Date: 20-10-20  Time: 22:07 PM

Author Topic: Clutch change query  (Read 564 times)

Dman2019

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Clutch change query
« on: 01 September 2020, 05:02:44 PM »
Hi again, i changed the clutch plates and put new springs in it as well, put it all back together as it should be but the clutch leaver is very soft, very little resistance when you let the leaver go.


I adjusted the free play on the handle bar and found out how to do the engine side free play (the screw is as far out as I would dare leave it be) but it hasnt done much to the resistance.


I tried a gentle test as i could on the centre stand and it seemed to change gears ok.


Is this lack of resistance normal? I dont remember the clutch lever being like this when i did the same thing on my previous triumph 900?


Any ideas? Cheers guys

Gnasher

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #1 on: 01 September 2020, 05:39:29 PM »
Is the clutch working correctly i.e. changing gear up and down, pulling away is smooth etc and the free play is correct?



Later

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #2 on: 01 September 2020, 07:48:07 PM »
I havent ridden it yet to test it but on the centre stand it seemed ok.  Ive pullied in the free play as much as i can, will test ride it tomorrow then

Trebus

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #3 on: 02 September 2020, 11:08:54 AM »
I think there is one friction plate that is thicker than the rest. Have they gone back in the right order?

Fazerider

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #4 on: 03 September 2020, 12:26:59 AM »
Did you get the clutch pressure plate on correctly? The six possible positions are not the same. Get it wrong and the base of some of the wells that the springs live in crack. This makes the clutch light, and it’ll slip like crazy when you try to pull away.

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #5 on: 11 September 2020, 07:32:51 PM »
Cheers guys. Looking at the plates I don’t think i have a clutch problem but now having opened the casing and removing it ive opened a can of worms.  I will recheck the compression plate, I used the workshop manual as the my haynes manual has been packed away, needless to say it doesn’t say it needs to be put on in a certain way.


Since then I put back in the original clutch plates to see if that changes things again. They went back in as they are suppose to, all bolts tightened to the torque setting but didnt know about the compression plate.


Without rechecking the compression plate im having problems with the clutch cable free play, i have adjusted both the handle bar free play and engine/clutch free play. Ive adjusted it bit by bit but the bike is pulling when the clutch lever is pulled in.  Ive loosened the settings to the max on both sides but its still pulling without releasing the handle.


Any one know what the usual settings are? Cheers

Fazerider

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #6 on: 12 September 2020, 09:28:32 AM »
There’s a ball bearing that lives at the tip of the pushrod (clutch end). It’s very easy for this to escape while you change the plates. If that’s happened it’ll make clutch adjustment impossible.

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #7 on: 13 September 2020, 12:50:13 PM »
Thanks for the suggest, ive had another go at this and checked and the ball bearing is there.  Im at a bit of a loss now.
Its all bolted up as per the torque settings for the workshop manual but when i press the clutch lever it doesnt seem to engage, my thinking is if its spring related now.  I looked at u tube and have attached pics how the clutch looks.  Mine seems to be sticking out further, as you can see the clutch plates seem a bit recessed by mine stick out just over the edge of the basket.
In the video he reuses the 6 clutch springs and the other spring and it all goes back on the same way.  As far as I can tell they use 9 clutch plates the same as me but mine doesn’t look like theirs in both videos

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #8 on: 13 September 2020, 12:53:03 PM »
My clutch, do i need to change the springs and the judder spring thats on the inside of the clutch after the fist friction plate and steel plate? Any ideas? Cheers guys

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #9 on: 18 September 2020, 06:28:56 AM »
Hi guys, I don't have access to my haynes manual and want to check what torque setting that the compression springs that go onto the pressure plate are.
I want to compare it to the workshop manual in case its wrong
The work shop manual says 8Nm, Haynes says?


Gnasher

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #10 on: 18 September 2020, 09:17:25 AM »
I havent ridden it yet to test it but on the centre stand it seemed ok.  Ive pullied in the free play as much as i can, will test ride it tomorrow then

I havent ridden it yet to test it but on the centre stand it seemed ok.  Ive pullied in the free play as much as i can, will test ride it tomorrow then

What happened during your test ride?
Later

Fazerider

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #11 on: 18 September 2020, 11:45:45 AM »

I  have always used the 8Nm torque setting.


I’m going to go back to my original diagnosis, the pressure plate is probably on in one of its wrong positions. I’ve never understood why they don’t warn about this in manuals. Perhaps they just like selling replacement plates.


Checking is easy:
See if the friction plates have any free play. If they can be moved slightly up and down the slots then the plate is on wrong.
If it is wrong, and has had the spring bolts tightened when in that position, take it out and inspect the bases of the wells that house the springs. If they’re cracked or broken you’ll need a new pressure plate.
Refit in a different position and press the pressure plate with one hand, if the plates are loose still, refit 60º further round. When the pressure from your hand actually squeezes the plates together it’s the correct position.

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #12 on: 18 September 2020, 12:05:59 PM »
I havent ridden it yet to test it but on the centre stand it seemed ok.  Ive pullied in the free play as much as i can, will test ride it tomorrow then


What happened during your test ride?


I didn't need a test drive in the end, I just tryed the bike in the garage pulling away etc.  I put in 1st and it pulling with the clutch lever fully in.  I did this several times adjusting the free play, with the free play fully slack it still pulled away the clutch leaver fully in.

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #13 on: 18 September 2020, 12:09:49 PM »

I  have always used the 8Nm torque setting.


I’m going to go back to my original diagnosis, the pressure plate is probably on in one of its wrong positions. I’ve never understood why they don’t warn about this in manuals. Perhaps they just like selling replacement plates.


Checking is easy:
See if the friction plates have any free play. If they can be moved slightly up and down the slots then the plate is on wrong.
If it is wrong, and has had the spring bolts tightened when in that position, take it out and inspect the bases of the wells that house the springs. If they’re cracked or broken you’ll need a new pressure plate.
Refit in a different position and press the pressure plate with one hand, if the plates are loose still, refit 60º further round. When the pressure from your hand actually squeezes the plates together it’s the correct position.


I will have another look that this, when I put it on there is a bit of free play/wiggle room,  I will go systematically turning it around. 


When I tightened them up to 8Nm the clutch is solid.  When I tightened the bolts up about half way I and pulled the clutch leaver you can see the clutch moving as it should.


Thanks for the help again guys


Fazerider

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #14 on: 18 September 2020, 02:01:28 PM »

Sorry, having just re-read what the symptoms are, I think my last suggestion was wrong.
You say you've loosened adjustments at the lever and sprocket cover when they actually need tightening.
The lever adjustment admittedly, could be called loosening because you're turning the adjuster anticlockwise to tighten the cable. The bottom adjustment needs to go clockwise to achieve the same effect at the lever.
Also, check the sprocket cover and crankcase are clean along the mating surfaces before screwing them together tight. Dirt or looseness there will increase the distance the actuator needs to move before it starts pushing on the rod.

Gnasher

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #15 on: 18 September 2020, 03:34:47 PM »

I didn't need a test drive in the end, I just tryed the bike in the garage pulling away etc.  I put in 1st and it pulling with the clutch lever fully in.  I did this several times adjusting the free play, with the free play fully slack it still pulled away the clutch leaver fully in.


When you say "pulled away" do you mean the rear wheel is still driving?  If so can you apply the rear brake without the engine stalling? 

Why did you change the clutch in the first place and what clutch did you fit?
Later

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #16 on: 19 September 2020, 06:00:04 PM »
Some good news it was the way the pressure plate sits, I took the first plate off so i could see and then started turning the pressure plate around. On the third turn it sat further in. Put the plate back in tightened up the springs and pulled the lever and it looks like its moving properly.


Bad news is the pressure plate is damaged and a new one is being ordered the pressure has cracked the lugs that the springs sit in.


This may be why the clutch wouldn’t disengage when I pulled the clutch lever in.  I tried this again with the pressure plate in the correct position and again the clutch wont disengage then the clutch lever is pulled in.


Next question set up....


I can’t remember how the clutch felt before I started playing with the free play.  Before I put the new pressure plate in and I dont want to break this one as they are expensive any ideas on set up?


On another site i saw some one say to screw the engine free play bolt in until you feel resistance and then do a quarter turn back.


As it currently stands it needs quite a but of force to move the clutch plates.  How much movement should there be on the plates? Watching it the outer friction plate moves to just beyond the clutch basket.

To answer the other questions I have put back in the original clutch plates as they look ok.  I thought it was a clutch problem as I took the gf on the back of the bike (not a small girl) and im not a small guy, any way after the last trip and driving up the lane to the garage with her on the back I had to gun the engine [/size]and play with the clutch as we were wheel spinning and reving quite highly.  On the other ride outs all without her i had been having an issue trying to get up to high speed quickly i.e. going down the motorway slip road to the motorway, low speeds all fine but getting up to 70ish mph quickly it would struggle.  I thought it was clutch issues from all the weight of me and my gf struggling to get the bike up the lane.   Hindsight is a wonderful thing. [size=78%]

Fazerider

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #17 on: 20 September 2020, 01:09:29 AM »

I don’t think the pushrod can be set far enough in to cause damage when refitting pressure plate, but I’d wind the adjuster on the sprocket cover back so the you can tell when you have the plate on correctly.
The movement of the pressure plate in use is very small, a couple of mm perhaps.
 
Are these new springs the OE Yamaha ones? Many people, myself included, have tried aftermarket heavy duty ones which are far too strong and it makes the clutch very tiring to operate.
The Yamaha springs are just strong enough to do the job, but weaken over the years. That, or the use of unsuitable engine oil, causes the clutch to slip under load.

Dman2019

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #18 on: 25 September 2020, 12:30:33 PM »
Good news all fixed and working back to normal


Lessons learn't:
1. Workshop manual doesn't go into much detail, Haynes manual more helpful
2. Pressure plate fits in a specific way
3. Somehow I got the plates mixed up which affected the judder spring! correct plate for the judder spring and all is good


Thanks for your help

mtread

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Re: Clutch change query
« Reply #19 on: 25 September 2020, 02:05:36 PM »
Every cock up up is a learning experience :D


Glad you got it sorted