Date: 27-11-20  Time: 14:28 PM

Author Topic: charging problem  (Read 2749 times)

phil on a fazer

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charging problem
« on: 17 March 2013, 07:13:55 PM »
Hi

started my Gen 1 this morn & popped a multi metre across the battery while i was waiting for her to warm up. the reading was 11.9v for a second, then to 12v (the Fan was on). i then left it a minute or so and tried it again.....11.9v for the first second then sat at 12v.

i then acidentally knocked it in to gear so it stalled due to the side stand being down. So started her up again and put my metre across and it was 12.3v......waited a minute or so again.......tried again and it was 12v  :(

even with the fan on, lights on (as there automatic) that is too low. Any advice on next course of action?

nickodemon

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #1 on: 17 March 2013, 09:46:34 PM »
Do you have starting problems? Does the battery go flat? If bike is starting and running fine the meter may be faulty or have low batteries. Normally a bike should be around 13v at tickover and when revved to around 5000 rpm will go up to approx 14v.
If it's broken, it's not fixed.

DekF

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #2 on: 17 March 2013, 10:11:28 PM »
You have omitted a critical parameter. RPM..
 

tomlinscote

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #3 on: 18 March 2013, 01:05:55 PM »
Measure the voltage with a bit of throttle on, at least say 3000rpm then it should read into the 14V region and then all is well, if the voltage does not go up then you may need to find the alternator and check across it, if all well there then its  a wire/connection prob if not mmmm!!
 

phil on a fazer

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #4 on: 18 March 2013, 07:39:31 PM »
ok thanks guys.

the readings i took were on idle. i dont think it is the volt meter, i use it on my other bike and seems fine.

I kind of do have starting problems  :o i only ride the bike once every 10 - 20 days, but the battery is always charged (optimate) before i go out. i hit the start and she turns over well but wont catch for a while, the longer you leave it the worse. So if i dont ride for 10 days it might take a few hits of the starter, if i dont ride for 20 days it will take a few more hits of the starter.

ive put this down to stale fuel in the float bowls, possibly making the carbs a little gummy?? bought some Redex the other day, to be fair i reckon the carbs need a full strip down and clean (thats a job ive never done it before though  :o )

As stated above i thought on tick over it should be around 13v. i will try reving to 3K and 5k and see what happens.........watch this space.

thanks

tomlinscote

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #5 on: 18 March 2013, 08:26:34 PM »
with regards to leaving the bike.....
In August 2008 I had to leave my 2004 gen 1 in  a cellar for 6 months unattended, as it has a datatool 3 fitted from new when I went back to the bike (Feb 2009) the battery was totally flat. After an hour or so on charge the bike fired up and I rode it 80 miles left it outside over night and the next frosty morning it fired up no worries. The battery finally died this feb after nearly 9 years service and I reckon it was only the rubbish weather during dec, jan and feb that meant I couldn't give the bike any decent runs that did for it. So I never had any probs with gummy fuel, and apart from the time in feb 2009 have never charged the bike battery. I hope yours doesn't have any serious probs just before the (hopefully) start of the decent weather!!

AdieR

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #6 on: 19 March 2013, 02:50:04 AM »
My advice is simply use the bike a little more regularly if it's possible. Optimates are fine, but many people look upon them as some kind of God for batteries, and that a battery on an Optimate will last indefinitely - it won't.

I would use the bike a bit more (preferably a good, fast long-ish run as well) before delving into the charging system (if it ain't broke etc). You say about starting problems; hitting that little button in the morning puts quite a considerable load on a battery (more than many people realise), combined with the natural self-drain of the battery over the 10-20 days that it stands and your battery will be working hard. That hard working battery will take about 10 miles to recover just from the starter button. A good battery should be 12.6 - 12.8V.

The other possibility (rather than stale fuel, which I would say is unlikely) is that as the bike is standing for long periods, corrosion on connections (esp perhaps earth points) is not that unlikely either (the bike won't dry out if it's stood, and damp will linger).

taksi

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #7 on: 24 March 2013, 12:27:37 PM »
Could be a fuzzy connector block to the Regulator/rectifier??
 
 
Taksi
 
 
 
Taksi

MightyClown

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #8 on: 24 March 2013, 01:37:30 PM »
Phil,


I had a similar issue and wrote up the result here:


http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,4820.msg41194.html#msg41194


As others have said make a range of measurements at different revs,  also remember that battery voltages are affected by the cold weather so you will see lower voltages in the winter.   The workshop manual voltages are for 20 degrees ambient temperature.


Our bikes are getting old now.


If the thought of adding wires is a little off putting,  then it would be well worth while to clean up the wiring connector blocks.


If you measure the voltage at the Regulator / Rectifier and you are getting a nice 13 - 14V then you know there is a drop due to the wiring.


Hope this helps !


( BTW:  I've not had a single battery issue since i made the mod, and i use the bike all year round (with heated grips and waistcoat in the winter) and i do quite short journeys ~5 miles to work, so not a great run to charge up the battery)


« Last Edit: 24 March 2013, 01:49:20 PM by MightyClown »

phil on a fazer

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #9 on: 29 March 2013, 02:50:50 PM »
right then.......

Chareged the battery this morn, took off charger and straight out to bike.

After 5 attempts it started (last ridden about 2 weeks ago). i left it to idle for 6 mins then tested the voltage

Idle - 13.3v
3k revs - 13.8v
5k revs - 13.7

I then rode 2 miles to tesco for fuel (and to add some Redex). From there i rode for about 35 - 40mins on all sorts of roads to get to my local bike shop. pulled up and tested it again at idle - 12.3v. rode home which is about 10 mins of 30 - 70mph roads. tested on idle again.....12.7v

mmmm....??????

DekF

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #10 on: 30 March 2013, 02:19:19 PM »
Your charging voltage is good enough, ideally it would be 14v but over 13.5v is satisfactory.
However, 12.7v at rest is borderline.
Also, battery voltage needs to be measured at the very least 30 minutes after charging otherwise the reading will be inaccurate.
Charge it, leave it an hour then measure the voltage. If less than 12.8v consider buying a new one.

chaparral02

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #11 on: 30 March 2013, 03:44:58 PM »
If less than 12.8v consider buying a new one.
12.8v is  what a brandnew battery should give...
 
Battery range goes
12.9v great to 12.2v poor
 
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volt.htm

« Last Edit: 30 March 2013, 03:59:19 PM by chaparral02 »
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DekF

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #12 on: 30 March 2013, 04:18:46 PM »
I'm not sure someone who thinks a 150hp bike on a 35mph island shouldn't be locked up..  :)  so as to any advice from him  :rolleyes
Just kiddin', still got the fz1?
I said borderline & your chart doesn't differentiate between std & gel.
 

NOTES: Keep in mind that listed voltages are "Resting" Volts.
 

chaparral02

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #13 on: 30 March 2013, 04:38:51 PM »
I'm not sure someone who thinks a 150hp bike on a 35mph island shouldn't be locked up..  :)  so as to any advice from him  :rolleyes
Just kiddin', still got the fz1?

NOTES: Keep in mind that listed voltages are "Resting" Volts.
 
Yes I still have my FZ1,,But I only ride it very rarely these days...It been real shit weather here in the last few years :'(
What happened to the lovely summers we used to have  :wall
 
It Easter and it about 2c outside,what the hell is going on  :crazy

But if they locked all the coppers up I sure I be out on it everyday  ;) ... :rollin
We have almost 200 coppers on are little 7mile long island.which means i come across one of them about every mile ... :(
« Last Edit: 30 March 2013, 04:46:31 PM by chaparral02 »
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phil on a fazer

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #14 on: 30 March 2013, 05:43:36 PM »
right then.......

Chareged the battery this morn, took off charger and straight out to bike.

After 5 attempts it started (last ridden about 2 weeks ago). i left it to idle for 6 mins then tested the voltage

Idle - 13.3v
3k revs - 13.8v
5k revs - 13.7

I then rode 2 miles to tesco for fuel (and to add some Redex). From there i rode for about 35 - 40mins on all sorts of roads to get to my local bike shop. pulled up and tested it again at idle - 12.3v. rode home which is about 10 mins of 30 - 70mph roads. tested on idle again.....12.7v

mmmm....??????

what i dont get is my first measurements were ok, yeah??....13v.3 at idle. but after a 40 minute ride why is it 12.3v at idle, then 10 mins later 12.7v?

Doesnt that say theres an intermittent charging problem? shouldnt it at all times (at idle) be above those measurements?

I really dont think it is the battery as i tested it a while ago, and yes....a rested voltage not straight of the charger. cant actually remember what it was but will do it again.

cheers
« Last Edit: 30 March 2013, 06:03:20 PM by phil on a fazer »

chaparral02

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Re: charging problem
« Reply #15 on: 30 March 2013, 07:02:09 PM »

Quote
what i dont get is my first measurements were ok, yeah??....13v.3 at idle. but
after a 40 minute ride why is it 12.3v at idle, then 10 mins later
12.7v?

Doesnt that say theres an intermittent charging problem? shouldnt
it at all times (at idle) be above those measurements?
Some Bikes alternators have a very low output when the bike is at idle rpm

Example
The alternator output at idle is maybe to  low to keep up with supply when  the rad fans and lights are on at the same time so it starts draining the power from the battery
« Last Edit: 30 March 2013, 07:07:31 PM by chaparral02 »
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Sargent front & rear seats, Fender eliminator, CA Intergated Rear Led, MRA Vario Screen , Givi mono rack & V46 topbox