Date: 28-09-20  Time: 02:43 AM

Author Topic: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s  (Read 322 times)

b1k3rdude

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Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« on: 15 September 2020, 07:04:30 PM »
Gnasher and I have already chatted at length about this, but I am curious to hear if any other Gen2 owners have have the same issue I am seeing or any other 2nd gear related issues. So here is the history on this -

Riding
  • If I change gears gently, roughly a 1/3 of the time it will go into the neutral instead of 2nd
  • If I make a conscious effort to firmly engage 2nd gear, I can feel the foot lever notch twice (so into neutral and then into second)
  • If I give it some welly away from the lights, so far I have found it goes into second no problem (I assume because I am being far less gentle with the foot lever).

Checks
  • Gear lever rubber – This is in good condition, with little to no wear
  • Gear lever linkage - There is no slack in the gear lever, it is correctly adjusted for my foot/boot.
  • Clutch lever stack -  It appeared to be correctly adjusted and the span adjustment set for my hand size.
  • Rear drive chain  - It is correctly adjusted.
  • Dirt/Old engine oil - The bike has had a recent oil and filter change.

Update
  • Today I moved the lever down one spline on the the gear change shaft, so that its over adjusted and a little bit too low to deliberately give me more upward movement. I also checked and re-adjusted the clutch lever so it was giving me atleast 3mm on full left/right lock. Then spent a few hours riding around.
  • What I found was it 'mostly' removed the 'going into neutral instead of second'. It did not remove the 'knotch' that I was getting every few gear changes. But then on the way home doing 20mph behind a car, I snicked from 1st into second and sure enough, went into fucking neutral, and it was going so well.

So in addition to my other owners request above, What R1 did the engine for the FZ1 come from? so I can check if owner of that year etc have had issue with 2nd gear etc.

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #1 on: 15 September 2020, 09:02:24 PM »
More or less the same, but only ever an issue if short shifting from 1st to 2nd. Also get the same going from 2nd to 1st if ive done any kind of block change ( i know both of the above isnt best practice)


I adjusted the shift lever downwards and it made the upshift worse but the downshift better (and vice versa) which is the opposite to what i expected.  My girlfriend's xj6 is similar and ive never loved yamaha gearboxes and find it agricultural compared to my old vfr, however i dont think there is anything broken. If the box gets confused when going down just feather the clutch out a little and it slots straight in.

Dudeofrude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #2 on: 15 September 2020, 09:22:09 PM »
Can't say I've ever had an issue, and I know it well with my last bike being a thundercat 😬

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #3 on: 15 September 2020, 09:32:39 PM »
  • If I've done any kind of block change
  • If the box gets confused when going down just feather the clutch out a little and it slots straight in.
  • Block change..?
  • I only have an issue going up, and as Im moving all I can do is pull in the clutch and painfully clunk it in to second - which cannot be good for the gearbox components.

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #4 on: 15 September 2020, 09:33:59 PM »
Likewise on a tdm850 but the issue was slipping out of 3rd. Im inclined to agree that despite then occasional hiccup it isn't really an issue on these gen 2s and its never caused me concern

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #5 on: 15 September 2020, 09:35:39 PM »
Can't say I've ever had an issue, and I know it well with my last bike being a thundercat
Well Gnasher did warn me on multiple occasions that the FZ1 is mechanically inferior to the FZS in term of build quality, I just wasn't expecting a gearbox that would try to munch itself.

Im inclined to agree that despite then occasional hiccup it isn't really an issue on these gen 2s and its never caused me concern
So Gen2's dont typically suffer from issues with second gear? That would suggest then that at some point my Gen2 has had some abuse at some point that is only now manifesting itself.
« Last Edit: 15 September 2020, 09:38:09 PM by b1k3rdude »

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #6 on: 15 September 2020, 09:58:53 PM »

Trying to change from say 3rd to first whilst coasting up to the lights.


How many miles has your bike done? Mines only on 13k, sounds a bit daft but have you tried different boots?
« Last Edit: 15 September 2020, 09:59:52 PM by albuquerqueturkey »

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #7 on: 15 September 2020, 10:20:57 PM »
Same 13k, and yeah 2 different sets of sports boots. But fyi said boots have worked just fine on all the other bikes I have ridden in the last 12 months.

Dudeofrude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #8 on: 15 September 2020, 10:31:32 PM »
And to answer your other question is the engine out of a 2004 R1 thats in the Gen2

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #9 on: 16 September 2020, 07:53:42 AM »
If you do some searches you will find a fair few complaints about the gear change from first to second, I think its just a characteristic of the bike, maybe its cause first gear is so tall.

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #10 on: 16 September 2020, 08:32:04 AM »
If you do some searches you will find a fair few complaints about the gear change from first to second, I think its just a characteristic of the bike, maybe its cause first gear is so tall.
Are I was worried that might be the case, but that said a 2 other FZ1 riders said they didnt have an issue with second gear. I really need to test ride a few FZ1's, but as I found over the last 6 months they aren't coming up locally.

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #11 on: 16 September 2020, 08:51:31 AM »
And to answer your other question is the engine out of a 2004 R1 thats in the Gen2
Yep issues with 2nd gear, but the cause seems to be wheelying...
And the fact one of the fork seals on this FZ1 had to be replaced, that seems like this bike suffered the same issue. Well the bike is going to be diagnoses by a premier Yamaha dealer on Thursday, but right off the bat the service tech said when I described the symptoms it sounded like the bike have been clutched/wheelied. If this is the conclusion then the bike is going back to the shop I bought it from for a full refund or at worst refund minus deposit to cover increase in owners on the logbook (yes the shop is being cheeky, but being pragmatic its a damn sight cheaper on my wallet than getting the engine fixed down the road and the mental stress of living with it until it gets repaired.)
« Last Edit: 16 September 2020, 08:53:57 AM by b1k3rdude »

Stainy

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #12 on: 18 September 2020, 10:03:00 AM »
Had mine 7 years and 25k miles.......no issues whatsoever with gearchange. And whilst I don't wheelie except for the occasional accidental one on power, I ride it with a bit of spirit (once it's warmed up  ;) )

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #13 on: 18 September 2020, 02:38:49 PM »
Well I test rode a 2006 FZ1 w/23k at lunchtime and its a different bike gearbox wise. No notch when going between 1st to 2nd, and no problem going into 2nd at anywhere from 2k to 5k. You can tell its a 2006 ECU though, bugger all power at all below 5k compared to the 2009.

So while it means there is def an issue with the 2009 I have and it will be going back. The good news is not all FZ1's as per the replies in this thread and the above test ride have a weird gearbox issue. So will just have to keep an a eye out for another FZ1... :\
« Last Edit: 18 September 2020, 02:47:13 PM by b1k3rdude »

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #14 on: 18 September 2020, 05:31:56 PM »
Did the Yamaha dealer give you any sort of diagnosis?

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #15 on: 19 September 2020, 10:20:35 AM »
Nope despite asking for it before going down there. And its gets better the sales guy even came out with the immortal line 'try changing up to 2nd at higher rpm' to which I replied "Are you serious?, so the takeaway here is you guys don't know whats wrong the bike?" And this is after he said he had seen this issue before and was able to make it happen on demand.

The shop in question was West London Yamaha, spoke to one of their techs yesterday and was told sales guy doesn't know wtf he is talking about. Lesson here, always talk direct to a senior tech. More fool me for stupidly thinking I was going to get treated with some modicum of respect from a so called premier Yamaha stealer. Pointed out their idiotic advice to Yamaha UK, will see what comes of it.
« Last Edit: 19 September 2020, 10:23:21 AM by b1k3rdude »

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #16 on: 20 September 2020, 04:11:41 PM »
So in my epic quest to find a 'good all round FZ1' I test rode another one, this time a 2007 with 15k. Below 3k same notchiness in-between 1st & 2nd and sometimes going into neutral. Below 2k even worse and going into neutral a lot and at 1k the bike did not want to play nice at all. Above 3k (20+ mph) it was mostly fine with only the occasional notchiness.

So thats 3 FZ1's I have test ridden and all but one doesn't want to play nice below 3k going from 1st to 2nd.
« Last Edit: 20 September 2020, 04:16:33 PM by b1k3rdude »

Dudeofrude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #17 on: 20 September 2020, 05:01:28 PM »
Im starting to think you need to widen your options a bit haha clearly and FZ1 is not on the cards for you. Have you not got any other bikes in mind?

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #18 on: 20 September 2020, 08:31:01 PM »
Cheapest to most expensive used -

  • Kawasaki Z1000SX - As fast as the FZ1, plank seat, superior looks, NO center stand.
  • Yamaha Tracer 900 -  Not as pokey as a stock FZS, let alone the FZ1, plank seat, oddball looking bike, HAS center stand.
  • Suzuki GSX-S 1000 - Stupid fast (detuned GSX-R engine) plank seat, oddball looking bike, NO center stand.
  • Kawasaki Versys 1000 - Faster than Tracer, comfortable seat, high seat height, HAS center stand.
The Versys is the most comfortable, but I like the look of the SX and the power it has.
Anyway I have updated the FAQ.
« Last Edit: 20 September 2020, 08:45:36 PM by b1k3rdude »

Dudeofrude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #19 on: 20 September 2020, 09:35:00 PM »
Cheapest to most expensive used -

  • Kawasaki Z1000SX - As fast as the FZ1, plank seat, superior looks, NO center stand.
  • Yamaha Tracer 900 -  Not as pokey as a stock FZS, let alone the FZ1, plank seat, oddball looking bike, HAS center stand.
  • Suzuki GSX-S 1000 - Stupid fast (detuned GSX-R engine) plank seat, oddball looking bike, NO center stand.
  • Kawasaki Versys 1000 - Faster than Tracer, comfortable seat, high seat height, HAS center stand.
The Versys is the most comfortable, but I like the look of the SX and the power it has.
Anyway I have updated the FAQ.

Yeah I agree, I think my next bike is going to be between the z1000sx or the versys 1000.

Not a fan of the suzuki gsx-s.... such an ugly bike. Honda cb1000 is nice and meant to be an adequate replacement for the fz1 (andymancam seems to be quite impressed with his) but for me personally it's not enough if an 'upgrade' for me to warrant spending the price difference

I have been looking around for other replacement but seems the Yamahas are quite hard bikes to replace haha

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #20 on: 20 September 2020, 10:21:59 PM »
  • Honda cb1000 is nice and meant to be an adequate replacement for the fz1 (andymancam seems to be quite impressed with his) but for me personally it's not enough if an 'upgrade' for me to warrant spending the price difference
  • I have been looking around for other replacement but seems the Yamahas are quite hard bikes to replace haha
  • Yep and no fairing, the CBF has faring but is both ugly and slow.
  • The FZS is probably the best bike I have ever owned, followed by the GSF1250. If I could retofit ABS to the FZS I would sold!

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #21 on: 21 September 2020, 02:02:40 PM »
The Versys is the most comfortable,
I forgot all about lowering kits, there is one from the US that includes a foot you can put on after shortening the side stand.

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #22 on: 21 September 2020, 04:06:49 PM »
Youll have to watch those zeds jumping out of 4th gear  :lol

b1k3rdude

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #23 on: 21 September 2020, 04:13:11 PM »
You'll have to watch those zeds jumping out of 4th gear
You mean the plain Z1000 not the Z1000SX?

albuquerqueturkey

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Re: Calling all Gen2 owners: 2nd gear issue/s
« Reply #24 on: 21 September 2020, 06:34:56 PM »
I dont know to be fair, just was told about it once when i thought about buying one...friend has an sx and its a great bit of kit.