the dial, you need to push it away from you, you will then see that there is a post that gos into it and the dial I think has different length holes to take the post so you have to push the leaver away from you to be able to turn the dial. (I think thats how it works unless the dial is on a cam)   

[wickedmonkey]

Great video, bretty. I'll clean them as soon as.

[unfazed]

Boxeye have 4 positions Foxeyes have 5 and are interchangeable.

[celticdog]

Ooh I love a good brake forum! This is a good guide by Ren Withnell on cleaning brake pistons-


http://www.bikesandtravels.com/biker.aspx?ride=156


I've went down the short stubby Chinese levers route as my meat hooks are on the small side

[darrsi]

Boxeye have 4 positions Foxeyes have 5 and are interchangeable.

Really?
The fifth setting must be for even stubbier fingers then, 'cos you can't go any further away with the lever?

[misterjayb1]

Boxeye have 4 positions Foxeyes have 5 and are interchangeable.

Hey ya learn somethin every day.. Had a couple of each n never noticed 

[fazersharp]

-

[wickedmonkey]

Ha! Nice pic

I still can't turn the setting from 1. Won't budge at all.

[darrsi]

Ha! Nice pic

I still can't turn the setting from 1. Won't budge at all.

It should feel very loose to turn once you push the lever away from you.
If it's knackered just order a new lever, they're not expensive.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-FZS-600-Fazer-1999-Replacement-Motorcycle-Front-Brake-Lever-/130757526054?hash=item1e71c18226:m:mekIvrRBQLW9kzqLruQH5fg

[wickedmonkey]

I want to really thank everyone who gave me advice on this thread. It has been much appreciated.

Update, if you're interested. I gave the front callipers new pads and a fairly good clean as much as possible without actually removing the pistons. I smeared red rubber grease around the pistons and some copper slip on the back of the pads and a little on the pins as well. The front pads are not binding anywhere near as much as when I first changed the pads without cleaning the pistons (ie, they do contact the disc but it's easier to spin the wheel around now). I have now done about 100 miles on the new pads and all feels good.

Buoyed up by this relative success, I have just cleaned the rear calliper and changed the pads as well. The rear calliper was filthy and the pistons need replacing or a damn good clean I think due to corrosion (seems like a bad design to have the calliper upside down so it collects water and debris). However, they do feel a lot better now. There is a little drag on the disc like the front but it doesn't seem too bad.

I do have another problem relating to the front brake switch but I'm going to start another thread about that little chestnut.

Thanks again guys

[darrsi]

I want to really thank everyone who gave me advice on this thread. It has been much appreciated.

Update, if you're interested. I gave the front callipers new pads and a fairly good clean as much as possible without actually removing the pistons. I smeared red rubber grease around the pistons and some copper slip on the back of the pads and a little on the pins as well. The front pads are not binding anywhere near as much as when I first changed the pads without cleaning the pistons (ie, they do contact the disc but it's easier to spin the wheel around now). I have now done about 100 miles on the new pads and all feels good.

Buoyed up by this relative success, I have just cleaned the rear calliper and changed the pads as well. The rear calliper was filthy and the pistons need replacing or a damn good clean I think due to corrosion (seems like a bad design to have the calliper upside down so it collects water and debris). However, they do feel a lot better now. There is a little drag on the disc like the front but it doesn't seem too bad.

I do have another problem relating to the front brake switch but I'm going to start another thread about that little chestnut.

Thanks again guys

You'll get a little bit of drag for short period of time simply because you've displaced the pads, but once ridden for a while they should all feel good.
Pick a nice sunny day twice a year when you have a day off and make a habit of giving them a good clean and the results will always be really worthwhile.
I did a rush job on a carb balance last night after work, with a threat of sudden lack of daylight and a neighbour that works a night shift, but more importantly i got them balanced very level after a good 20 minutes of a running a noisy engine, and i can't wait to try out my handy work in an hour. 

[BBROWN1664]

Ha! Nice pic

I still can't turn the setting from 1. Won't budge at all.

Are you pushing the lever away from the bar before trying to turn the dial? If not, it wont turn as the pin will be in the detent.

[wickedmonkey]

Ha! Nice pic

I still can't turn the setting from 1. Won't budge at all.

Are you pushing the lever away from the bar before trying to turn the dial? If not, it wont turn as the pin will be in the detent.

Yes, I am. Won't budge. Maybe it's seised. Not too bothered at the moment. Would be nice to adjust it though.