A fun ride...

[pitternator]

Grahamm/ABM
The whole ethos of the IAM ( and Roadcraft ) is that riding becomes a system based approach. It makes you analyse and plan all the time. I think its a great concept, and does work. What it does not do is teach machine control skills.This is IMO the " missing link" with simple IAM training. It creates in you the notion you are skilled, but in fact you may not be...especially if you start to push the envelope.IAM and Rospa all preach riding within the speed limit. The system does work at higher speed, but you dont get trained for it...hence even though one may pass the IAM, it is not  a passport to being a fast rider.It means you have shown the ability to ride safely at speeds up to the limit.Its like passing your basic test without ever having driven on motorways!
Its why I push people to try trackdays, so you can push your own envelope in a higher degree of safety than on the road, learning about your bike and your own control skills. It dont change the system approach on the road though ...TBH once you start riding at high speed, its essential.
My other great concern, as already stated, is whether a new IAM passee can judge limits at high speed, and adopt restraint at the correct point ...since they have no experience of riding real roads at such speed. Developing this ability is down to ones own empirical approach and learning method. Yet the level of self confidance is that high ...it can blind you to your own needs.
There always is someone faster out there...its no shame to back off and go at your own pace.After all, you dont know whether that faster rider is skilled or is indeed outside their envelope and is moments from binning it.
 
On a completely lighter note.... was watching Top Gear in India last night ..and in the UK we may  enjoy at least some degree of smugness over our road safety record....since in a single year over in curryland 196000 people are killed on the road !!   FFS ! ...makes awesome viewing seeing their roads...absolute bedlam! 

[Phil TK]

   FFS ! ...makes awesome viewing seeing their roads...absolute bedlam! 

Ahh, it reminded me of my ride through Vietnam, the main coast road that runs north/south is the same sort of mayhem day and night. One thing that is hard to get used to on these sort of roads is that oncoming traffic has priority over motorcycles when overtaking. Imagine, you successfully overtake a slow moving lorry and the lane ahead is clear for half a mile then suddenly it fills up with a long line of lorrys/buses coming straight at you at 60mph, all you can do is move right over to the kerb where you have a couple of feet of space as they thunder past. Now imagine that all day, every time your lane is empty ahead, then imagine pouring monsoon rain, visibilty 40m and dchickens/cows/dogs/rats running around the road. And finally, imagine no choice but dog liver curry for dinner at the end of the day (not kidding)
Intereastingly, a  system based riding technique doesn't work in asia, each and every second needs an instinct based decision. If you ride over there for a period of time, you can ride anywhere.

[Grahamm]

The whole ethos of the IAM ( and Roadcraft ) is that riding becomes a system based approach. It makes you analyse and plan all the time. I think its a great concept, and does work. What it does not do is teach machine control skills.

Yes, I agree with this, which was why I was glad when my Observer sent me a copy of Full Control which was something I'd been looking for since I started riding, ie a comprehensive and useful guide to how to actually *ride* the bike.

This is IMO the " missing link" with simple IAM training. It creates in you the notion you are skilled, but in fact you may not be...especially if you start to push the envelope.IAM and Rospa all preach riding within the speed limit.

As mentioned somewhere above, that is "preached" with a nod and a wink with comments like "when you're overtaking, you want to be looking at the road ahead, not down at the speedo", ie they can't *tell* you to exceed the limit, but if you want "make progress", provided you don't do it in an unsafe or inappropriate manner, you won't get told off for it.

Its like passing your basic test without ever having driven on motorways!

Which, of course, everyone does!

My other great concern, as already stated, is whether a new IAM passee can judge limits at high speed, and adopt restraint at the correct point ...since they have no experience of riding real roads at such speed. Developing this ability is down to ones own empirical approach and learning method. Yet the level of self confidance is that high ...it can blind you to your own needs.

Well "appropriate restraint" is one of the things that you're Observed on even before you take the test, plus you get to follow the Observer down various types of roads and watch how he rides them (just remember to ride your own ride otherwise you might end up in an embarrassing situation  )

There always is someone faster out there...its no shame to back off and go at your own pace.After all, you dont know whether that faster rider is skilled or is indeed outside their envelope and is moments from binning it.

Sure, I don't disagree at all. On a ride out with the SAM group once, heading south on the A339 from Basingstoke, some Power Rangers came up behind us and proceeded to do stupid overtakes on blind bends, across double white lines etc. The consensus as we sat and chatted at the next break was "what a bunch of twunts!"

Nobody felt any inclination to try to emulate them.

[Phil TK]

The consensus as we sat and chatted at the next break was "what a bunch of twunts!"

Nobody felt any inclination to try to emulate them.

What is this? So you need to be an IAM observer to know what bad riding looks like? Do you presume the rest of us don't know?  It seems so, how patronizing can you IAM bigots get? And of course,the rest of the motorcycling fraternaty is not allowed to critisize the IAM are we?
   Pease, please, please get it into your head Graham, nobody has an issue with advanced training, but a very large number of bikers old and new have issues with the IAM  attitude to other bikers. What benefit is this to biking in general? -Answer -little.
 And yes, it really is so bad that disbanding the whole organisation is a sensible option.
 Start afresh.

[Grahamm]

Yadda, yadda, yadda

 

Fine, you don't like the IAM. I get that. I got that a long while ago in this thread, but you can't stop riding that hobby horse it seems and have to keep on telling people that you don't like the IAM just to make sure everyone knows it.

If you don't want to get IAM training, that's your choice, but if you "don't have a  problem with advanced training" why do you persist in trying to put off anyone else who may be considering it with the IAM because of some perceived attitude from many years ago?

a very large number of bikers old and new have issues with the IAM  attitude to other bikers.

Why do "new" bikers have "issues with the IAM attitude to other bikers"? Is it that they have actually experienced that "attitude" or is it just they've heard it on forums and in bike cafes from bikers who have big chips on their shoulders?

Is IAM training *so* bad that it is actually better for someone to get *no* advanced training rather than go with them? If so, you might have a point, but it isn't, so you don't.